Raptor Setup Tools

[Hugh Cowart]

This is my first attempt at joining the forum. I purchased the Raptor Setup tool/jig's and have the following question. But first let me explain the frustration I have. The Raptor instructions state that they can be used to set the grinder/wolverine tool rest angle. After several attempts I could never get the proper angle as stated on the Raptor tool. I used the "tilt box" to determine the exact angle of the rest and here are my results - I will list the four Raptor settings and then what my "tilt box" angle showed. By the way the "tilt box" angle measurement can be determined by establishing a "zero" reference point which I did. What I want to know is whether anyone out there has taken the time to do this and what were your results? If you haven't checked it would you give it a try and let me know the what you find? When I use the compass to verify my tool angle it is correct. I am very reluctant to use the Raptor set up tool to set the grinder tool rest position.

Raptor "tilt box" difference

40 deg 40 degrees right on
45 deg 32.5 degrees 12.5 degree difference
50 deg 30 degrees 20 degree difference
60 deg 25 degrees 35 degree difference

[Reed Gray]

I have one friend who got them, and his comment was that one of them was right on, and well, the others looked really nice hanging on the wall. I would not expect machine shop accuracy with any grinder tool rest, but close and repeatable should be easy.

robo hippy

[Hugh Cowart]

;) Thanks Reed, that pretty much is in line with my findings. I hope others respond.

[Jon Nuckles]

I bought a set, but don't use them because it is easy to set the wolverine by eye to match the existing gouge profile. I only tried them with the wolverine pocket for use with the vari-grind jig. It sounds like you are using them to set your traditional tool rest. The fact that your angles are going in the opposite direction that they are supposed to makes me think that you might be doing something wrong. If you bought them from Craft Supplies, I'd call them and ask. They have great customer service.

[Thom Sturgill]

The tilt box will give you the angle of the platform in relation to its zero (parallel to the floor?) . The RAPTOR sets the angle in relation to a tangent to the wheel. You are comparing apples and oranges.

I suggest that you grind a sample with the raptor setting and measure the angle of the grind to the flat of the steel , compare that to the raptor's stated value. I think you will find them much closer, while repeating that by setting the table with the tilt box will give you different angles than you would expect.

[Hugh Cowart]

Hi Thom, while I am reluctant to agree or disagree allow me to ask. If I use the tilt box to establish the angle of the rest wouldn't that give me the proper angle to grind on the tool? Why then would the 40 degree Raptor setting be the same as the "tilt box"? I appreciate your feedback.

[Hugh Cowart]

Hey Jon, and that's exactly what I am attempting to do. I want to begin sharpening my tools by hand but first I need to establish an accurate bevel and that's what led me to all this. Yes, I noticed that they were decreasing as the Raptor increased which makes no sense to me. I have an email to Craft Supplies (I bought my Powermatic 3052B there). Thank you for responding. I am still unsure about all this.

[Hugh Cowart]

I just thought of something else based on what you said about tangent. The wolverine tool rest height is fixed and can't be adjusted. You can only move it back and forth in relation to the wheel. The Raptor jig will fit the grinder wheel anywhere you put it. Since the height of the rest is fixed I would assume that there is only one place to adjust from and that is a combination of the in and out adjustment along with the tilt of the rest. So the tangent is the imaginary straight line from the tool rest angle to the wheel? The tangent changes as the rest angle changes. I still don't see how the tilt box angle could be wrong? I haven't heard from Craft Supplies yet.

[Thom Sturgill]

The grind angle is the angle measured between the bottom of the flute and the face of the gouge. As you pointed out the Wolverine pivots from a fixed point so its angle in relation to the floor and its angle in relation to a line tangent to the wheel change separately. Since 45 degrees is about midpoint on the range of angles we grind to (25 for spindle detail gouges and 65 for bowls in extremes ) that is approximately where the wolverines floor angle and tangent angle are designed to match. The tangent is a line perpendicular to a radius line at the edge of a circle. The upper and lower edges of the grind would form a line parallel to the tangent when held to the grinding wheel.

Hope that helps.
240173

[Hugh Cowart]

Thank you Thom.....I will go back to my shop and attempt to duplicate what you said. It makes since now, that the bevel angle, should be measured based on the tool position - I think....I will get back to you if I need more help. In all the CD's and tool sharpening sessions, I have never heard anyone mention this. I am attempting to print the graphic you sent. I love this forum. It's people like you who make the difference.....:)

[Thom Sturgill]

The nice thing about the forum (besides the general friendliness) is that there are turners with all kinds of backgrounds, and generally any turning question that impinges on some other area of interest will find someone that can answer it.

[Grant Wilkinson]

A fellow turner in town has a set and swears by them. I think that Thom hit it when he said that you were comparing apples and oranges. The Raptor tools are designed to be used with the Varigrind jig on the Wolverine. The angle that you set with the Raptor will never be the same as the angle between the standard Wolverine flat tool rest and the wheel. The Raptor does not index off the flat tool rest. It indexes off the pocket in the slide, just as the Varigrind does. You'll note that the instructions for the Raptor are very specific in how to set your Varigrind jig and how far to extend your gouge beyond the end of the jig. If you don't follow those instructions precisely, the Raptor angle will not match your grind angle.

For fun, set your varigrind as the raptor guys tell you and put a piece of dowel into the varigrind, sticking out the 2" that raptor instructs (1 3/4" if you have a 6" grinder), and grind the dowel. Then, measure the grind angle. What do you have to lose?

[Hugh Cowart]

Thanks Grant........The issue I had was not with the Vari-grind but the tool rest angle. I actually grind my gauges by hand and was trying to be very precise when setting the bevel. The Raptor instructions also state that the tool rest angle can be set using their set up tool. As both you and Thom stated I was not comparing apples to apples. :)Thanks for your input.