WTF problems

[Luke Pighetti]

Hey all,

Ended up picking up some Wood Turners Finish by General Finishes.

I like it's fast recoat times and how it doesn't really have any nasty smells at all. Very nice.

That said, I am having some problems which are probably easily remedied.

The final finish is quite "who cares?" It looks boring and dull, but so many people on here seem to like it.

Can it be thinned with tap water? It seems to go on awfully thick. I've tried wipe on and brush on while on the lathe. Maybe it's time for a cheap airbrush?

What can it be used over? For my nicer pieces I like to go BLO > dewaxed shellac > lacquer... I was hoping to replace a lot of this with WTF because I can spray it inside without much ventilation it seems.

Anyway, I hope this didn't sound like a rant. I think I'm missing something simple...

[Fred Belknap]

I find if I use some Minwax Antique Oil first I like it better. I think any finish that pops the grain would help. I have used WTF but just when I am in a hurry. BLO, shellac, walnut oil,would work well.

[Rick Markham]

I think that an important factor to consider with this stuff is that it's nearly colorless. While that's great in some respects, in other respects it isn't. It adds only the tiniest yellowish hue, while that's great if the wood really shines on it's own, the WTF doesn't help liven the wood up with a subtle warm hue, like shellac, or varnish does. Even with the blondest shellac flakes I can find, are still very yellow compared to the WTF. Now while being super clear is a fantastic thing for colored pieces, and achieving a ultra high gloss finish. It really does nothing to liven the wood itself up.

That being said Fred is right, a primer coat of something that really enhances the wood fixes that. (I use a couple coats of shellac) The uncolored pieces that I have finished purely with the WTF really don't "pop" like with other finishes, the shellac coat really makes all the difference in the world when used on undyed wood.

We have to remember that we are looking at a 2 dimensional surface through a finish, the finish acts as a "filter" of sorts and plays with the light we see (remember by the time we see the light it has traveled twice through the finish) as we add different layers of finish we are changing the color/hue of the light we perceive. (We can manipulate that aspect of our work to great effects.) I will even go so far as to say that the effect (the pop) that some finishes achieve (shellac/varnish/and oils) actually is due to their color and the effects it has on the light being reflected back through it. Chatoyance always exists in the wood, we are merely manipulating how and what aspects, of the light are highlighted. We all do this unknowingly and every time it happens we all go "WOW" in our heads (You know you do ;)) it's that moment when the first coat of shellac goes on, and the wood comes alive.

Woodturner's Finish affects the light in the least degree (of any finish I personally have used) by being nearly clear. It changes very little if anything with how the light behaves, so the wood looks "flat" even though it is covered in a thick glass like coat. (It should look "wet" right? But it doesn't)

To me this is an advantage! Why? Because when you generate a thick glossy finish with WOP, Laquer, or French polishing shellac, whether we like to admit it or not, the thick glossy finish does lessen the light traveling back to your eye (hence obscuring the grain). So have the best of both worlds! Give it a coat (or a few) of a finish that's compatible with the WTF that gives the wood that "pop" that your after, then create your gloss finish with the WTF. You are gaining the benefit of the effects of the "pop" that other finishes provide, but also generating a high gloss wet look and minimizing the light lost of having to travel through a thick finish. What you get in the end is the pop with a crystal clear view of the grain.

Whew... everyone is probably asleep or bored by now :eek: or just completely confused.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I also just recently have tried WTF. I have the same concerns. How many coats have you applied? I noticed that the first 3 or 4 coats really did nothing as you say. I sanded with 600, and applied a few more coats. It looks shiny, but I've not buffed yet. I usually wait a few days to let the finish cure. I do like all of the benefits you stated though. I can get 3 or 4 coats on in a couple hours time. Fast...... And my hands don't smell like oil.

I still prefer WOP. Have to try newe things though. Just my $0.02.

[Luke Pighetti]

Rick your post was very helpful, not dull and boring at all.

Is there a list of known compatible finished that WTF goes over nicely? I did notice that it takes a polish quite quickly. I think that it might go nice over shellac like you mentioned. With my blo + shellac + lacquer go-to finish, the BLO just serves to "pop", the shellac serves to "tame" and sealer coat, and the lacquer serves to act as a durable final coat. Perhaps shellac + WTF will prove to be a very quick and effective way to get a similar finish to the BLO + shellac + lacquer?

I'm envisioning having a part on the lathe... quick wipe of very thin shellac, then 10 or so very quick and light coats of WTF, then polish.

[Rick Markham]

Luke, I personally don't know which finishes all work with which other finishes. I do know however, that shellac sticks to nearly any finish (I also know from experience that it works perfectly together.) I don't see why you couldn't do your BLO+Shellac+WTF.

As far as the adding water question maybe Roger will chime in here, he mentioned in a recent post that he was going to try and thin the tail end of his can to see if it became more manageable. I know I'm interested in seeing his thoughts on that.

I will state (as I allways do) keep this stuff sealed up real good, the can it comes in isn't good enough after its been opened a few times, I split a quart into two glass snapple bottles as soon as I open it. This stuff becomes a real deal killer (It will make more work for you than it's worth) once the magic solvent evaporates.

[Roger Chandler]

Hey guys........I have not thinned my WTF as of yet.........I did get a return email that my club has another can waiting for me. As far as the coloration........I used Antique oil on a box elder burl lidded box a few weeks ago to pop the grain and it really brought out the figure well.........then applied several coats of WTF.........made for a real nice finish.

I think it would be okay to add a little bit of water, and perhaps a little naphta to it......as naphta is a drying agent and just putting water back in might not keep the same ratio of polyurethanes and dryers......might lose something in the addition of water.........[my theory only] but I think thinning up a partially used can is feasible, but must be done correctly. I am not sure but denatured alcohol might be as good as naphta??? :confused:

[Rick Markham]

Roger, you just answered the million dollar question!!! Naphtha is the magic solvent :D (I've been wondering since I've been using it) My guess is General Finishes isn't going to "share" the proportions of the mix.

I agree adding anything to a new can would be a mistake, this stuff can be quite tempermental. The magic of chemistry is at work here :D

[Roger Chandler]

[QUOTE=Rick Markham;1974320] My guess is General Finishes isn't going to "share" the proportions of the mix. /QUOTE]

I think that is a pretty safe guess you made there, Rick! ;)

Hey Rick........ever thought about a "home brew" of this type.......a trial and error process might hit on something that works well...........better keep that experiment in a well vented area. What about a quart can of wipe on poly and about1/2 or 3/4 cup of naphtha?

[Ryan Mooney]

Rick, great information. I've tried it on a couple of things and have liked it on some pieces and not on others, I think I understand a lot more about why now.

[Luke Pighetti]

I think I was hoping for too much with WTF. Like anything else, it has it's uses. For example, I would grab this before anything else for something like a tool handle.. but when I put it on some curly maple the comparison between that and my go to BLO + shellac + lacquer wasn't even fair. If my goto on curly maple was an A the WTF only would be a C-.

I'm going to try shellac and WTF as see what I think. :)

Worse comes to worse, I suppose I could use it as end grain sealer on the blanks I make.

[Rick Markham]

Luke, I think you will find when you use it in conjunction with another finish that it will make all the difference.

WTF for me is a love/hate relationship, when it behaves like it is supposed to I love it. It's useful, especially for building a fast glossy finish, but it's got a learning curve and doesn't behave like other finishes. Patience is a virtue with it, in the end it was worth the effort and frustration I had figuring it out.

Just as with every other finish, it has it's place. An end all be all finish it is not. But finishing is really half of our art, it generally consumes more time for me than the actual turning of the project, it's a wonderful thing that we get to pick and choose that aspect of our chosen medium, a finish makes or breaks a piece. :)

[Robert Henrickson]

Might I point out a long discussion (over 6 pages) not so long ago, led off by John Keeton and dealing with BLO/shellac etc

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?183796-3-5-hrs-Start-to-Finish-a-review-of-General-WTF