Stanley Chisel type study... Please check this out!

[James Bird]

Ok, so we all know about the 720's and 750's.... Then there are apparently 740's also... I have never seen one (maybe on ebay but not sure) Any idea why they are so rare? or any info on them at all?
Then of course there are the 1251 "defiance" chisels.... apparently of a lesser steel quality....
And then of course the unmarked 720's and 750's ... I have heard these were made in a second foundry (opened due to high demand) and that is why they are marked differently

BUT, apparently there is ANOTHER type of stanley socket chisel floating around also. These are Stanley "Sweetheart" SOCKET chisels.. not everlasting... true socket chisels. I found one on ebay. I have included 3 pics of it. I have never seen these before and all the type studies show nothing about this. Has anyone seen this before? Any thoughts? I'd like to hear people weigh in on this and/or stanley chisels in general as there is no real "comprehensive" type study of ANY Stanley chisels. Not even the ever-popular 750's (which I find odd)

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[James Bird]

There are also apparently another kind of stanley socket chisel, The Stanley "440" chisels. I have seen these mentioned before on one of the stanley sites. But, I have never before seen a picture of them. Until now. Here is a couple pics of an apparent Stanley 440 chisel on the Bay. The Seller referred to it as a 440 but I can not make out the markings in the pics. Not sure if anyone else can. They are pretty cool looking with that knurled ring around the top of the socket!

Again any more info on these OR ANY stanley chisels would be awesome. Like I mentioned the net is pretty much a barren wasteland when it comes to Stanley Chisel information.

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[James Bird]

Sorry to Keep this going... but I would also like to mention that there are also Stanley "D" socket chisels... There are quite a few claims as the what the "D" means. None of them proven, some make more sense than others. I have heard anything and everything from that they are "Defiance" chisels. "Damaged" chisels. That "D" is again another foundry or even that it is some sort of hardware store line. I can say the ones I own and have seen usually have the unstained NON-red lacquer handles. But, I believe I may have also seen one WITH the red handle's. No way to tell if it CAME that way or not.

I have also seen Variations in the "unmarked" stanley chisels. I own a set of 720's that are unmarked and all but one have "stanley" "made in USA" on the socket. Then one has "Made In USA" on the socket, But the Stanley appears down on about the middle of the top side of the actual blade and it is inside the "box" design much like on the Everlasting chisels, or the 440 posted above.

thoughts, Ideas, comments, insults.... ;) anything would be appreciated. Ya'll know more than me!!

All THESE QUESTIONS.... and NO REAL definitive answers or a COMPREHENSIVE place for people to go and find this info out. I really wish there was a Patricks B&G for Stanley Chisel's, Not just planes.....

[James Bird]

Found 2 photo's of stanley 740 chisels for the record. I also remembered now that the 740's were apparently the "Standard" or "bench" size chisels of the group. The 750's being "butt" chisels and the 720's of course were the long pairing variety

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[Rob Lee]

Hi -

From John Walters' book, there are nine pages of chisels, and chisel sets...

#20 - Everlasting Chisel - BE, Heavy Duty
#25 - Everlasting Chisel - firmer, Heavy Duty
#40 - Everlasting Chisel - Cabinet, BE
#45 - Everlasting Chisel - Cabinet, Firmer
#50 - Everlasting Chisel - Butt, BE and Firmer styles
#55 - Everlasting Glaziers Chisel
#160 - Thin Blade Butt Chisel, Socket
#161 - Thin Blade Butt Chisel, Tang
#440 - Socket Chisel, BE (all about 11" long)
#450 - Socket Chisel, BE (8-9 1/2" long)
#720 - Socket Chisel, BE (13-15" long)
#740 - Socket Chisel, BE (12-12 1/2")
#750 - Socket Chisel, Butt, BE (9 1/2 - 10 1/4")
#760 - Socket Chisel, Butt, Thin Blade, BE (7 1/4" - 8 3/8")
#1740 - Socket Chisel, BE ( approx 12")
#1750 - Socket Chisel, BE (9 1/2" - 10")

Cheers -

Rob

[James Taglienti]

how about these239869239870#50 everlasting chisels made for Chicago hardware retailer

[James Taglienti]

440 has a tanged variety also. They are a knock off of swedish type chisels.

[James Pickering]

James (Bird, that is - there are too many people named James participating in this thread!: The following web pages of mine are not in-depth type studies at all, but they may provide some useful information. This first link is to a page which I actually archived - it is just a general overview of the Stanley chisels I used in the 1930s/1940s.

http://jp29.org/wwstanchisels.htm

The second one is devoted to Stanley plastic handled chisels 1930 to the late 1950s. I don't know why Walter didn't include these in his book for they were more expensive than the 720/750/760 chisels.

http://jp29.org/wwstanplastichandles.htm

I have most Stanley catalogs from 1934 - 1950 and I will post chisel page scans if this thread is sustained.

James

[James Taglienti]

I think i am confusing the 161s with the 440s

By the way Sweetheart is just a logo, almost everything made during that era had the heart, including chisels and even some hardware such as hinge plates.

[James Pickering]

Here is the 400 series chisel range from the 1930 Catalog:

http://jp29.org/stancat11.jpg

James

[Frank Drew]

how about these239869239870#50 everlasting chisels made for Chicago hardware retailer

James, I own one and have used others in that line and consider them wonderfully designed bench chisels, both ergonomically and aesthetically, but I don't feel that they don't hold an edge particularly well.

[James Taglienti]

James, I own one and have used others in that line and consider them wonderfully designed bench chisels, both ergonomically and aesthetically, but I don't feel that they don't hold an edge particularly well.

Frank, are you referring to the everlasting line as a whole or just the rebranded ones?

[James Pickering]

.......... I have also seen Variations in the "unmarked" stanley chisels. I own a set of 720's that are unmarked and all but one have "stanley" "made in USA" on the socket. Then one has "Made In USA" on the socket, But the Stanley appears down on about the middle of the top side of the actual blade and it is inside the "box" design much like on the Everlasting chisels, or the 440 posted above.

thoughts, Ideas, comments, insults.... ;) anything would be appreciated ..........
I need to point out that I am not a tool collector but I do love the old tools I depict and describe on my web pages. I am filled with nostalgia and good memories of times past whenever I use any one of them these days. That is their attraction for me.

The woodworking tools I own, and use, today I have painstakingly sought out and purchased from various sources in an attempt to re-create (as best I can) the hand tool kits that I used when I was an apprentice Truck Cab and Body builder at the firm of Oswald Tiilotson, Burnley, Lancashire (northern England) in the late 1940s. These tools are the type and vintage I used during my apprenticeship -- and in the same general condition -- well used but also well cared for. I derive great satisfaction from using tools that still function well after so many years of constant use. For me its really all about nostalgia and affection.

Now to get back on topic - and back to your posting, James.

I have read many theories as to why Stanley stamped the model designation on some tools and not on others (I am sure you have also). One recent theory has it that only those chisels that were sold individually were stamped with the model designation, while those in factory assembled kits were not, thus concluding that surviving vintage chisels without model number stampings were once part of a factory assembled kit (or vice versa). An attractive theory, but what about other tools? The same stamping variances exist with , for instance, Stanley hammers of the period. Check out my Stanley nail hammer page (http://jp29.org/wwstanhammer.htm) where I opine:

"It seems that Stanley changed the style and form of the stampings from time to time. There are variances similar to those found on Stanley wood chisels. I have encountered hammers of this period with only STANLEY (in cartouche) or STANLEY (in cartouche) with MADE IN USA underneath. These variances can also be found in catalog illustrations although it should be noted that those illustrations do not always depict actual production tools."

JP

[James Bird]

I agree that the SW era chisels were infact from the sweetheart era, I do not however agree that they are just 750's or another known chisel, marked with the SW logo... if this was true we would see other examples of them more. I actually think I have found out where the sweetheart marked chisels came from. I believe they were sold inside a tool box set... it came with 2 or 3 chisels... Im not sure if anyone knows what I am talking about but I talked to a local antique dealer who specializes in stanley tools, infact he is basically a guru on anything stanley and he actually has one of said tool box sets with the SW marked socket chisels, and he also believes that they only came in that set and that set only....

[James Bird]

Frank, are you referring to the everlasting line as a whole or just the rebranded ones?

I'm not sure but I think he may be referring to the 1251 Defiance chisels. Those are the only ones that have been mentioned (in this thread) to have lower quality steel and/or edge retention. I could be wrong thought. It happens more than i'd like to admit ;)

[Mike Manning]

I have been wondering about several points raised in this thread originally. I've yet to see a Stanley no. 740 chisel. The one posted by the thread originator is the first. So now I know they did actually exist. I was disappointed the thread only generated 15 comments.

I've started trying to put together sets of Stanley No 720 and 750 chisels. During this time, in most of the old Stanley Tools catalogs I've seen the chisel sets are all stamped with Stanley in the notched rectangle on top of the chisel. None of the 720 or 750 chisels I own are Stanley stamped like this rather they are stamped "Stanley" on the chisel socket. I also do not recall many (almost none) of the 720 and 750 chisels on ebay having this older style stamp either. When did Stanley stop using the older style "Stanley" in a notched rectangle on top of the chisel?


Is anyone aware of any Stanley chisel type studies?

PS It was a bit disconcerting to see several of the thread posters last postings were in 2020. I hope they are all well and just interested in other hobbies.

[Mike Manning]

Well, clearly with over 7,000 views and only 16 comments (now 17) there isn't much interest in chisels. This morning I spotted what looked like some great condition No. 720 chisels on ebay. Turns out they aren't No. 720. But checking John Walter's Stanley Tools book didn't show anything for No. 1221 under chisels nor under Stanley's Defiance Tools. However, I found others that are clearly stamped "DEFIANCE", "By Stanley", "No. 1221" and "Made in USA". The "By Stanley" is underlined on these chisels. These all look just like the 720 chisels. I wonder if Stanley used the same steel or a poorer grade. Wasn't Defiance a cheaper line for Stanley? A quick google search just answered my own question. The Defiance line was started in 1929 with the Great Depression to provide people with cheaper but quality tools. Does anyone have any of these Defiance chisels and can compare them with the 720 and 750 lines?

Maybe a question I should have asked elsewhere - Does anyone use Stanley 720 & 750 chisels and if so how do they like them? Is the steel any good? And this may just lead back to understanding if/how/when the steel may have changed in these chisels over the decades they were sold by Stanley.

My apologies for perpetuating a thread of little interest. :0)

[Jim Koepke]

One of my chisels is marked Defiance. My recollection is it doesn't have the Stanley name on it anywhere.

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The sides were rough like they had been sawn:

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This picture was taken after a lot of time spent sanding and honing the sides. It was like this the full length on both sides of the chisel.

It is now used as my few thousandths less than a 1/4" chisel.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

Returning to the subject of type studies, according to Stanley Tools by John Walter Stanley didn't start making chisels until 1911. These were of the Everlasting design. Socket chisels with the Stanley name didn't appear until 1926.

The only changes to the chisels for any type designation would likely be the logo used.

jtk

[Mike Manning]

I guess you're right Jim. Not the kind of substantial changes with a chisel as there were with planes. I'd still be interested to know when Stanley stopped stamping their chisels with "Stanley" in the notched rectangle just out of curiosity. I see very few 720 or 750 chisels stamped with that logo on ebay even though most of the old catalogs I've seen that's all that there is. I need to look at more of the few catalogs available. Thanks for sharing!

[Jim Koepke]

To me it would be kind of cool to find a chisel with the 'V' logo:

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jtk