Hollowing Rig Choice - JT's Gizmo vs.Kobra - Anyone use both?

[Glen Blanchard]

I have narrowed my hollowing rig choice down to the Gizmo or the Kobra. I am on a waiting list for the Kobra, but I saw Tom's Gizmo at SWAT this weekend. The Gizmo is indeed heavy duty. The Kobra is supposed to be as well.

Has anyone used both of these? Any insights/opinions?

[Jack Mincey]

While I haven't used both I do use the Kobra and can say with out a doubt you will find it to be very very heavy duty. I looked the Gizmo up and it looks to be a very well designed unit as well. I had free turned for several years before buying the Kobra to hollow deeper forms. I have hollowed up to 13 1/2" deep with the Kobra to date. I still free turn anything less than 9" deep since I like the feel of free turning. This is the biggest advantage the Kobra system has over the other units on the market. It has a handle that comes out of the back so that one can hold it against your hip or under your arm just like free turning. I just don't like to hollow without holding the handle as I do free turning. I have much more control using my body to hollow rather than using just my hands. Using the handle in this manner also lets me hollow very aggressive cutting down the hollowing time a great deal on large forms. The tool rest that comes with the Kobra is outstanding for hollowing with the Kobra as well. It is made of 1" hardened drill rod and has a support on both ends to take out any play one might get toward the end of a standard rest.
Jack

[Richard Madden]

I'm not familiar with the Gizmo...never heard of it before, but I can say the Kobra is definitely heavy duty and well built after seeing and using Dan Kralemann's Kobra. How do the two compare in price?

[rick pixley01]

Can you put a link up to the gizmo...I couldn't find it..Thanks,Rick

[Glen Blanchard]

Here is a link for the Gizmo. If memory serves, it sells for approx. $800 including a boring bar while the Kobra I think is about $800, but does not include the boring bar.

http://www.jtturningtools.com/node/38

[Joe Meirhaeghe]

Glen, while you were at swat did you check out the hollowing system from Advanced Lathe Tools ? Did you go to the Demo By Steve Sinner ? He's the owner and was a one of the featured Demonstrators. He was Demoing his system there. It's very heavy duty, and I've been using it for yrs.

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Just out of curiosity, at what point does a"heavy duty" atriculating system need to be replaced with a captured rig. I hope I said that correctly. My assumption is that all systems work for vessels up to a certain depth and width. Heavier duty articulating rigs may add additional depth but the range of the captured rig is increased merely by using a larger diameter boring bar. Does the heaviest duty articulating rig become flexible at some point? I never see specs concerning how much reach is the maximum for any one rig.
faust

[Glen Blanchard]

Joe - I did not see Steve's demo. However, I did see his booth and it appeared to me that he only offers a captive system and I am more interested in an articulating rig.

From what I have seen in person and online, and from what I have been able to piece together from getting input from users, the Gizmo and the Kobra represent the higher end of articulating rigs. Both of these are robust and heavy duty. I am on the wait list for a Kobra - the problem is that Job, I am not. ;)

[Rick Markham]

Faust, I know they offer a 1 1/4" hardened bar for the Kobra. I also know of several turners going 23" deep with the rig with no vibration, I personally have not (yet.) Part of the allure of the Kobra for me was the very real idea of never needing a captured system. The limiting factor in articulated systems seems less to be about bar diameter and more about the flex induced in the back end. The thrust bearings on the Kobra don't allow any flex in the joints which equals a rock steady system. I rarely even use my 1" bar on my Kobra, most of my turnings are using a 5/8" boring bar set that they make, and I can go 13" easy with little to no vibration at the bottom (obviously I'm not hogging out material at the bottom with that bar.) With the 1" bar there isn't any vibration at that depth (In my experience)

[Joe Meirhaeghe]

Joe - I did not see Steve's demo. However, I did see his booth and it appeared to me that he only offers a captive system and I am more interested in an articulating rig.

From what I have seen in person and online, and from what I have been able to piece together from getting input from users, the Gizmo and the Kobra represent the higher end of articulating rigs. Both of these are robust and heavy duty. I am on the wait list for a Kobra - the problem is that Job, I am not. ;)

Glen, to bad you missed Steve's demo there usually very informative. You are correct the all his systems are captive boring bars.

[Richard Coers]

One of the better design elements of the Kobra is the unequal lengths of the articulated bars. That makes it articulate more easily. Your hollow vessel designs also affect the style of hollower you should purchase. With a captured bar, you usually have to relocate the support to get under deep undercuts on low, squat vessels. Then you relocate the back support to do the rest of the vessel. An articulated rig snakes through small openings to get the undercuts.

[Peter Blair]

Sorry no experience with the Gizmo but just don't see how you could improve on the Kobra. It is soooo smooth and easy to use don't believe it could be better. I have used tools all my life and as a general rule I have found that heavy is good. Yes, the Kobra is heavy but with the new mounting plate it can be on and off in no time. The only problem is what to do with it when it's off the lathe . . . .

[Glen Blanchard]

Peter - I have heard nothing but glowing reports about the Kobra, and as such, I am not really trying to find a better mousetrap. I was, however, wondering if the Gizmo traps those mice just as well as the Kobra does. The biggest downside to the Kobra is the wait to acquire one. My other concern is that Al and Jerry no longer make the Kobra Jr. (designed for mini and midi lathes - I own the midi Delta 46-460). They also once had a version that was convertible for use on a full size lathe and the smaller lathes (for those who owned both). That one is also out of production, and they will have to make modifications to the existing Kobra to make it work with my Delta (Al reports that he thinks he can make it work). What I don't know yet is if, once these modifications are made, my Kobra could be "un-modified" in the event I ever buy a full size lathe. I know that the Gizmo would have this flexibility.

[Peter Blair]

Hey Glen. All good points, the wait was long but worth every minute, sorry I was unaware of the problems you are experiencing as far as fitting to your lathe goes. In my humble opinion I too would want to be assured that if or should I say when you upgrade to a full size lathe the tool can be made to fit it. Good luck!

[Glen Blanchard]

How long was your wait, Peter?

[Peter Blair]

Hi again Glen. I waited just over 6 months but the guys were great in checking and rechecking to be sure I got all the parts I wanted. I bought the 1" bar set, the 5/8 bar set (this one came with two different length bars, an adaptor (really heavy duty) for the 1/2" tool I already had and the laser. As noted earlier they now supply the system assembled and it comes with an angled base that allows it to be set in about 4 different locations and can be placed on the lathe and removed in seconds.

[Scott Hackler]

Here is a link for the Gizmo. If memory serves, it sells for approx. $800 including a boring bar while the Kobra I think is about $800, but does not include the boring bar.

http://www.jtturningtools.com/node/38

Glenn, I think your figure for the Kobra is off by $400 or so. Seems like when I made contact with Al, last year, the setup was around $1200.

I was able to see the Monster and Gizmo (Elbo was there too, but not in the same league to me) articulated hollowers, this weekend. The monster is a good deal at under $500, but the Gizmo looks a lot beefier in person. I don't own any of those setups, but have the Carter Hollow Roller instead. I won it a while back. It is more of a fancy captive hollower.

If you go captive there are a tone of different setups, from Monster to Jameson to Sinner (which might need a engine lift for the large boring bar!).

[Glen Blanchard]

Scott - The information I got from Al a month ago shows the following pricing:

Basic Kobra - $700
Laser Option - $140

They also have a boring bar option for $140, but I think I'll make another purchase for the boring bar. So, $840 not including the boring bar.

I agree with you that the Gizmo seems like a much more robust version of the Monster.




Glenn, I think your figure for the Kobra is off by $400 or so. Seems like when I made contact with Al, last year, the setup was around $1200.

[Jack Mincey]

Glen,
I love my Kobra, but would be hard pressed to buy one for a little lathe like the Delta 46-460. No bigger forms than this lathe is capable of a monster system should prove to be more than enough to use. As I stated earlier I bought my Kobra to hollow forms deeper than 9". I still prefer to hollow anything under 9" free hand, I just love the feel I get when free hollowing. With my Jordan bars and good technique 9" depth is not hard to achieve with very little stress on my body.
Jack

[Glen Blanchard]

Jack - There are two things that make me want to get a hollowing system in spite of the fact that I only have a midi lathe.

First, I want the convenience of laser guided hollowing.
Second, I may someday get a bed extension, and deeper hollowings would follow.