Need help with #5 Jack plane recommendation?

[Mike Allen1010]

I would like to add a # 5 Jack plane to use primarily for preliminary surfacing of stock -- removing plainer marks etc. I have a blue steel replacement blade from Stuart (woodworking tools from Japan) I plan to use.

LN and LV are out of my price range right now so I'm trying to decide between an old Stanley or a new Wood River (Chinese?) planes from Woodcraft. I've restored a number of old metal planes and have no problem with lapping the bottom, truing up the frog and tote repairs if necessary.

The problem is despite my best efforts at research, I can't figure out how to recognize which of the old Stanley, Millers Falls, etc. types would be best. I'm not looking for a collector -- just an excellent user. I would like to have a lateral adjustment lever and what I guess is the "bedrock" style frog that is adjustable without removing the blade. Mostly I'm interested in whichever of the seemingly endless variety of frog/mating surface designs will offer best support for the blade and reduce the risk of chattering etc?

I have a Stanley with "Bailey” embossed on the toe, rounded sides and the kidney shaped hole in the cap iron. I use a Hock iron and have it set up as more of a smoother and it works great. I also have one of the earlier Wood River planes which seems to be a little bit heavier (which I like) and after some tuning it also works great, especially for rougher work.

I could buy one of the v3 Wood River planes which I think are ~$160 and I'm reasonably confident I can make it do what I want, especially with the blue steel blade. However, if I could identify the "right" type Stanley that would be less expensive and with some tuning would work as well/better that would be my preferred option.

I'm confused by all the different "type" Stanley's and the wide range in prices on the mega-auction site. I don't know the difference between for example, the round side and flat sided designs (does this matter?) and why planes that look to be in pretty similar condition to me sometimes sell for $50 and others for $300 -- what gives?

I don't mind paying a fair price for a quality tool and investing some time and effort in restoration and fettling - I just honestly don't know what type/model vintage plane I should be looking for.

I'm sure this is a really naïve question and some differences are a matter of personal preference, but I would really appreciate any advice or recommendations about what are some of the better types/model users I should look for and how I could recognize them by pictures/descriptions etc.?

Thanks in advance!

All the best, Mike

[Frank Drew]

Mike,

I've got a Record 05 and have put many miles on it over the years; you could probably find one in good condition on eBay. IMO it's at least equivalent in quality to the early Bailey/Stanley planes (minus the Rosewood handles.)

[Dale Cruea]

I don't know much about type or do I really care.
I see a Stanley plane and if I like it or need it I buy it.
I could be wrong here however I don't think you can go wrong with an old cast iron Stanley if all the parts are there and working.
Some types appear to be desired over others but I don't think any older Stanley should be ignored.
I have (by pure luck) a 607 style unknown, 2 Baileys and #4 and #5, style unknown. All work as they should.

[Charlie Buchanan]

I have restored several Keen-Kutter K5's (not KK5's) that I bought in the $30 range. I think solid K5's are often a great value. Add a good iron and chipbreaker and they make first class working planes at half the cost of a Bedrock 605. They have the same frog design as the roundtop Bedrock. But for true jack plane work of flattening stock (radiused edge on a relatively rank-set iron) a Stanley Bailey #5 is just fine. There is no explaining the wide ranges of prices on auction sites. Sometimes has to do with rarity but often with the expertise and credibility of the seller in describing and picturing the items.

[John Meade]

I will second Frank's recommendation...Record 05. Bought mine on ebay a few years ago. It is heavy, flat, and holds settings well. I also have a LN 05. It is too pretty to use hard.

[Don Dorn]

Obviously everyone has their opinion, but mine is to go with an old Stanley (or Record) #5 for your needs. They are relatively inexpensive because they are about the most common next to the #4. For a jack plane, I wouldn't even bother fettleing to the nth degree as it's supposed to remove larger amounts of wood and a fettled or premium plane isn't necessary for that. You need a sharp iron and a well fitting chipbreaker, but outside of that, I wouldn't worry a great deal. I would be more choosey about a smoothing plane.

[Matthew Hills]

I've got a relatively recent Stanley #5, a vintage Keen Kutter, and a LV low-angle jack.
All of them work just fine, especially for preliminary surfacing.

I probably wouldn't buy a bedrock (too expensive, unless you just like the idea of buying that)
I avoid cracked castings and major problems with handles/knobs.

Otherwise, I'd just check something like WaltQ's site for his auction finds. His notes on condition are pretty good, and avoid a bit of the uncertainty with buying from ebay:
http://www.brasscityrecords.com/toolworks/new%20tools.html

Matt

[Matthew N. Masail]

I don't know types. but I have a Woodriver no.3 and it's great plane, really really well made. I get it to take tissue shaving with no tearout against the grain (chip breaker can be set close enough) with no modifications. I am planning on lapping to sole but it doesn’t need it.

[Ralph Boumenot]

The wood river planes are the closest you'll get to a Lie Nielsen. According to Deneb they made castings of LN planes to make the wood river planes. If you compare them they look like twins.
ralph

[Charles Bjorgen]

This link can be studied to tell you about the changes in Stanley planes over the years.
https://home.comcast.net/~stanleyplanes/planes101/typing/typing.htm
Note that there was an improvement in frog construction with the Type 9 planes although the frog adjustment screw came along in Type 10. With regular Stanleys you still need to remove the blade to loosen the frog screws in order to adjust the frog position. The Bedrock style frog can be adjusted without removing the blade although, frankly, I don't believe that's a big deal. One of the best Jack planes I ever owned was a Millers Falls no. 14. Sold it because my Bedrock 605 does the job for me. But if you have experience with the Wood River line of planes, maybe that's your answer.

[Kenneth Speed]

You don't HAVE to be overly fussy about a jack plane, they're not the finesse tools that smoothers are. I just bought a nice Miller's Falls jack plane on Ebay for $25.00 plus shipping. I have yet to tune it up and sharpen the blade but excluding my LV bevel up jack it is clearly the heaviest of my now overly large collection of jack planes. I honestly can't say that I can recommend a Miller's Falls plane right now inasmuch as I have yet to use it but I think a plane such as the one I just bought is a good bet.

Ken

[Zach Dillinger]

The cheapest, nastiest looking old Stanley will do just as well as the prettiest, shiniest LN for jack plane duties, especially with that replacement iron. Flat sole is next to meaningless on this type of plane (as with most planes, but I don't want to get into that), don't worry about it. Just about any #5 from a flea market or antique store will be fine. Save the $300 (or $160) for a good smoother or for wood.

[Harold Burrell]

The cheapest, nastiest looking old Stanley will do just as well as the prettiest, shiniest LN for jack plane duties, especially with that replacement iron. Flat sole is next to meaningless on this type of plane (as with most planes, but I don't want to get into that), don't worry about it. Just about any #5 from a flea market or antique store will be fine. Save the $300 (or $160) for a good smoother or for wood.

Agreed....

[Jim Koepke]

I would like to add a # 5 Jack plane to use primarily for preliminary surfacing of stock -- removing plainer marks etc. I have a blue steel replacement blade from Stuart (woodworking tools from Japan) I plan to use.

I am not familiar with the blue steel blade. For this purpose, an old Bailey style plane with its original blade would likely be fine. If you do longer pieces, you might find a #7 or #8 a better choice.


LN and LV are out of my price range right now so I'm trying to decide between an old Stanley or a new Wood River (Chinese?) planes from Woodcraft. I've restored a number of old metal planes and have no problem with lapping the bottom, truing up the frog and tote repairs if necessary.

The problem is despite my best efforts at research, I can't figure out how to recognize which of the old Stanley, Millers Falls, etc. types would be best. I'm not looking for a collector -- just an excellent user. I would like to have a lateral adjustment lever and what I guess is the "bedrock" style frog that is adjustable without removing the blade. Mostly I'm interested in whichever of the seemingly endless variety of frog/mating surface designs will offer best support for the blade and reduce the risk of chattering etc?

The round side Bedrock planes require the blade to be removed to adjust the frog. For me it is a lot less hassle to buy another plane than it is to be constantly adjusting the frog. YMMV

There are four #5 Stanley/Bailey planes and an LN #62 in my shop currently. They all get used. They are set up from taking see through shavings to removing enough stock that almost requires me to hitch it up to my truck and have the wife hit the gas when it is ready to cut.


I have a Stanley with "Bailey” embossed on the toe, rounded sides and the kidney shaped hole in the cap iron. I use a Hock iron and have it set up as more of a smoother and it works great. I also have one of the earlier Wood River planes which seems to be a little bit heavier (which I like) and after some tuning it also works great, especially for rougher work.

I could buy one of the v3 Wood River planes which I think are ~$160 and I'm reasonably confident I can make it do what I want, especially with the blue steel blade. However, if I could identify the "right" type Stanley that would be less expensive and with some tuning would work as well/better that would be my preferred option.

I'm confused by all the different "type" Stanley's and the wide range in prices on the mega-auction site. I don't know the difference between for example, the round side and flat sided designs (does this matter?) and why planes that look to be in pretty similar condition to me sometimes sell for $50 and others for $300 -- what gives?

I don't mind paying a fair price for a quality tool and investing some time and effort in restoration and fettling - I just honestly don't know what type/model vintage plane I should be looking for.

I'm sure this is a really naïve question and some differences are a matter of personal preference, but I would really appreciate any advice or recommendations about what are some of the better types/model users I should look for and how I could recognize them by pictures/descriptions etc.?

Thanks in advance!

All the best, Mike

This confuses me. Do you already have a pair of #5 sized planes? You may want to consider something else like a #3 or #4 for the smoothing tasks, a #6 or larger for "preliminary work" and a jointer for larger pieces.

As to types, those are just the changes in manufacturing over time. My preference is for planes after the 1870 and before the 1930s. It doesn't mean they are any better than earlier or later models. It is my personal preference.

I have had a few Bedrocks and have sold them. The Bailey design works fine. My most expensive #5 currently in my shop cost a whopping $16.58 with shipping. It was complete. My cheapest cost $4 and was missing some parts. One of the others cost $10 at an estate sale. The latest was an auction buy a neighbor bought for me because he knew I was into planes. It set me back $10, the broken handle and hang hole were at no extra charge.

My most recent purchase was for a #8 with a broken frog, it set me back $5.

There are a lot of great planes available for the finding. Just yesterday we stopped into an antique store with a complete #40, the handle was loose and it was pretty dirty. I passed on it at $20 or $25. I just don't need it.

Here is a listing of Bedrock types:

http://www.antique-used-tools.com/brtypes.htm

jtk

[Mike Allen1010]

Thanks a lot for all the information and advice!

I guess I'm back to searching for pretty much any vintage #5 in decent shape. It sounds like I can't really go too wrong here. It seems like I'm hearing most of the "type" differences are more cosmetic than functional.

One thing I still don't understand -- the difference between the flat side and round sided Stanley's, are they just from different time periods or were both types produced simultaneously? If both styles were produced simultaneously is there any fundamental difference between the two, or was it just to give customers some kind of a cosmetic choice?

It seems like in the "type studies" I've seen they always show the round sided planes. I'm probably just making this more complicated than it needs to be.

Thanks again for all the help and information!

All the best,Mike

[Greg Wease]

Flat sides are found on Bed Rock planes manufactured after 1910; round-sided Bed Rocks were made from 1898 to 1910. The frog to bed features were the same on all but only the flat-sided ones allowed frog adjustment with the blade and lever cap in place. To add to the confusion, Stanley made round-sided Bed Rock planes for Simonds Hardware (Keen Kutter) and Winchester after 1910. All Bailey planes have round sides. Bob Kaune has a good Bed Rock type study here:

http://www.antique-used-tools.com/brtypes.htm

I have quite a few different "types" if you want to see them Mike.
Greg

[Jim Koepke]

I guess I'm back to searching for pretty much any vintage #5 in decent shape. It sounds like I can't really go too wrong here. It seems like I'm hearing most of the "type" differences are more cosmetic than functional.

My preference as stated is for the types before the 1930s. There are a few reasons for this. First, my preference if for a low knob. Sometime in the 1930s a ring was added to the casting around the base of the front knob. It is only compatible with tall knobs unless one wants to turn their own.

Also changed in the 1930s was the frog casting. The ogee style frog has less machined surface to mate with the frog. There were other cost reductions. In my opinion, the quality suffered due to the cost cutting in this time period. Many of the planes after the 1930s are fine, but some not so good ones slipped through.

The biggest change from the round side Bedrocks to the square side was the method of fastening the frog to the base. The early method used screws. Thus the need to remove the blade to adjust the frog. The later Bedrocks used pins to hold the frog. This allowed screws on either side of the adjusting screw to jam the pins to hold the frog in place. Loosening these allowed the frog to move without removing the blade. How ever, the seating for the frog was slopped and would change the position of the blade when adjusted. This required reseting the blade depth before continuing one's work.

I also like the round side look of the Bailey style planes as opposed to the squared sides of the later Bedrocks and LNs.

jtk