Rube Goldburg engineering challange.

[Larry Edgerton]

On the schoolhouse I am building I do not want to run a rope from the bell into the house for insulation/heat loss reasons, and I want to hook the bell up to the doorknob. It is a 20" bell. So......

Lets hear your ideas on how to make this work with a low voltage control at the door and in the kitchen so I can be called to dinner by my lovely wife. It has to be dependable so I do not have to go up into the insulated space once it is done and built with common materials.

I had a couple of ideas but I will keep them to myself for now so as not to mess with the intellectual flow......

Thanks, Larry

[Todd Burch]

What is your budget?

[John Coloccia]

I just want to understand. You want it to ring when the door opens and also when someone pushes a button somewhere, right? How far away is the kitchen to the building?

Anyhow, the house thing can be done with a button and a relay.

[Todd Burch]

He said "doorknob", but I think he meant "doorbell".

[John Coloccia]

That makes more sense. Then you could do the whole thing with a relay and two switches, and that's probably what I'd recommend because it's simple. That said, I might approach this much differently than I would actually RECOMMEND someone else doing it. If the distance isn't too far, I might consider modifying a wireless doorbell ringer to drive the bell. It would require some fiddling and actual circuitry (in other words, you couldn't do it just with wires), but it would be a pretty basic modification.

[David Weaver]

I would rip the guts out of an old garage door opener and affix something to the sprocket that would swing and hit the bell. That way, it'd be 110 v on the end where the bell is and the only battery would be in the remote activation. You could set the door adjustment on the opener to make the sprocket turn only a little bit so that it only dings a few times.

It could be complicated from the sprocket to the bell ringer, or it could be something simple like a weight on a string, something softer than the bell, like wood or plastic.

[Paul Steiner]

I am kinda working on the same problem in my classroom. I am going to use a bell to signal clean-up. Is this a swinging bell or round wall hanging bell?
A round bell is very easy to wire, just like a door bell. Find out the voltage the coil in the bell needs buy a transformer (a door bell transformer will probably work). Make a circuit and wire in a push button switch. Maybe you could find a large coil and rod to make a beefed up doorbell system.
A swinging bell would require the same circuit with a transformer, but you would a linear actuator to move the swing arm of the bell. I like this idea the best because it would give you the true sound of the bell and clacker inside the bell, instead of a hammer or rod hitting it.
If you are building a school house you can definitely figure this out.

[Matt Meiser]

Look around and see if you can find a fast acting solenoid that you could fit a plastic or wood head on to strike the bell.

[John Coloccia]

Oh...this is an actual big 'ole bell, not just a ringer. That's more interesting. Can you post a picture, Larry?

[Jamie Buxton]

To strike a big bell like that, you can either move the bell or move the striker. The traditional means would be to move the bell, while the striker hangs stationary. The easier approach for you might be to move the striker. I'd start experimenting with a striker operated by a solenoid. My first concern would be hitting the bell hard enough to produce the amount of sound you want. I have no idea how hard you have to hit the bell.

[Todd Burch]

I'm thinking a doorbell works off of 24 volts. Route a small 24v capable wire up to the bell. Near the bell, attach the 24 volt line to a contact relay for 110 volts. Have a small 110v motor with a large pulley (or affix an arm on the motor shaft) on it. Near the edge of the pulley (or end of the arm), drill a hole and mount a long bolt to it, to stick out. To this bolt, attach a rope with an eye end. Adjust the distance of the motor and length of the rope to cause momentum enough to swing the rope to pull the bell's clapper. Since the doorbell is momentary, the motor would be momentary as well, and it would be like giving the rope one quick tug. A spring attached to the long bolt and then the rope might even work better. A second rope and spring attached opposite the motor side might even be able to counteract the swing, so as to ensure only one ring per push.

Todd

[David Weaver]

I missed the size of the bell. I'd still use garage door opener parts. they're cheap, they're reliable and if you have to you can make something chain driven that reciprocates to move the bell if the bell has to move instead of the striker.

You also know that a garage door opener motor will have quite a bit of power, and be able to tolerate high and low temperatures because garages, especially unheated and uncooled can go all over the place in terms of temperature.

The parts of them that actually wear out from lifting an improperly sprung door (nylon gears, etc) will get very little wear in that application.

[Jamie Buxton]

Here's some background reading..

http://www.verdin.com/bells/bell-ringing-equipment.php

http://churchbellministry.com/

[Ryan Mooney]

Car windshield washer motor for moving the bell, possibly hooked up to an arm, not sure would have to look to rube goldberg the details.

They do come in 12v and 24v so the idea of a wireless doorbell to activate it seems plausible, but I think you might need to add a circuit to extend the "motor on" time to get it to ring nicely although you might find a bell with an extended ring time - this one claims to have it http://www.wirelessdoorbellstore.com/wireless-doorbell-push-button-3000-foot-range.html based on their comment here http://www.wirelessdoorbellstore.com/siren-12v.html wire in the washer motor instead of the siren and voila.

[Matt Meiser]

You'll need a pretty stout power source too as wiper motors have a pretty good draw. But that would work well. You could mount a wiper switch on the wall of the kitchen--slow to fast continuous ring, pull for one wipe (ring.) :D

[Art Mulder]

On the schoolhouse I am building I do not want to run a rope from the bell into the house for insulation/heat loss reasons, and I want to hook the bell up to the doorknob. It is a 20" bell. So......

If you really mean doorbell, then what about just running the rope down the outside of the house and dangling by the front door. No electricity, no gizmo to break, and it doesn't puncture the insulation envelope. :confused:

[Ryan Mooney]

You could mount a wiper switch on the wall of the kitchen--slow to fast continuous ring, pull for one wipe (ring.) :D

LOL, I hadn't thought of that possibility, Ding... Ding Ding. DingDingDing.

[Ole Anderson]

A fixed bell would be much easier than a swinging bell, particularly if you want it to strike more than once with a nice cadence. If you have ever rung a swinging bell, you will know that it takes some practice to get the rope pulls timed correctly so you get a nice bell cadence, otherwise it sounds very much like someone who doesn't know how to ring a bell.

At our church, the rope controlling the single bell penetrates the roof and ceiling through a pipe not much bigger than the rope, so there is very little loss of heat.

[Jim Matthews]

I wonder if you could approach this a little differently, use the motor to bring the bell back to a "ready" position after a carillon session.

The relay could be used to release the bell to starte it swinging, and a winch to pull it back into place.
I suppose a timer would be required in the logic diagram...

If you wanted to ring the bell repeatedly, the bell could be fixed at the headstock and struck with a piston operated by the relay.
http://www.wdcra.org.uk/study/bellparts.htm

I would adapt something from your local heating and air conditioning contractor to work as an actuator (http://www.industrialcontrolsonline.com/category/product-categories/dampers-actuators/actuators/pneumatic-damper-actuators).

A stout linear actuator (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-AI3r9frpE&feature=related) could rapidly lower and slowly raise an external clapper.

[Ryan Mooney]

When in doubt steal your ideas from people who've already solved the problem. Google search for "automatic bell ringer" yields some interesting setups.
Overly automated for this use case imho but interesting if you stare close enough at the pictures.
http://www.chimemaster.com/bells/equipment.html

I kind of like the setup here, I'm pretty sure this could be adapted and would require little power and you have the advantage of being able to change gear ratios to address the timing issue Ole pointed out..
http://www.verdin.com/bells/bell-ringing-equipment.php

[Lee Schierer]

I would take an old windshield wiper motor assembly and mount if so that the lever that would run the wiper back and forth has a lever with a bungee cord at the end attached to the clapper of your bell. As the motor runs the wiper arm would move back and forth yanking the clapper against the side of the bell. As long as the button is pushed the motor would run. You could also have the button trigger a timer relay that would run the motor for a pre-set time and then stop.

[curtis rosche]

Forget electronics . A ram attatched to an airhose, then just use a simple valve to activate

[Larry Edgerton]

Wow! I didn't really expect much response to my hairbrained thoughts.

Yes I meant doorbell, I was on my way to work...... Opps.

What I have is a authentic 1800's 20" school bell, but I love to make things that screw with peoples head, hence the doorbell switch, which is on the other end of the house from the belfry.

There are some great ideas here that I had not thought of! I will read all of the responses again to let it soak in.

My original idea was to use the compressed air lines that are run through the house [for dusting honey, for dusting!] to run a custom made air cylinder with the door bell actuating a dump valve on each end of the cylinder. I figured I would have to time the dump valve with a small gear motor like a zone valve motor to run air from one side of the cylinder to the other. I may even be able to add a port to a zone valve to do that but.......

I had a close call in my old shop when an air compressor malfunctioned while I was gone and burned up, so I decided not to do anything that made me have to leave the air compressor on all of the time.

So I was back to square one, hence the post. This is obviously not an emergency, just a fun project.

Love the new ideas, nothing is to crazy that I would no like to hear it. I am weak on electrical stuff, but I have friends that are good at it.

It will take a fair amount of force to push/pull the bell to the 45 degree point, so faster would be better to gain advantage from inertia, and if it is to ring more than once it gets even more complicated.

A rope is too easy...:p

Thanks, Larry

[Myk Rian]

If you ran the rope through a piece of tubing, there would be minimal heat loss.
Flare it on both ends to prevent chafing.

[John Coloccia]

OK....now that I know it's a real bell, My idea is out there but is easy to build if you can wire up some basic electronics.

I would put a collection bin underneath the bell, filled with ball bearings (or BBs), sloped towards the center. In the middle is an Archimedes screws. At the top is a fast spinning disk with vanes. When you hit the button, the screw and disk take off, dropping bearings onto the disk, and flinging them into the bell. DING DING DING DING DING....

:)

[Todd Burch]

OK....now that I know it's a real bell, My idea is out there but is easy to build if you can wire up some basic electronics.

I would put a collection bin underneath the bell, filled with ball bearings (or BBs), sloped towards the center. In the middle is an Archimedes screws. At the top is a fast spinning disk with vanes. When you hit the button, the screw and disk take off, dropping bearings onto the disk, and flinging them into the bell. DING DING DING DING DING....

:)

That made me laugh. And if you were within 10' of it, you would even hear it! LOL

[Rich Engelhardt]

A wrist rocket an a big bag of marbles?

My wife bought on of those for my grandson.
They're a real hoot to shoot.

[Jim Matthews]

Awesome.

Just when I think I'm clever, I find I'm late to the party.
These guys could probably talk the OP through a homebrew version.

Excellent.

[Jason Roehl]

I like the garage door opener idea. Use a crankset from a bicycle attached to a large wooden disk. The chain from the garage door opener would turn the disk via the crankset. Attach some number of hanging hammers/mallets from the disk so that they hit the bell as the disk rotates. You'd still have to figure a way to use the limit switches so that the motor stops after some amount of time, or introduce some resistance so that it automatically reverses to "home" after ringing the bell. Perhaps you could even add some springs to the mallets and a trip or catch to hold them back prior to the strike, which would then be aided by the now-stretched spring.

The rope/pipe idea has some merit, too. You could even add a very heavy grease to the rope near the entry/exit points which would act as a sealant.

[Matt Meiser]

If you want to make it interesting, put 2 ropes at the front door. One rings the bell. The other opens the valve to a shower head over the door. Do not label but put a sign at the door "Pull rope to ring bell." :D

[Jason Roehl]

Now that funny right there, I don't care who y'are.

[Belinda Barfield]

I am so not mechanically inclined, but I think it would be really fun if you could connect it to an old hand pump like you would use for water, or some kind of crank handle. That's all I got, no idea how to make either work. :o

[David Peterson MN]

I highly recommend these guys. One of them works at the Acme School Bell Company :D

http://youtu.be/5FNBuO6eDYc

[Kenneth Speed]

I have to admit I really like the electric garage door opener idea. I'd have to actually SEE things to figure it out but I can imagine the garage door opener turning the wheel the bell is attached to and releasing it so that the bell would ring a few times in descending volume.

If you have neighbors you don't like you could hook up your alarm clock to it too!

Ken

[Larry Edgerton]

If you want to make it interesting, put 2 ropes at the front door. One rings the bell. The other opens the valve to a shower head over the door. Do not label but put a sign at the door "Pull rope to ring bell." :D

Excellent! I like it. I would even go so far as to put a sign on the second rope that says "Do not under any circumstances pull this rope."

I am putting in an outside shower, so what is one more?

Larry

[Larry Edgerton]

I was a bit confused by the garage door opener suggestion, but I can see the possibilities now. I happen to have a opener in the attic at the shop. The problem is that it is too slow, but maybe you use the opener to lift the bell and then release it to do its bell thing?

Many very good and fun suggestions. I'll ponder them while I eat my dinner.

Thanks, Larry

[David Weaver]

Yeah, however you'd want to do it, whether you'd want to rig up a makeshift clapper to it and let it clang it inside (or outside) the bell, or affix a sprocket to something that will move the bell itself back and forth.

It looked in the picture in another link like the one professional system wasn't a whole lot more than an electric motor doing the same thing as the latter (moving the bell).

You could rig up the other parts from scrap, and the garage door openers are practically free compared to purpose built stuff. No wiring, either.

[Jerome Stanek]

How much room do you have to work with. If you have a lot you could mount an arm on the door opener and when it is activated it would push the bell one way to it falls off the arm and swing back and forth then when you hit the button again it would push it the other way and do the same thing

[Jay Maiers]

http://www.surpluscenter.com/
For all of your Rube Goldburg needs. :)

They have a couple of garage door motors available, some regular gear motors, and all kinds of power transfer stuff (chains, sprockets, etc.).

[Rich Engelhardt]

In the middle is an Archimedes screws. At the top is a fast spinning disk with vanes. When you hit the button, the screw and disk take off, dropping bearings onto the disk, and flinging them into the bell. DING DING DING DING DING....

Quite a few people have tried that approach...
http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT6520169

[Ryan Mooney]

Quite a few people have tried that approach...
http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT6520169

Hah, I read an account of that when I was a kid and felt compelled to (try and) make one. I used a tuna fish can for the outside cylinder, a small piece of pipe for the pickup tube and barrel, and a (very) small motor I got from I don't recall where. Actually got it to work; sort of; getting it balanced so it didn't pull itself apart was interesting but it would throw bb's across the room when I was done (best shot knocked a nice dent in a soda can). I think I got maybe 5-10 shots between rebuilds though as it had a bad habit of ripping itself apart if anything was the slightest bit off, accuracy was non existent and well it was fun to make anyway :D.

Mine didn't use vanes though, it was center feed to a rotating tube that had a slot in it matching a pickup rod carefully soldered (mine) / welded (anything bigger than a bb :D) to the back/underside of the barrel so you have pretty good directionality except when it goes south and then it goes in all directions.

Mythbusters also made one kind of similar to what I made (different principals on the discharge end, I reckon my idea wouldn't have worked for very large/heavy projectiles at all): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er9Hhl9-bGY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-K2go8UcU0&feature=relmfu and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GULQutRPzhY&feature=relmfu Theirs was a LOT more ambitiously sized than the table top model I built but suffered a similar fate.

[Larry Edgerton]

Jay, Thanks for that link. They do have a lot of cool stuff to make cool stuff with!

Larry

[Larry Edgerton]

I'm on one of my imsomnia kicks again so last night about something in the morning it came to me how to disconnect the drive. Scrap the garage door opener and use a flex plate and starter from a car. The bendix will disengage when the power is cut, so controling the length of time the power is applied will be the key. See, the garage door suggestion led me to the logical outcome, a car starter. See the logic?:D

Now this could also lead to some interesting conversation.....


"Starter went out of my car this week."

"Ya, I had to replace the starter in my house last month. Crazy what they get for a house starter!"

Larry

[Todd Burch]

I don't think so. A car starter might pull 100+ amps @ 12 volts. Rotsa ruck finding a 110 VAC to 12 VDC that'll support 100 amps. But if we're still suggesting "any fun idea", then it's a great idea! The torque is certainly there to swing a bell, or clapper!

For that matter, weld a flywheel to the bell pivot! ha!

[Jason Roehl]

I don't think so. A car starter might pull 100+ amps @ 12 volts. Rotsa ruck finding a 110 VAC to 12 VDC that'll support 100 amps. But if we're still suggesting "any fun idea", then it's a great idea! The torque is certainly there to swing a bell, or clapper!

For that matter, weld a flywheel to the bell pivot! ha!

No problem. He can just use a smaller power supply. There will be bells from the fire trucks...

[Larry Edgerton]

I don't think so. A car starter might pull 100+ amps @ 12 volts. Rotsa ruck finding a 110 VAC to 12 VDC that'll support 100 amps. But if we're still suggesting "any fun idea", then it's a great idea! The torque is certainly there to swing a bell, or clapper!

For that matter, weld a flywheel to the bell pivot! ha!

Good thought. I found a 110 volt starter/flywheel for a snowblower that I think will do the job and make things a lot simpler. No battery.

Larry