Alcohol content in soaker

[Jerry Rhoads]

Hello Everyone
A long timre ago I read(somewhere) something on testing the alcohol content in soaking tub. I think it was by weighing
Could not find it.
Getting ready to do a bit of rough turning (been a while and it looks like I may need some by years end.
I did weigh some of the (probably mostly water) soaking tub
I used a glass bottle (ok it was a beer bottle), filled to a mark near the top. It weighed 1 pound 2.4 ounces
Water filled to the same mark weighed 1 pound 3.4 ounces
DNA out of the can weighed in at 1 pound 1 ounce.
Did not weigh the beer before drinking, rinsing, and drying.:)
Is it time to get rid of the stuff in the tub?

Thanks in advance
Jerry

[Scott Hackler]

Jerry,

I have never "dumped" the DNA soak container, but rather just keep adding more as the level gets lower. I recently roughed out a monster bowl and added about 4 gallons to my soak container to bring it back up to the orignial level. I would guess that there is about 6 gallons in my container now. Seems to work still and from the occational cut or boo boo on my hands, I can attest that the alcohol content is still fairly strong! :)

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Jerry,
I really never get rid of the old stuff. After you soak enough bowls it gets really good to drink. Say, Huh??!! and move on. Anyway, as I was saying, I never throw it away, I just add new to keep the tub at my desired level. I do have a smaller tub with some really blackened brew that I save for walnut. I haven't seen any results that tell me it is any less effective. As long as you keep the tub well sealed I believe the mix never becomes more water than alcohol.

[Jerry Rhoads]

Thanks Scott,
adding more to it all the time is what I have been doing. But it has been a very long time since I used it.
Wondering if I should start afresh

[Hilel Salomon]

Scott,

Please don't let a cut or "boo boo" come into contact with DNA. The stuff is highly dangerous. In fact, even without such entrance points, it can get into your blood. It is really best to use gloves in handling bowls soaked in DNA.
If you google the question, you'll see why I say that.

Hilel

[Jerry Rhoads]

Thanks Faust (BURP, very little alcohol)
I stuck a 3/4" x 10" steel bar in it. held over lighter, did not flame
Stuck a stick of 3/4 x 1" walnut into it, flamed a little then quit. took a while for the rest to evaporate.
Remembering there was something said about dripping on concrete and seeing how long it takes to evaporate
I dripped it in three places (different size spots) after 32 minutes three are wet 1 is damp(this one was smaller the the fresh
Dripped a spot of fresh DNA on floor also. After 4 minutes could barely tell after 8 minutes when I remembered to check, it was completly gone

IT IS TIME!!
Though it still smells a little like alcohol
I do have a bucket for Walnut. It may still be good as it is sealed better. May save liquid for adding to it. Nah I don't think it is any good at all

[ray hampton]

is dirty alcohol safe to use in a alcohol burner or not
try dipping a spoon into it and burning the spoon full / hold over a bucket of water to be safe

[Phil Landwer]

Scott,

Please don't let a cut or "boo boo" come into contact with DNA. The stuff is highly dangerous. In fact, even without such entrance points, it can get into your blood. It is really best to use gloves in handling bowls soaked in DNA.
If you google the question, you'll see why I say that.

Hilel


Help us out, Hilel.
I did some Googling, and didn't find what you're suggesting.
I found this, however:
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem03/chem03844.htm

[Bernie Weishapl]

I have had the same tub of DNA for 3 1/2 yrs. I just keep adding. Still works.

[Prashun Patel]

Hilel, can you pls send me the link yr talking about? I tried a couple googles and couldn't find the info.

It seems counterintuitive, since ethanol is a commonly used disinfectant and antimicrobial solvent. I would have thought that most bad things in the wood would be killed.

[Scott Hackler]

Guys I believe what Hilel is talking about is DNA with high Methenol and various other toxic content (which is harmful if injested or long term exposure to skin or open wounds). Most of the DNA sold around here has a low methanol contest and is no more harmful than your standard paint thinner, lacquer thinner, acetone, gasoline and all other chemicals that you shouldn't be soaking your hands in OR drinking!

Unfortunately there are areas and brands that sell "industrial" DNA blends that are very high in Methanol and other harmfull additives. I would steer clear of those brands. For those you really need to use protection, for the others.... common sense should be fine. Most DNA will flash evaporate right off your skin before any significant amount gets absorbed into your system.

Read the label and apply a dose of common sense, don't soak your hands in it and don't drink it. :)

[Jay Jolliffe]

Maybe a stupid question & since I'm new to turning why would you soak the rough forms in DNA ?

[Fred Belknap]

Maybe a stupid question & since I'm new to turning why would you soak the rough forms in DNA ?

Jay that is a valid question. Rough turned forms are soaked in DNA to primarily speed up the drying process. It will speed up the drying from several months to about one month (for me). Some return in about two weeks, it depends a lot on the thickness of the rough turned object. It also seems to help with cracking and warping but I have had a few that cracked and all have warped to some extent. The rough turnings are generally soaked overnight or more depending how thick they are. Hope this gives you a quick answer. There are other way of doing about the same thing but this seems to be about the easiest and best system.

[Jerry Rhoads]

Hello Everyone nad thank you
I have been very busy and have not been here for awhile
I did not throw the weak DNA away. I did a freeze test. Put it in the freezer over night, did not freeze so it must be somewhat potent
Added it to my Walnut batch and started a new batch.

[David Gilbert]

I have used DNA drying in the past but don't use it now. I think it's relatively expensive and prefer to consume the alcohol I buy rather than using it on my turnings.

Alcohol mixes with water and exchanges with the water in our roughed out bowls and thus helps them dry more quickly. This means that as your alcohol solution is reused the water content will rise. I found a reference (http://alcoholsoaking.blogspot.com/2006/11/determining-alcohol-percentage.html) that details how to measure the alcohol content of your solution without any complicated equipment. This reference states that to be effective the alcohol content needs to be over 60% or 120 proof. It was my understanding that alcohol won't burn when it is less than 50% in concentration so you can CAREFULLY check your solution in that way. For those who really want to know more, look up "proof" in Wikipedia for all the details. By the way, a freeze test won't tell you much since most wines won't freeze either and they are only 12 - 14% alcohol by volume.

I followed the procedure from the link above and found that the alcohol out of the can was about 93% and the concentration dropped to 55% when I dried a large platter. One of the interesting properties of anhydrous ethanol is that it will pull water out of the air so you want it keep it covered and sealed whenever possible. All you need to measure the concentration is a small bottle and a balance to weigh the solution and a calculator or a spreadsheet.

Denatured alcohol is ethanol and is denatured by adding a variety of poisonous materials to it. I believe that it's denatured so we don't have to pay tax on the alcohol. It all depends on what the manufacturer wants to use. Looking at their MSDS sheets may give you an indication of these. The materials that I believe are used are methanol, diesel fuel, toluene, and other things that are not good to consume. Note that since most of us don't throw out our used materials that these poisons will concentrate and eventually evaporate along with the DNA. My philosophy is to keep my exposure to these sorts of materials to a minimum but our bodies are very good at destroying trace materials that we ingest. Drinking DNA will almost certainly get you to the hospital and blindness could result so don't drink or soak your hands in it.

One of the reasons that I haven't been using DNA drying is that I like to turn my green wood to final thickness and then let them warp and distort. Yes, I do have some that crack but it's faster and cheaper than the alcohol drying. I hope that two cents here has contributed to the discussion.

Cheers,
David

[Mel Fulks]

You are right .Its all about the taxes .I have heard that medical drinkable alcohol has a bitter substance added so you won't enjoy it, some evil minds out there. The DNA commonly sold now definitely will not dissolve shellac flakes very well, I don't know if that is because it now has some water or whether it has something to do with how it is made poisonous. I have to buy Behkol now. Don't know if the change effects the purpose for which you use it.

[Jerry Rhoads]

Thank you very much David
I too turn a lot of bowls to finish from green wood. But also re-turn a lot of bowls.
For larger bowls the re-turned ones sell better

Thanks again
Jerry