Deck Refacing

[Richard Wolf]

So I promised my wife I would redo the deck this fall. It's pretty big, 650 sq. ft. I have cedar now, and it is overdue to be replaced. I want to use composite material, Trex enhance or Home Depot's Veranda. I would like to save the money and use the Veranda but I also do not want to do this again.
Any experiences?

Thanks

[trevor adair]

I don't know if they have improved but I installed Trex 5 years ago and I will be replacing it in the spring. My experience has not been positive at all. I paid the premium price for Trex (medeira) so that I would not have to replace it for a long time.. I cannot get rid of the mold and staining. I have tried every product under the sun and I have finally given up. The only product I had any luck with was Corte clean.. very expensive and it seemed to help for about a month then back comes the mold. I also do not like how flexable it is, you have to keep your joists spaced pretty tight to avoid sag or bounce.. I will be re-surfacing with Ipe and hope it lasts the 20 years that the Trex was supposed to..

[joe milana]

I've done a few Trex decks. Been out there about 5 years & still look new. Time will tell though. I would recomend 12" joist spacing for the Trex, or it will be a bit "bouncy" feeling. The coretex screws are pretty slick. Railings are an issue as well. Use wood for railings & you will be maintaining them. Not too difficult though. Good luck, decks are fun!

[Kevin Bourque]

I installed a TREX deck on a customers house about 8 years ago and I was shocked at how easily it scratched, and, it was a dark color and it was almost too hot to stand on in the summer. Don't like the stuff.

[Kevin W Johnson]

My understanding is that if the deck is in the shade very much, the composite material is very prone to mold, mildew, and staining. I've seen enough examples personally, that I won't ever be installing it.

[William Burgess]

Not knowing the shape of your current deck, but cedar is pretty nice stuff and lasts a long time. Have you thought about taking a pressure washer to it then sanding it down? It will make an old deck like new.

[Richard Wolf]

Yes, I have spent a lot of time over the years saving the deck, it was there and stained when I bought the house 16 years ago. I've power washed, sanded, replaced boards and flipped boards. The problem with decks starts when people decide to stain the boards, they don't like the weathered look and head to the borg for deck stain, which is lay on the surface paint and not the stain we think it is. The next year it starts to wear and peel and the nightmare starts. Scraping or power washing and restaining. The following year it continues, until the finish is a complete disaster.

Anyway, the cedar has to go and I'm not looking forward to the rehab job, but hope it will last until I leave this house.

[Matt Meiser]

There was a similar thread recently on my club's forum and there were several negative comments on Trex not being the miracle material thought. I can tell you--don't use the hollow stuff which does seem stiffer, but the end caps pop off constantly in high traffic areas. I used this stuff on steps in my garage. It also has some stains that I can't powerwash off.

Someone mentioned in that thread that Azek is making a deck material. Its probably nice, I'm sure its $$$.

Our deck was stained when we move in and I've been living the same nightmare. We are going to have redo the visible parts on ours pretty soon and I think when we do it will just be wood but will not be stained. Though I do have to say--when we installed a sliding door in place of a window we had to add a step which I stained with the same stain. The new wood soaked it up like you would expect of a stain and it still looks good.

[scott spencer]

Our PT deck was getting pretty old and ratty looking...it had been "stained" with stuff the flaked up like paint. After some failed attemps with pressure washing, I ended up renting a drum sander that made short work of the surface and made it look darn near new. The rental and sandpaper were in the range of $75....it took about 3 hours for < 400 square feet. Highly recommended.

[joe milana]

Our PT deck was getting pretty old and ratty looking...it had been "stained" with stuff the flaked up like paint. After some failed attemps with pressure washing, I ended up renting a drum sander that made short work of the surface and made it look darn near new. The rental and sandpaper were in the range of $75....it took about 3 hours for < 400 square feet. Highly recommended.

How did you deal with the nail/screw heads?

[joe milana]

As an update to an earlier comment I made, the decking I installed was AZEK, not trex. Oops... :o I'll agree with the comments about Trex; I've never heard anything positive about it. Same with the wood/composite hybrid products available at the BORG. In a fit of paranoia, I stopped by this morning & checked on one of my decks, and yep, it still looks new. It definately has a "plastic" look to it, so it may not be for everyone, but it seems to be holding up very well.

[Harry Hagan]

I'm still waiting for something that's durable, reasonably priced, and doesn't look fake.

[trevor adair]

I installed a TREX deck on a customers house about 8 years ago and I was shocked at how easily it scratched, and, it was a dark color and it was almost too hot to stand on in the summer. Don't like the stuff.

My deck is in direct sunlight throughout the day and I can tell you for a fact you have to run across it to prevent burning your feet.. any gatherings we have people have to keep something on their feet and I hose down the surface every 10-15 minutes... hate it

[scott spencer]

How did you deal with the nail/screw heads?

Most were good, some needed to be resunk.

[Kent A Bathurst]

If the question is Trex v Veranda, you should feel completely comfortable with the Veranda product.

In a planet far, far, away, I worked for a company that is one of the suppliers - and there are multiple suppliers that have to meet the specs - of the Veranda product. I will not list any criticisms of the Trex product - that is up to others to do. But, based on my detailed knowledge, my choice would be easy. And - at this point in time, I have no personal interest in the outcome of your decision.

[Shawn Pixley]

Justto make it more complicated, I recommend Choice Deck (Weyerhauser product). I helped a neighbor install the Trex, but when it came to my own deck, I used the Choice Deck. I ended up using marine grade stainless steel screws drilling and countersinking each one. But the deck has held up incredibly well for the last eight years. The material does grey some. My deck is baked by the sun all year and pounded with rain in the winter. Additionally, we have a salt environment (one house from the ocean).

The previous deck was stained redwood and was thirteen years old when I replaced it. I have no interest in any of the products except as a customer.

[Ellen Benkin]

I am in the process of replacing a wooden deck and steps with the Choice Deck material which I get from my local (in Maine) Lowes. The decking has been down for a year and needs to be cleaned but otherwise seems to hold up well. This year I will do the railings with the Choice Deck material but I have to use Trex 4x4 Post Sleeves because Choice Deck doesn't make the sleeves. I think this will be OK since the posts are (obviously) vertical while the deck is (obviously) horizontal and gets all the weather. I hated the wooden deck because I tried to stain it with a Behrs product which peeled in one year and fixing that seemed like a waste of time. I love wood but I will never never use it outdoors again. Yes, the material looks more like plastic than wood but ITS JUST A DECK and a small one at that. I'll give up the look of real wood for no maintanence any day.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Ellen - you touched on a few excellent points.

Staining a deck does not take you out of the yearly or, at best, every other year maintenance.

In my personal opinion, it actually makes life more difficult, because you have an "appearance" that requires attention and upkeep. I am a fan of the "weathered grey" look. Which is not, in itself, a maintenance-free option. Compsites are as close as we can come, other than, say, teak or some other equally expensive non-domestic woods.

Beyond that, there are some good products for staining decks that will last for a number of years - maybe 3 - 5, but they all claim more. You used one that I personally would not have chosen. Good advertising & good shelf space & an attractive price point do not necessarily equate to on-the-wood performance over the long haul. Simply my thoughts.

Last - I gotta ask this - are you in LA, as your ID says, or are you in Maine as your post says? I got no dog in that fight, but if I had my preference, I would lean more toward the northeast, versus the southwest corner of the country. Better lobster. :p

[Ole Anderson]

I have both Trex and Veranda. Trex on the deck attached to the house and Veranda on a deck down by the water. Trex is at least 6 years old, and was before they started putting an anti-fungal into the mix. Supposed to be better now, but I decided to stay away from it when I did the lower deck last summer using Veranda, which was actually less expensive than Trex. The Veranda has a HDPE surface extruded on top of the composite core, so it cleans up (and looks) like plastic. I haven't even power washed it this year, still looks almost new. When I installed the Veranda, I took up the 10 year old Thompsonized 5/4 deck boards and actually resold them on CL. My stringers were 24" OC, so I installed 2x4 stringers at the intermediate points so the new joist span was actually under 12". I used their proprietary SS torx head deck screws which were colored to match the plastic. Downside: I didn't like the very limited color choice available at the time. I would do Veranda again, unless I hit the lottery in which case I would go with Ipe'.

[Lee Schierer]

I have Veranda on both of my decks. It has held up well. I used a hidden fastener system so there are no visible screws.240129240130

What I like is that it isn't too hot to walk on barefoot even in the sun and it doesn't get slick in the winter even with snow on it. I hated how slick the treated lumber would get after it would freeze up when the wood was wet. Home depot will order longer lengths for you if you need them at no extra cost. I clean it once per year with a pressure washer. Be aware that with Veranda your joists need to be on 12" centers.

[Richard Wolf]

Thanks for all your input. It is a very difficult choice when you factor in all the considerations.

[Larry Edgerton]

Hey buddy, know what my favorite deck material is?

CONCRETE!

Next would be AZEK premium, blind screwed using the Camo system but with GRK screws because the Camo screws suck.

If you decide to go the blind screw method I'll send you a Camo guide already modified to use GRK screws. Send it back when you are done.

I also have a boatload of CorTex screws and plugs for AZEK Acacia [color] that I over bought on, can send some of them too.

If you didn't live in the city I might come and help, but no way you are going to get me there....:D

PS: All my decks are concrete, eat your heart out....:p

Larry

[Chris Rosenberger]

Menards has a composite product that is made to be applied over the old flooring. It is called Quick Cap & is 1/2" X 3 1/2". I used it on a friends deck this summer & we were both very happy in how it turned out.
The old deck was in great shape, I renailed the old decking & sand it to get a reasonably flat surface.

Below is a picture of the completed floor. I also used it on the benches & steps. Menards also has a matching 10 1/2" wide cladding board for the deck edges.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o303/chrisrosenb/IMG_2395.jpg

[Jim Falsetti]

I read somewhere Trex had some quality control problems which have been resolved.

We put Trex on nearly ten years ago and are very happy with it. Easy to maintain. No warping or splinters, either. The Trex now has a weathered look. The surface is hot in the summer but so was the real wood stuff we had before.

[frank shic]

richard, have you figured out which fastening method you'll use? the hidden fasteners look great but almost all of them take a lot more time than face screwing. i used deck master undermounted brackets which wouldn't have been so bad if the deck weren't so close to the ground! my wrist was definitely a little more stiff for the next week from holding the impact driver angling upwards at the deck boards (redwood incidentally). if you're not interested in putting in extra bracing for the artificial decking material, you may want to consider just using real wood and if you do decide to go with real wood, make sure you get one of those deck levering jacks (the exact name escapes me right now) to deal with boards that need a little coercing to get into alignment. good luck!

[larry ciccolo]

My neighbor has had his deck totally re-done with Certainteed Everlast product.
It is reasonably cool under foot...supposed to be guaranteed for 20 years.
Supposed to never fade or mildew.
Anyone ever use it ?

[Richard Wolf]

Hey buddy, know what my favorite deck material is?

CONCRETE!

Next would be AZEK premium, blind screwed using the Camo system but with GRK screws because the Camo screws suck.

If you decide to go the blind screw method I'll send you a Camo guide already modified to use GRK screws. Send it back when you are done.

I also have a boatload of CorTex screws and plugs for AZEK Acacia [color] that I over bought on, can send some of them too.

If you didn't live in the city I might come and help, but no way you are going to get me there....:D

PS: All my decks are concrete, eat your heart out....:p

Larry


Concrete, low maintenance right? You know, for most people building a deck is a very appealing project which they meet with a abundance of enthusiasm. For a tried old stairbuilder, the last thing I want to do on my day off is build decks. Anyway, it's something that has to be done, so even without your help, I guess I'll get it done.

Chris= Menards is not an East Coast thing, but the deck looks great.

[Chris Rosenberger]

Chris= Menards is not an East Coast thing, but the deck looks great.

Sorry Richard, I thought they were out that way.

[Sparky Paessler]

There is a new product out in the northeast at Lowes and some other suppliers. Check out Perennial Wood. It's a real wood product that has been plasticized. I think it is priced like Trex but looks like real wood. I'm hoping they will get in my area soon.

[Larry Edgerton]

If you were not so far away I would come and help you, city or not. It would be a riot.

Seriously, if you use a decking that is solid I will pop that screw jig in the mail to you. You can do the same without it but it is much easier on old hands with it.

Later, Larry

[Richard Wolf]

Thanks for the offer Larry. I was looking at those Camo systems, what's wrong with the screws? The sales guy told me it's all about the screws.

If you came to Long Island, you may love it so much, you may not leave. :D

[Larry Edgerton]

Too many of them break, especially in old dry SYP, and with that point design you keep having to switch screws when you have to put some in without the jig, such as the end screws on a board. They just walk sideways without the jig. So you have to change screws and bits.

I use 2 1/2" GRK Trimheads, and the 2" long bits. The CAMO bit is a propriatary bit, but I fooled them. GRK screws use standard bits. I had to redrill the guidebushings on my jigs a bit deeper. Had to use a cobalt bit, tough stuff.

Anyway I don't have any decks coming up if my luck holds out, so rather than throw money away for something you too hope to never use again, let me pop a kit in the mail to you if you go that route. The homeowner model is useless. Pro model is $50. $50 bucks is $50.

Larry

[Clint Baxter]

Have done several decks of Trex here in upper ND and haven't seen any of the mold issues that have seemed to affect Trex. Have used joist spacings of both 12" and 16" and haven't been put off by extra movement in the 16" spacings. Did a large deck on a lake house with a huge reflective front and that deck surface does get HOT when the sun is on it. It faces east so it turns out nicely once the sun moves enough to put the deck into shade though.

A quick note on hidden fasteners. I tried using the EB-TY fasteners on a recent cedar deck and had all kinds of problems with them. Will never go try them again. Used the Trex hidden fastener system and do like it. You need either a groove or a slot on the side, same as the EB-TY, but the clips are more robust than the EB-TY. I leave the clips loose until I have the next deck placed and then tighten down the fasteners sucking both boards down tight. The fasteners are easily accessed between the two deck boards using a #1 Robertson bit. More time involved with using them than face screwing, but really like that finished surface without any screws or plugs showing.

All told, I think that one of the tropical deck woods such as Ipe or Cumaru would be the best material available. Advantage Lumber has had the Cumaru for nearly the same price as Trex.

Clint

[Don Morris]

We had a composite deck 400sq/ft placed 7 years ago and it still looks good. Before that we had Redwood for 20 years. That was beautiful at the beginning, but became a PITA with all the washing, staining, sealing every year to maintain it. The compositie material is "Evergrain". We had the posts and rails done in it too as that was one of the advantages. At the time it was one of the few with posts/rails and trim to match. The only problem is you have tol be careful when you powerwash it as you can tear it up (as you can with wood) with a powerful powerwasher, so keep moving. They only had few colors at the time. Probably have more now. The posts will expand a little so don't put any trim around them at the bottom as the expansion will bust the trim. LOML wanted the fancyl trim at the bottom, but it looks just fine without it. I love it because of the minimal care and once a year powerwash and looks good for the rest of the year. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.