New Tool Purchase - Need Your Opinion

[Caleb James]

I just received my first new saw from Bad Axe Toolworks (Hybrid Dovetail/Small Tenon). The saw cuts and looks great. My only reservation, it was received with a small chip on the top horn. I guess I am revealing one of my personality flaws but considering the price of the saw, should I try to look past this aesthetic issue and just focus on the functionality and performance. Thanks.

[Adam Neat]

I would certainly contact them, damaged in shipping perhaps?

It wouldnt bother me too much If I got a bit of a discount but I wouldnt want to pay full price for damaged goods, even if its only cosmetic.

[Gary Herrmann]

Talk to Mark. I'm sure he'll be responsive. Replacing the tote could take awhile though.

[george wilson]

You should get a perfect saw like you paid for.

[Chris Griggs]

+1 what everyone else said. You'll bang it up on your own after a while, but it should definitely be perfect when new. The maker wouldn't have it any other way.

[Derek Cohen]

I just received my first new saw from Bad Axe Toolworks. The saw cuts and looks great. My only reservation, it was received with a small chip on the top horn. I guess I am revealing one of my personality flaws but considering the price of the saw, should I try to look past this aesthetic issue and just focus on the functionality and performance. Thanks.

Caleb and all

Please do not make this type of post in future. The answer is an obvious one: if you are unhappy with something, Rule One is to speak to the Seller. Posting the question here may harm the reputation of someone unnecessarily. On the other hand, if you did this and was dismissed out of hand, then we would want to know that.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Paul Saffold]

+1 to Derek's post. I want to say more but will surely regret it if I do. I see you have 9 postings and will assume you are inexperienced.
Paul

[Tim Null]

I purchased three Bad Axe saws from Mark. He is the absolute best person I have ever dealt with as far as customer service. I don't want anyone to think otherwise, based on this post. I am pretty sure that the poster did not intend this, but you know how these things go. That is why Derek stepped in. I am positive that if Mark knew that the saw arrived to the customer in less than perfect condition he would rectify the situation ASAP. Period. So just give him a call or e-mail, he will take care of it.

[Caleb James]

Well yes inexperienced would be putting it mildly. It was never my intention to offend anyone. I just figured that I would pose an innocent question (or at least I thought it was) before I brought my concern to Mark. I highly doubt his stellar reputation would be sullied by a mere 9 poster (10 now). I'll refrain from bothering anyone until I have more experience.

[steven c newman]

Just want to commend the "gang' on an outstanding job of setting a newbie straight. You just can't these types of posters going around and just asking any old questions, right. After all, they have no other way to know better than to ask these types of questions. Jump right on them, before they actually LEARN how to do things, right on!

[Sean Richards]

Caleb you just keep on posting and asking questions - only way to learn. Some people on this forum take themselves very seriously but don't let that put you off.

[Sean Richards]

Caleb and all

Please do not make this type of post in future ...
Derek

Derek are you a moderator on this forum?

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I just received my first new saw from Bad Axe Toolworks. The saw cuts and looks great.

I LOVE his saws.... I have another on order. So, which saw do you have?


My only reservation, it was received with a small chip on the top horn. I guess I am revealing one of my personality flaws but considering the price of the saw, should I try to look past this aesthetic issue and just focus on the functionality and performance. Thanks.

This type of question comes up every now and then, and there are usually two opinions.



If it works, and does not affect functionality, then don't worry about it.
You paid for a new undamaged item, so you should have one.


I can assure you that the saw did not leave with the knowledge that the saw was anything less than almost perfect. Contact Bad Axe and let them know. You will be taken care of.... I paid extra money for my Bad Axe saws so that they would be pretty. I take care of my stuff, so they should stay pretty, even when used. There is no shame in expecting a handle with no chip in the handle.

So, ignoring the handle defect, how do you like the saw? How does it cut? Is it easy to start?

I have a Doc Holiday that is probably the easiest of my similar saws to start. One might argue that my saw cuts so well that it made me lazy. After using it exclusively for a while, I found it difficult to immediately start a cut using my Lie Nielsen saw; so I cut a few dovetails with my Lie Nielsen just to get back into the swing of things.

[Derek Cohen]

Derek are you a moderator on this forum?

One does not need to be a moderator to respond to posts that have the potential for harming others. This was not aimed personally at Caleb, but at the "type of post" he made. I hope you continue posting, and lots, Caleb. I should have softened the message to you a little - I did not look at the number of posts you had made ... although this has little to do with it. I assumed that if you knew enough to purchase a high quality saw such as the Bad Axe, then you were familiar enough with forums and etiquette.

I understand your disappointment in the condition of the saw not being perfect when received (we have all been there) but, as others have stated, this is more likely a consequence of damage in transit. It happens. We are familiar with the amazing after sales service records of companies such as Lee Valley and Lie Nielsen. They take great pride in how they manage complaints. Everyone experiences complaints, even these great companies. It is how they deal with them that makes them great. To not give the Seller a chance to sort it out first is to do them a disservice. To place a complaint on the web before they can deal with it makes them look bad. Unnecessarily so.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Curt Putnam]

Caleb, Mark is a stand up guy. Deal with him directly.

As to posting - the reason Derek jumped in is that most folks lose the context of a post and only remember that there was a complaint. They never learn whether it was resolved or not. For an outfit the size of Mark's, a few internet rumors could prove to be fatal. So the basic rule is: deal with the manufacturer or store directly and only post a complaint if the issue is not resolved.

[Sean Richards]

One does not need to be a moderator to respond to posts that have the potential for harming others. This was not aimed personally at Caleb, but at the "type of post" he made.
Derek

How that original post could have any potential for harming anyone's reputation is beyond me.

[John Lanciani]

How that original post could have any potential for harming anyone's reputation is beyond me.

I agree. When questions like the OP's can't be asked on this forum it becomes useless. If a manufacturer or retailer's reputation is so weak that one innocent question can harm it then so be it.

[David Keller NC]

I just received my first new saw from Bad Axe Toolworks. The saw cuts and looks great. My only reservation, it was received with a small chip on the top horn. I guess I am revealing one of my personality flaws but considering the price of the saw, should I try to look past this aesthetic issue and just focus on the functionality and performance. Thanks.

Caleb - A clarification question. Mark restores antique saws as well as making brand new ones out of raw materials. Did your post mean "new, made by Mark" or "my first new-to-me saw from Mark"? There's a substantial difference; most antique saws that are tuned up to work well generally have some cosmetic defects that don't affect function. Otherwise, a cosmetically perfect saw is worth considerably more as a collector's item, and doesn't usually get sold as a user tool.

[Carl Beckett]

I should have softened the message to you a little - I did not look at the number of posts you had made ... although this has little to do with it.



Hi Derek. I always read your posts and have learned much much about woodworking from you. Clearly a senior member of the community and a significant contributor to the knowledge base.

Respectfully - I have to say that your post came across harsh to me. The underlying content was valid of course, but the delivery - to me - was harsh.




I assumed that if you knew enough to purchase a high quality saw such as the Bad Axe, then you were familiar enough with forums and etiquette.

Derek

Again - respectfully - I usually assume just the OPPOSITE. That this forum isnt made up of IT professionals, but members that dont even use power tools no less!!! I think to assume full understanding of internet forum etiquette - especially when they are so many and varied - is too big of an assumption.

I do understand the point being made and it is valid. We all learn somewhere/somehow, and I would hate for this forum to be seen as hostile to new members.....

[Caleb James]

I just wanted to post an update before we lay this thread to rest. I have spoken to Mark at Bad Axe who has stated unequivocally that he will fix any problems I may have. I never doubted this. I asked for opinions and I got them in spades. The aim of my original question was never meant to be malicious and I appreciate those that understood this. Thanks to all for putting up with a "green" woodworker.

[Derek Cohen]

All

My original post may have appeared directed only at Caleb, but if you return to it you will note that it was adressed to everyone. It was intended to be a request that in future forumites should direct dissatisfactions about new tools first to the Seller before posting to a forum.

My apologies if this came across as heavy-handed. That is not my style, as most of you know.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tim Null]

To Caleb and all other interested readers:

First to Caleb,

I would like to say that I apologize for any harshness that you may have felt from the response to this post, mine included. Not my intent and I know it was not Derek's. He is one of the most considerate and patient people here. He will go the extra mile to explain any technique, etc. that most others would simply tell you to search for. He will then go out to his shop and take pictures to further illustrate the proper procedure. Even if a lengthy post was just done one the topic.

I only post when I have something to add, which is not often. LOL I spend most of my time benefiting from the vast knowledge freely offered here.

Most of the posts that begin with a problem with an item are either the result of no response from the maker or poor QC and the poster is asking if it is worth the hassle of trying to make it right. I am sure that was not Caleb's intent. Like me, the thought of sending your new beauty away after just getting it, and after a long wait too, is almost too much to bear. I waited almost 3 months for my saws, during the height of Mark's backlog. Now the wait is better, from what I hear.

The concern by Derek an myself is that the post would be construed as a similar one or would degenerate into one, by no intent of the poster. So Derek jumped in to try to nip it inb the bud, so to speak. I did as well. Now neither of us were overly gentle, but no slight was intended.

I will now relate my own experience:

One of my saws from Mark arrived and the handle was a bit loose. I tightened it, but it was still loose. I contacted Mark right away. He told me to send it back, it must have been a slight error in drilling and was not noticed before shipping. I could have posted here asking if I should just keep it, and early on I might have. But I had seen enough posts like this to know how they go and I had already dealt with Mark and knew he would make it right. Which he did. Just for the record, his saws are amazing, he is the best and I would buy again and again from him and recommend him to anyone looking for a top of the line saw. The fact that he is not perfect (who is?) is not a slight but the fact he makes it right is the point.

Those who commented that the response was a bit harsh have a valid point. No one should be discouraged from asking questions. The only dumb question is the one not asked.

As another poster remarked, how do you like your saw, Caleb? We all live vicariously through each others purchases, so we love to hear all of the juicy details. It is one of the reasons I come here daily.

I hope Caleb, that you are not soured by this experience. No slight or offense was meant, hope none will be taken.

Tim

[Kenneth Speed]

All,

OK, No criticism of ANYBODY in this post. It's only sporting to give the vendor/manufacturer a chance to correct things if something is wrong. If they stand behind their product as almost everybody does then it becomes a non-issue if, however, they don't take care of the problem then its time to tell people on a forum like this one.

Why do I say, "...if something is wrong." you ask? I project managed a cabinet job that was worth somewhat in excess of $1,000,000.00 that would easily be worth half again as much today. In any case I watched the client's wife do everything short of stand on her head trying to figure out a way to reject a fireplace mantle the company I was working for had made. Practically everybody except the local police were there, three or four people from the architects office, the GC, his PM and foremen, my boss and I and the woodworker who'd made the mantle, and last but not least the client couple.

The architect literally verbally spanked the woman for wasting everybody's time because the mantle was exactly what had been specified, drawn, approved, and built down to the smallest detail. She, of course, had changed her mind and wanted a different mantle made on our dime.

Ken

[Don Dorn]

I think the OP was just trying to get a feel of whether he was being to picky or not based on other opinions. He made a point to say that it performed to his satisfaction, but just wanted to get a feel of others felt about a slight cosmetic issue.

I'm happy it's working out for him on all accounts. For the record, had it been me, I wouldn't have worried about it but it's just a difference in personality. My tablesaw came with a decent sized dent in the dust cover - it's still there as it doesn't effect the function (even though I don't use it much anymore). Guess I figured I was buying a tool, not a car. However, I certainly can't say that others should feel that way.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

As another poster remarked, how do you like your saw, Caleb? We all live vicariously through each others purchases, so we love to hear all of the juicy details. It is one of the reasons I come here daily.

Depending on quickly Caleb packs the saw, we may have to wait a bit for the photos of his new saw... I am curious which saw, which handle, etc... and I want pictures! It can be my saw fix until my second Bad Axe saw arrives some weeks from now.

[Adam Cruea]

Depending on quickly Caleb packs the saw, we may have to wait a bit for the photos of his new saw... I am curious which saw, which handle, etc... and I want pictures! It can be my saw fix until my second Bad Axe saw arrives some weeks from now.

No kidding! I want pictures, too.

I have a 16" tenon saw on order. I'm trying to figure out if I want it sharpened rip or hybrid. . .the problem with hybrid is I don't really ever foresee crosscutting down 4". But, I may order a second anyway.

[Mike Cogswell]

<big snip>
I waited almost 3 months for my saws, during the height of Mark's backlog. Now the wait is better, from what I hear.

<snip)
Tim

<SIGH!> Sadly that doesn't seem to be the case. I just ordered two new saws from Mark late last night. He responded this morning and advised me I'm in a 12 week queue, so it's still almost three months. Good for Mark, since I'm sure he wouldn't agree that a shorter backlog is a good thing. :)

Sadly, patience is NOT on my list of virtues. I've already been waiting a couple of months for some carving tools I ordered from Austria (apparently the factory has adopted the French habit of shutting down for a summer vacation), so hopefully they will show up in the near future and distract me from the saw wait.

Mike

So vis pacem, para bellum

[Caleb James]

**UPDATE**

I just received the saw back from Mark with a New Handle. The turn around time was super quick and the handle (as well as the rest of the saw) is absolutely perfect. Let this be a reaffirmation of Mark's skill both in saw making and in customer satisfaction! Pictures to follow. Thanks.

[Joel Goodman]

And all's well that ends well.....

[Carl Beckett]

Yes. And as far as what this thread has done to reputation - it has given me utmost confidence in purchasing from said supplier. So overall - quite positive publicity!

[Mike Cogswell]

*** Update ***

Mark emailed Tuesday (9 Oct) to let me know that he was less than two weeks away from building my saws and asking for my final approval of the order. That schedule translates to about a 7 week turn-around, much faster than the 12 weeks he originally forecast. Mark did say on his website that he's made strides knocking down the backlog.

Personally, it'll easily be worth the wait if the saws are anywhere near as good as I anticipate. I must admit, I'm pretty anxious to get my hands on them.

He also called my last night about two Disston 26" saws I sent to him for sharpening. All in all, his communications have been outstanding - he's kept me informed about progress with both the Disstons and the new saws.

Mike

I'll post pics and first impressions when I get the saws.

[Chris Griggs]

I wonder if he would ever sell saw backs - I really like the looks of his folded backs (in their various colors and materials). He sells his split nuts, so perhaps he would entertain the idea of peddling other parts.