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Jon Parker
04-12-2005, 8:53 PM
I am looking into getting a laser engraver.
I am in the embroidery business
I am wanting to cut fabric appliques.
There will be multiple layers of fabric, cut at different depths.
I am looking for an entry level system.
I have info from most of the companies.

I am considering Pinnacle M, ULS VersaLaser, and Epilog Mini
I like the table size of the Pinnacle, but would rather buy US made.


I plan to using CorelDraw for the designing part.

I have seen the VersaLaser, and a Epilog (not mini) demo.
Only a video on the Pinnacle-M
I have been told they basically all do the same thing, I should worry more about service after the sale.

I have only really considered a 25w system, because of price.

My questions are:
Which of these systems will offer the best Vector cutting?
I saw somebody was having a problem with Pinnacle, and a ramp function with vector cutting shapes..

Which will handle CorelDraw better?
I have heard some systems don't like corel..

Will all have a print driver that will allow me to vary my depth by color?

Which sytem offers more growth opportunity? If I wanted to get into actual engaving like wood, granite tiles, leather, name tags, etc.

Or is there something else I need to consider.
Keeping in mind I have about 10k to spend.
I don't have a purchase date in mind, still doing my research

I want new , would consider a demo, but not heavily used.
at least a 12 x 18 table
Air assist
Red dot pointer is nice
auto focus (heard mixed opinions on this)

Thanks for a great Forum
I have found it very helpful

Thanks for any opinions anyone will offer.

Jon

Shari Loveless
04-13-2005, 12:49 AM
Jon,

Since cutting fabric is 99% of what I use my laser for, I will give you my personal opinion. I have two Universal lasers. I have had one for going on 8 years now. You can't beat it for vector cutting. I would recommend a Universal without hesitation. I cut appliques for the embroidery industry and am very happy with how mine performs. If you have any questions, you can send an email to: sharis @ cableone.net (remove spaces) I'll be happy to help answer some of your questions if I can. I use Corel Draw with my embroidery software. They interface quite well.
Shari
Arizona

Rodne Gold
04-13-2005, 1:00 AM
For your application I would consider a bit more power. The problem is that cutting thru multiple layers will tend to have higher heat affected zones with low power stuff. Think of it like trying to burn a neat hole thru paper with a pencil soldering torch vs a lighter - both will do the job , but the lighters hole will be messier. Obviously that depends on the material to be cut. Suffice it to say , a 25 w laser will process a lot of the materials used very adequately , its only when you seriously stack stuff that you will run into slight hassles.(layers under the top mike get smoke or residue damage)
They will all vector cut fine , there is no problem in that are with the laserpros or for that matter any laser , the differences between various machines are truly negligable in terms of what they can do. Most of the print drivers allow different power and speed settings per colour , generally up to 16 colours. Depth cannot be programmed in a laser , it can , but its a function of speed and power. The more power , the slower the speed , the deeper the laser cuts. Precise control is achievable , but it will require some experimentation on your part to get it just right. There is another factor as to depth in a laser , the beam does not come out dead straight , it has an hourglass type shape and the waist of the hourglass is where the power is concentrated into a small area and thats where the laser cuts effectively. The lens that is used varies the "elongation" of the waist section and determines exacly how deep you can cut and the thickness that can be processed. A 4" lens vs the 2" most are supplied with will cut thicker stuff or higher stacks but the width of the cut will be wider.
All the lasers will allow you to do other stuff like wood , leather and so forth.
In terms of a growth path , some lasers offer easy power increases , but we have found that this is not a great "upgrade" , its far better to get another laser than upgrade the exisiting one as the upgrade doesnt generally allow you to double production or indeed have a backup machine.
Air assist , pointer and autofocus are not really "options" , they are a must!!! Air assist in particular is not even worth considering deleting from a laser - it accomplishes many things. For your application , you will need some sort of hold down system for the fabrics , you can either lay them out or use some sort of vacuum system for hold down. A few models are offering vacuum cutting tables , its worth considering them.
I would be hesitant to get a very basic entry level system , I would rather bite the bullet and spring for a more comprehensive system with a larger table size and more power as this will serve you better in the long run.
I think with emroidery and a laser , you can do some wonderful things , you can easily enter the promotional industry market as well as the branding market , you are already doing branding and most likely deal with promotional cos , so you have a ready market.
Have a look at my website to see what I do with my lasers http://www.tokerbros.co.za

Jerry Allen
04-13-2005, 11:32 AM
Jon,
Regarding the ramp problem with Pinnacle, I can assure you that it is a minor problem that would rarely be encountered since the user would not likely turn ramp on and off and then cut again immediately. I am sure GCC will fix that in the next rev.
Every machine has some problems and weaknesses, but I am real happy with the quality and capability of my Mercury. If I had more money to spend I would have purchased an Explorer with more power, but I get a lot done with just 25 watts. Based on numbers I see floating around here I would say it's actually putting out more power than it's rated at. I have no problem cutting 3/8" birch ply. As mentioned above, cutting a stack will require playing with settings, finding an appropriate holding method, and just learning to understand the ins and outs of whatever machine you end up with.

Aaron Koehl
04-13-2005, 2:33 PM
Jon,

Since cutting fabric is 99% of what I use my laser for, I will give you my personal opinion. I have two Universal lasers. I have had one for going on 8 years now. You can't beat it for vector cutting. I would recommend a Universal without hesitation. I cut appliques for the embroidery industry and am very happy with how mine performs. If you have any questions, you can send an email to: sharis @ cableone.net (remove spaces) I'll be happy to help answer some of your questions if I can. I use Corel Draw with my embroidery software. They interface quite well.
Shari
Arizona
Shari,

Could you post a few pictures walking your process for those of us who've never been exposed to cutting appliquees (e.g. those unfamiliar with how the laser can be used for this purpose) ?

Kevin Huffman
04-14-2005, 12:05 PM
Hey Guys,
You guys are lucky, we had a custom sample request came in today that required me to cut some appliquees. Here are some pictures.

From top to bottom.

Two pieces of reflective heat press glued together.
The inside cut is a "kiss" cut, it only cuts the top layer. The outside cut is the cut all the way through both materials.
Next showed the top layer pulled off.
Next is what you would heat press on to a tee shirt or ball cap.
Next is something was down out of a piece of twill and reflected glued together.

Shari Loveless
04-14-2005, 12:36 PM
Aaron,

For the embroidery industry I do not kiss cut fabric since all pieces will have stitching around them. Most of us want the garment to stay soft and flexible even with the applique on it so we don't pile up layer after layer. There is nothing really to show. I just lay a piece of fabric in the laser and cut it. Normally I only cut one layer at a time. Less burn and better accuracy. Air space between fabric layers can create problems. Sort of like cutting card stock. When it's done, pick up all the pieces and package them for the customer. You really don't need much power to do this. I still use my 25 watt for this and it is way more than enough power. Settings will vary depending on the type of fabric and even the color. You just have to experiment! You want to cut through the fabric, not torch it. The fabric pieces will have a smell but that will go away after a while. I have cut cotton, satin, ultrasuede, polysuede, polyester, poly-cottons, lame, sherpa, fleece, etc. Some of the glitzy fabrics have a small metallic thread in them and will not cut through on that thread. Stay away from those. The files don't usually take very long so you spend more time opening and closing the lid than anything. The nice thing about having a laser cut them is they fit perfect every time: the same way the embroidery machine sews the design perfect every time. :D If you have any other questions I'll be happy to answer them if I can. I have been in the embroidery industry since 1981 and I still love doing it today. I will look to see if I can find a picture of one of my designs to post.
Shari

Steve Spaulding
04-14-2005, 12:50 PM
I am looking into getting a laser engraver.
I am in the embroidery business
I am wanting to cut fabric appliques.
There will be multiple layers of fabric, cut at different depths.

Consider that when you layer any material, the potential for air pockets will be there. This said, it is these packets that can accumulate fume and thus provide a source for the heat of the laser to flame. Air Assit and a strong exhaust can really help.

I am looking for an entry level system.
I have info from most of the companies.

I am considering Pinnacle M, ULS VersaLaser, and Epilog Mini
I like the table size of the Pinnacle, but would rather buy US made.

30 watts is a typical starting level for a laser, so look at size, speed and motion. For example a stepper versus servo motor....servo work in unison, steppers take turns, regardless of how small of measurement is assigned to each step.

Every one has a preference for country or origin, but consider a couple of things, one, it is a really small planet, every product is from across the globe. In terms of GCC - LaserPro product, over 60% of this machine is made in the US. The one distinct difference is that the menial portion of the machine is made over seas, so instead of paying labor, cost can be associated with material. Thicker meterials used means lower vibration, lower vibration means easier movment when cutting.


I plan to using CorelDraw for the designing part.

I have seen the VersaLaser, and a Epilog (not mini) demo.
Only a video on the Pinnacle-M
I have been told they basically all do the same thing, I should worry more about service after the sale.

Huge point, you need an answer from a creditable support person that can listen to what you are asking and reply with a solid answer. Ask your representative a technical question or two and more importantly ask for references that migfht speak to service. No machine is perfect, so the experience offered through support of people who have actuially been in the engraving field for a solid amount of time can be a huge value to your bsuinmess.

I have only really considered a 25w system, because of price.

My questions are:
Which of these systems will offer the best Vector cutting?
I saw somebody was having a problem with Pinnacle, and a ramp function with vector cutting shapes..

Servo Motors, look for added control features like the Enhanced cutting mode on the Explorer.

Which will handle CorelDraw better?
I have heard some systems don't like corel..

Most handel Corel just fine, but ask anyway as 13 is due soon.

Will all have a print driver that will allow me to vary my depth by color?

Most do.

Which sytem offers more growth opportunity? If I wanted to get into actual engaving like wood, granite tiles, leather, name tags, etc.

Once again, consider size and speed as these are the 2 main components for growing your business.

Or is there something else I need to consider.
Keeping in mind I have about 10k to spend.
I don't have a purchase date in mind, still doing my research

I want new , would consider a demo, but not heavily used.
at least a 12 x 18 table
Air assist
Red dot pointer is nice
auto focus (heard mixed opinions on this)

Thanks for a great Forum
I have found it very helpful

Thanks for any opinions anyone will offer.

Jon

Good Luck on your venture.


Steve Spaulding
LaserProUSA Member -- trying to be objective :>)

Shari Loveless
04-14-2005, 12:52 PM
Here is an applique picture of one of my designs. Actual size of the design is about 9" wide x 10.25" tall. This should give you some idea as to how we are using the laser cut parts for the embroidery files.
Shari

Laura Zaruba
04-14-2005, 1:13 PM
Shari I'm facinated! I take it you cut the pieces for the embroidery machine to sew together (i.e., the hat, shirt, pants, rug, cactus, etc.?) Do you get the files to laser from embroidery software?

When I got my sewing machine I used my laser to cut small patterns for little bags and purses and it worked great...I always hated cutting patterns by hand!! :) I thought of selling packaged pre-cut patterns ready to sew.

For those of us who are not in the embroidery business but can provide this service to those who are, could you elaborate on the business aspect? There are a couple shops close to me I would love to approach when I know more about this type of work.

Thanks for sharing!

Aaron Koehl
04-14-2005, 1:27 PM
Here is an applique picture of one of my designs. Actual size of the design is about 9" wide x 10.25" tall. This should give you some idea as to how we are using the laser cut parts for the embroidery files.
Shari
Very nice! I guess I don't know enough about appliques to see how one goes from design to finished product (materials/equipment involved, etc). I guess I'll do some Googling. This looks promising though!

And Kevin, nice job on the kiss cut, that's neat too!

Mike Mackenzie
04-14-2005, 1:33 PM
Here are some applique samples done on the Universal system

Shari Loveless
04-14-2005, 7:32 PM
Ok, hope this will help clarify how it's done. First the design is digitized in an embroidery program of some sort (I use Wilcom ES65). From this embroidery design, you must isolate the outline file for the applique part. If you are lucky and your software will support it, you can do a copy and paste right into Corel Draw. If not, you must print out the outline onto paper from the embroidery program on a 1:1 ratio (I did this for years until Wilcom added the copy paste function). Scan it, vector it, double check it to make sure it matches perfectly (if not you edit it here). Then you put your fabric in the laser and cut the parts. Now you are ready to sew. The embroidery machine does the outline and stops - you put down the applique - you then hit the start button and the machine sews around the outside edge. Each time the machine needs another part, it will stop and you do the same thing over again until the design is complete.
I think it's much easier to start with the embroidery design, but some start with the applique and make the embroidery to fit it. The finished product quality is in the digitizing. There is an art to making everything fit just right, especially when embroiderers are running these designs on multiple heads.
If you want to add this service for embroidery people, they will need to furnish you with the outline file (the embroiderer will know what this means). It is not always cost effecient to do this unless you are doing enough quantity to make it worth your while to set up the files, etc. Your minimum requirement depends entirely on what you determine your cutting charges are. Some people charge by the square inch and some charge by cutting time. The profit is in the volume.
Hope this helps you understand the process a little better.
Shari

George Skinner
04-15-2005, 5:45 PM
Kevin,
What is a good source for the materials you used? Also if the 2 pieces of material are glued together how do you remove the unwanted parts? How well does this process hold up on the clothing?
This is very interesting but something I know nothing about.
George

Kevin Huffman
04-15-2005, 6:13 PM
Hey George,
I don't know where the material came from, a customer sent it to us so we could do a custom sample on it.
The glue is tacky but no so tacky that you can't remove the unneeded material. It is actually made to become super tacky when heat is apply'ed to it.
I have one customer who does nothing but this and she does all the stuff for Wimbledon and they keep coming back every year, so I guess it holds up pretty good.

Kevin

Mike Mackenzie
04-15-2005, 9:36 PM
George,


You can get the material from Twill USA there is a slight adhesive on the back of the material so you can put two, three, or more layers together. They do not become permanent until they are placed into a heat press. We have Lots of customers doing this application so I would have to say that it is very durable on clothing and hats.

Annette Thomas
10-02-2008, 7:24 AM
I have a question since you all are applique knowledgeable. I am trying to cut letters on my laser to make them look like they are stitched in a zig zag stitch. I picked some up at a show but trying to figure out in Corel X3 how to put the slight raster image of a zig zag on my letters. Anyone have any tricks they would like to share?

Thanks!
Annette

Paul Brinkmeyer
10-02-2008, 10:47 AM
I do it by actually using my embroidery software. I do the name as if I was going to embroidery it, then output it to a jpg file. Loaded into Corel, cropped it and added it to the badges I was doing. Looked really cool. I did all this on a badge shaped like a sewing maching. Just set the denisty really high so the stitches are easy to see.

Annette Thomas
10-05-2008, 7:54 AM
Ok I have Smart Designer and can make the stitches vector or I can use my embroidery software to do it. I use different sizes so it is easier for me to create in Corel for that reason. I can convert my outline to an object so that it will not cut the "fake stitches". How do I make it cut around the outside of the object leaving tips around the letters as if the stitches were peaking out. This is perma-twill so all that will be done is heat pressed on. I want the simulation that there are stitches there.

If I cut around the edges leaving the tips out there, I want the inside of the letter just raster where it just burns the material enough to simulate the stitches. I hope I am explaining this with enough detail that someone can understand.

I have an order that I have to do and have to figure this out. This is very frustrating of getting this order and not knowing how... like we all haven't done it a million times. LOL

Annette

Mike Null
10-05-2008, 10:17 AM
Annette

I believe the contour tool will do what you want if not the boundary tool should do it. Both are under the effects drop down.

Martin Reynolds
10-06-2008, 9:47 PM
I have a couple of things to note.

1) The laser goes fairly slowly around curves. Actually, very slowly. It has to reduce the power, even with a 30W tube, for thin materials. In other words, more power won't do a lot for you unless your cuts are mostly straight.

2) A bigger bed is more important than more power. You can load bigger sheets, and spend less time messing with loading and unloading the laser. Plus, you can do larger items. I use a 36+ x 20 bed, and it is a good size.

Doug Griffith
10-07-2008, 9:47 AM
1) The laser goes fairly slowly around curves. Actually, very slowly. It has to reduce the power, even with a 30W tube, for thin materials. In other words, more power won't do a lot for you unless your cuts are mostly straight.

Huh? My Epilog hauls @$$ around curves. Do your curves consist of true arcs and not a lot of tangent points. DXF will do this if polyarcs aren't used. Or your driver may be based on HPGL which is just a bunch of segments. I'm curious.

Deb Kaiser
03-19-2011, 8:53 AM
Shari,
I am a newbi to laser engraving. We recently puchaced a Universal laser. I would like to cut some numbers/ names from Poly Twill. When I cut these out before heat pressing- do I put them on a transfer tape or just eyeball them. Or is there a template for positoning. Sorry about the amount of quetions. Or is there somwhere I can find info on this. I am proud to say I have figured out name badges and metal marking.
Thanks Deb