Pinned Tool Rest Issues?

[Jim Oakley]

So, i've recently purchased a pinned tool rest from PSI to fit my new Jet 1642.
It allows me to REALLY hog though roughing the profile of a bowl...
My question is, could the force I'm exerting have any adverse impact on the spindle stock, pulley, or motor?

239804

[Dale Bright]

Jim, I am not sure why you would need to use a fulcrum and that much force if you present a sharp tool to the wood properly.

Dale

[Jim Oakley]

It's not like i'm leaning into it, really...
Mostly it's just when rounding blanks, instead of having the tool bounce around and "beat me up..."
It smooths out the job.

Plus, it's not real cool to jump to the conclusion that I don't know what I'm doing.
I pretty sure I asked a valid question, that you didn't answer, and insulted me at the same time.
Sure, I'm a novice... but try to be nice.

Jim

[Sid Matheny]

I can see if you are having a problem with your tools slipping on your tool rest where a pinned tool rest could help and not just for a newbie. And no I don't thing there will be any damage to your lathe as long as you don't try to manhandle the tools as you are cutting.

Sid

[Rick Markham]

I don't think you could do any damage other than it's another pinch point for your fingers if your aren't paying attention.

[Jim Oakley]

thanks, guys... was just concerned after upgrading to the 1642 from a second-hand HF lathe and the noticable amount more I could do...
I wanted to make sure the stuff I could do, I should...
Rick, I did get my finger caught once (only a little pinch)... won't do that again.

[Rick Markham]

OUCH! I've always been very careful, and I've made mistakes. It's a painful lesson to learn, but fortunately one not easily forgotten. I had my enlightening experience with a scraper inside of a bowl when I was starting, I managed to get a catch (don't ask :o) and it slammed the scraper flat on the tool rest and the very tiniest edge of my pinky was just a wee bit too far forward. :eek: Boy did that sting, I'll tell ya what, I'm extra careful now. :D

[Reed Gray]

I have never understood the pins in the tool rest idea. Mostly, you are not trying to lever the tool as much as your back hand pushes (gas pedal to determine how thick of a shaving you are taking off), and your body steers/pivots (adjusts for hair thin or 1/2 inch wide or more shavings). If I could see you standing at the lathe that might help. It does look like your tool rest is low. Hands on lessons REALLY help.

I'm out of town for a few days.

robo hippy

[Michelle Rich]

I think the pin would break before you could push hard enough to screw up your Jet or push the bowl off your chuck....but why are you pushing so hard? Turning is a game of technique & sharp tools. Relax and have fun..don't try to manhandle

[Roger Chandler]

Plus, it's not real cool to jump to the conclusion that I don't know what I'm doing.
I pretty sure I asked a valid question, that you didn't answer, and insulted me at the same time.
Sure, I'm a novice... but try to be nice. Jim

Jim,

I am pretty sure that Dale in his post above was being nice.........and certainly not insulting you. Most everyone who posts here on SMC, fondly referred to by most of us as "the creek" are very helpful and are wanting to assist in the learning process for others.

Your using a pinned tool rest is something that is not needed with good technique and sharp tools..........the vast majority of turners do not use a pinned rest most of the time..........that is not to say that there are not situations where one might come in handy, but it is not the norm.

I would not consider myself a novice turner..........I have owned a lathe since 2003..........I still learn things from others, and a lot of the knowledge base I have in turning, I have acquired from my interaction on this forum, which has been for three years. I did not think in any way the tone of Dale's post was insulting..........he was asking so as to draw your rationale for using a pinned rest.........which is in most cases not necessary.

Are you a member of a turning club? Some hands on mentoring would serve you very well in the learning curve and help with things like tool presentation to the wood, sharpening tools correctly and many other technical aspects of wood turning.

No assumptions on my part about how experienced you are.....after all the turning I have done, I still pick up good suggestions and techniques here.........just like the others who posted on this thread, I am trying to be helpful...........there is a wealth of experience here and in a turning club..........I would encourage you to take advantage of both.........and check your ego at the door........really, the folks here are trying to be helpful to you!

[Dale Miner]

I think you will be putting more loading on the headstock bearing with the spindle adapter than you will by levering the tool into the blank. If you consistently take a cut with the pinned rest (or without the pinned rest) that stalls the lathe, then you might be putting a overload strain on the drive belts,motor, and vfd.

I've used a fulcrum pin before when doing deep hollowing, as is helps in control of the tool when there is a great deal over the rest. I've seen others use a pin on the end of a rest, but it is usually used to prevent the tool from slipping off the end when doing hollowing.

I wouldn't worry about the use of the fulcrum pin. If it works for you, then it works.

[Dale Bright]

It's not like i'm leaning into it, really...
Mostly it's just when rounding blanks, instead of having the tool bounce around and "beat me up..."
It smooths out the job.

Plus, it's not real cool to jump to the conclusion that I don't know what I'm doing.
I pretty sure I asked a valid question, that you didn't answer, and insulted me at the same time.
Sure, I'm a novice... but try to be nice.

Jim

Jim, I jumped to no conclusion about your abilities or experience. I simply see no need for a pinned tool rest. I should have formed my response as a question so I might learn why one is beneficial. I meant no insult and I do not know the answer to the bearings issue you brought up but I suspect there would be no issue on the big Jet you have. If my little statement about proper technique and sharp tools insulted you, then I apologize, it was not meant as an insult. Should I be insulted by your assumption that I jumped to conclusions about your experience when I have no knowledge about how long you have been turning?

Have a good day,

Dale

[John Keeton]

Jim, Dale, both of you have had your say on the collateral issues, so let's let this thread remain on topic from here out. Thanks!

[Thom Sturgill]

FWIW, the pinned rests are for metal spinning where a lot of pressure is needed, and yes I believe metal spinning on a wood lathe is pushing the bearing and spindle design. Probably no harm in the short term, but a bearing replacement would be the eventual result.

Using the pins for wood turning is probably not going to result in any where near as much side pressure, but as others have said, with a properly sharpened gouge, and proper technique hardly necessary. I once saw a demo where Stuart Batty runs a pass on the inside of a bowl using one hand on the end of the gouge handle and produces a clean cut.

No insult meant, but if you are 'getting beat up' I suggest you need to get some help on sharpening. I know it was (and still is sometimes) the hardest thing for me to realize that my gouge was not sharp enough. I takes learning first hand what a truly sharp gouge can do to make you go back to the grinder when you start to see the first sign of a dull blade.

[Jim Oakley]

Dale,
I appreciate the note.
It can be hard to convey context and tone in text, sometimes... and I read you're response as something like, "If you knew a little about turning, you wouldn't need any fancy helper stuff.."
I apologize for the misunderstanding.

[Pat Scott]

With a pinned rest your gouge can only cut in an arc because the tool is being pivoted on a fixed point. When roughing the outside of a bowl the pin might be a help if you're just starting the cut and trying to cut through bark and an out of round blank. But after the gouge enters the wood then you want to leave the pin so you can follow the outside shape of the bowl. Don't try and cut the whole outside profile with the tool against the pin.

To overcome the bark, bounce, etc., for roughing out, I bought a Thompson 3/4" gouge with 20" weighted handle. The big gouge and weighted handle helped a lot. I agree with everything said about making sure it's sharp. All that bark and rough cutting will dull an edge quickly, even with a good quality gouge. If you find yourself fighting to push the gouge through, or if it's bouncing, that's when you know it's way past time to sharpen. With a sharp gouge (I ground my wings back pretty far), I can routinely take a 3/4" to 1" wide cut with no problem. That's a big shaving, and I didn't start out that big. I've worked up to it over the years while developing my technique and experience.

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

I can't imagine you will damage the lathe in any way with a pinned rest. I am pretty sure the belt will slip or the motor would stall if you used too much leverage. It is funny you mentioned a pinned tool rest. I was watching a documentary on the Moulthrop family on PBS. They turn giant hollow forms and vases. When I say giant, I mean they make some a full grown man can fit inside. They have cutting bars to match and were using pinned tool rests to leverage the cutters into the wood. You can see them of you look up PBS Crafts in America.

[Jim Oakley]

Faust,
Oh My God, I just awatched that PBS segment online! That's fantastic.
I hope to one day be good enough to teach my (future) kids.
Thanks for the heads up.
Jim