Table saw rust issue

[Kevin Schlossberg]

Hey guys

I'm relatively new to woodworking and like probably legions ahead of me, should have read more before doing things. In my case, I purchased a JET saw, assembled it, cleaned off the cast iron top with mineral spirits and then failed to put a protectant atop the freshly cleaned surface. So, I've got some mild surface corrosion setting in, mostly in the shape of various fingerprints.

http://i.imgur.com/YDHq9l.jpg (http://imgur.com/YDHq9)

Sorry about the terrible photo quality.

In doing research, people have recommended using kerosene and steel wool to remove the surface corrosion, so I've attacked it with 0000 and it doesn't seem to be coming off. Similarly I've used a blue scotchbrite pad and that has done nothing, even when on the bottom of a random orbital sander. I am really paranoid about putting a dip in the top, so I could use feedback on which level of sandpaper or steel wool would be recommended.

I have plenty of green scotchbrites but again, don't want to screw up my table top. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Once all this brown stuff is gone, I've got plenty of johnsons paste wax ready to go, a heat gun ready to melt it into the pores, and I've precut a plywood cover for the saw.

[Stephen Cherry]

barkeepers friend- it's a mild acid available at walmart near the cleaners

[Kevin Schlossberg]

I use Bon Ami at the house for various surfaces, that's comparable yes? Will the acid the barkeeper's friend mar the surface?

[glenn bradley]

+1 on BK's friend. If the stains have been left for awhile, a more aggressive acid-based product is Boeshield's Rust Free. READ THE DIRECTIONS. This is a caustic poroduct and cannot just set on the surface while you take your own sweet time in getting on with it ;-). Used properly I have pulled out deep stains in cast iron with great results. Boeshield's T-9 protection is hailed by many. I find it has too much friction no matter how much I buff. This could be an environmental/geographic thing. I use Johnson's Paste Wax with great results but, I understand it is not adequate in humid or salty locations. Inland desert in SoCal; it works great.

P.s. Body oil in fingerprints or dripping sweat are the pits for cast iron ;-(

[Jim Rimmer]

[QUOTE=glenn bradley;1971719 P.s. Body oil in fingerprints or dripping sweat are the pits for cast iron ;-([/QUOTE]

Nice pun. :D

[David Hawxhurst]

i use crc 3-36. t-9 works just didn't care for it much. i think 3-36 much better. wd-40 works, thats what i used in the past before discovering t-9 and 3-36.

[Kevin Schlossberg]

Any feedback on particular abrasives to use? Is a green scotchbrite on an orbital sander going to screw up the table?

[Mitchell Garnett]

I live in the humid, rainy Seattle area so rust is something I always have to deal with. I've had great luck with both Barkeeper's Friend and WD-40, both used with green scotch brite. Only once or twice have I resorted to 0000 steel wool.

Following the "ounce of prevention" adage, I've tried several approaches to keeping the surfaces rust free but I seem to have had the best luck with Slip It sliding compound: http://www.slipit.com/prodline.html

Hope this helps.

[Stephen Cherry]

Any feedback on particular abrasives to use? Is a green scotchbrite on an orbital sander going to screw up the table?

Green scotchbrite with a slurry of barkeepers friend. Then a quick wipe with paper towels, then green scotchbrite with wd40. Also, I'm sure you know, the stians don't hurt anything except your pride.

[Myk Rian]

barkeepers friend- it's a mild acid available at walmart near the cleaners

+1, 2, 3, or whatever.

After cleaning, spread on furniture paste wax, (NEVER USE AUTO WAX WITH SILICON) melt it in with a heat gun or hair dryer, then buff it up.

[Cody Colston]

I think you may be a bit overly cautious about putting a dip into the TS top. On the few occassions I've had rust on mine (the worst from a piece of PT lumber left on it overnight) I've used WD-40 with a P220 grit sanding pad on the ROS.

For protection from rust, FWW magazine did a recent test to determine the most effective. The top seven performers were CRC Industrial 3-36, LPS3, Moovit, Rust Block, WD-40, WD-40 long-term Corrosion Inhibitor, and 3M Rust Fighter. None of those products interfered with top coats of finish and only the LPS3 resisted glue adhesion.

I personally use JPW but don't have a humidity problem in my shop, either. If you do, you might consider one of those products listed above.

[William Addison]

I've posted this before but it never got much traction.

I live in one of the most corrosive areas of the country on the South Texas gulf coast. Only the folks in southern to central Florida are close with rust problems.

I just spent several days cleaning my shop and doing maintenance on the tools and rust was a major factor in my work, there were spots of rust on every tool even though I fight it constantly.


I've tried everything I can find on the market except Evap O Rust-think that's the name. I use a product named Ospho which you can Google, I don't think it is readily available in many places but it works incredibly well for me. I use a maroon pad, put some Ospho on the surface, and scrub briefly. I wipe it off, flood the surface with something like WD40, wipe that off and apply a rust preventative. Don't let the stuff dry or you'll have more work than you want to do.

[Mark Leu]

I get a lot of rust on my cast iron also. I have used 320 grit sandpaper and higher as well as just about any type of steel wool with no problems of hurting the overall flatness of the table. I haven't been brave enough to try 220 grit as one poster mentioned but as long as you don't concentrate your effort in one spot for any significant duration, I can't imagine it would be a problem. Still haven't found the ultimate rust prevention solution yet either, but as many mentioned, frequent applications of paste wax seem to ge the best results.

[David Weaver]

I use Bon Ami at the house for various surfaces, that's comparable yes? Will the acid the barkeeper's friend mar the surface?

Bon ami would be fine. That and barkeepers friend are the two that all clad recommends if I can recall correctly, so they won't be harsh.

I gave trying to keep my saw tables perfect (I only have one saw left now, anyway) and I use a 600 grit friable stone to remove rust. It is so much faster than anything else, and if I ever felt the need to make the surface uniform to sight, it would take very little time to go over the whole surface with a fine grit of sandpaper.

If I was worried about water on the surface, then I'd use a small soft arkansas stone (with a light oil) or something like that, a small piece would be really cheap, and it won't mark deeply but it will still chew the rust off easily.

A quick wipe with a paper towel after you use the stone and all of the rust and abrasive are long gone then.

[Kevin Schlossberg]

Update: hit it with the green scotchbrite on the orbital sander. Most of the corrosion is gone, and the surface feels very smooth with wax on it. There's still a light amount on there, and I'll use bon ami when it starts spreading again. Thanks for everyone's help

[Lonnie Gallaher]

I know this is old, but I thought I would share what I saw in an old Power Matic table saw user manual.

3. The table surface must be kept clean and
free of rust for best results. An occasional
coat of paste wax on the table will allow the
wood stock to glide smoothly across the
work surface.
An alternative is white talcum powder
applied with a blackboard eraser rubbed in
vigorously once a week to fill casting pores
and form a moisture barrier. This method
provides a table top that is slick and allows
rust rings to be easily wiped from the
surface. It is also important to note that
talcum powder will not stain wood or mar
finishes as wax pickup can.

I thought the talcum powder was interesting. Does anyone do this.


Even in sunny southern California, rust will creep in.

[Dick Brown]

I refurbish old table saws as a hobby and some of them have a LOT of rust on them. Many of the old Craftsman saws still have the milling marks visible as they were not polished real well when new. I read a lot of fear posts about making "Dips" in the top with sand paper. Let me tell you that if it weren't for starting with 100 grit paper and a belt sander on some of them, used with a bit of common sense and not stopped in one place, I would never get them cleaned up. If making a "Dip" were a big problem, how come I never get all the mill marks removed? Just my experience.

[Lud martinson]

When I was rebuilding my pm66 I bought another top and wing that were in far better condition. I commented on how slick the surfaces felt. Talcum powder was his final treatment. This from a guy living on the coast just south of San Francisco.

[Bill McNiel]

I use Naval Jelly with 0000 steel wool to clean ugly rust on saw tops and then coat with Boeshield (sp?).

[Michael Mayo]

Bar Keepers Friend has Oxalic Acid as it's main ingredient. I use Oxalic Acid on my fiberglass boat to remove the stains left on the white hull from some of the nastier harbors I frequent. Also Naval Jelly uses Oxalic Acid. It removed rust stains on the bright white fiberglass hull of my boat with no scrubbing at all. Just spray it on and let it sit a couple of minutes and then hose it off. If it doesn't hrt the fiberglass I am pretty sure it is perfectly fine on a cast iron saw table. I persnally like the sand paper/ROS approach when it is really bad. My jointer and bandsaw both needed the ROS treatment and they both came out sparkling using 220/320 combo. Then I hit them with Johnson's Patse wax and they are like new again and have not had an appreciable rust bild up since using the paste wax regularly.

[Bob Wingard]

a more aggressive acid-based product is Boeshield's Rust Free. READ THE DIRECTIONS. This is a caustic poroduct and cannot just set on the surface while you take your own sweet time in getting on with it(

??? ACID or CAUSTIC ??? can't be both ???

MSDS from several years ago says it contains Phosphoric Acid ... no mention of any ingredients that would raise the pH

[Jim Wiskus]

I see a lot of reference to using bar keepers friend. What do you mix it with to develope a paste, 3-36 or do you use it dry? Thanks!

[Mike Henderson]

I just sand the cast iron with my ROS.

Mike

[Brian Henderson]

I think you may be a bit overly cautious about putting a dip into the TS top. On the few occassions I've had rust on mine (the worst from a piece of PT lumber left on it overnight) I've used WD-40 with a P220 grit sanding pad on the ROS.

I'll start off with naval jelly and 0000 steel wool, go up to 220 with an ROS, then switch to a sheet sander and go up to 1200 grit if I'm really crazy. Makes the top feel like silk. Then a really nice paste wax coating and buff with an automotive buffer. Slicker than snot and stays dead flat.

[richard b miller]

i just purchased a 4yo P0715 TS that has minor rust and some staining. i read about Evapo Rust so i headed to my local walmart, only to find they no longer carry it, so
this article was perfect timing!
i was wondering about CLR? it is a rust remover? any thoughts? also, if i'm not mistaken, isn't wd40 made up WITH water? thats why we never used it on our hunting rifles.

[richard b miller]

i'll answer myself... DON'T USE CLR! read another post from somewhere and it turns the table a light brown

[Robert Engel]

Any feedback on particular abrasives to use? Is a green scotchbrite on an orbital sander going to screw up the table?
I use it all the time with either WD40 or PB blaster.
Follow with brake cleaner to remove oil.
Coat with Boeshield.

[Brian Henderson]

Any feedback on particular abrasives to use? Is a green scotchbrite on an orbital sander going to screw up the table?

It won't hurt a thing. I use an old sander and green pads all the time with abrasives and it cleans things up great. You'll have to continue with finer and finer grits to get out all of the scratches, of course, green pads are quite coarse.

[Terry Thillemann]

Perfect timing for me also. I purchased a new TS just before Thanksgiving and just noticed some fingerprint rust looking marks developing.

I'm a bit confused regarding which method to try first, second, last. I'd prefer not to have the top look inconsistent, have to go through more steps than necessary, etc. Since the marks just appeared, is there a method here which will be easiest to try first?

[Joe Spear]

I know this is old, but I thought I would share what I saw in an old Power Matic table saw user manual.

3. The table surface must be kept clean and
free of rust for best results. An occasional
coat of paste wax on the table will allow the
wood stock to glide smoothly across the
work surface.
An alternative is white talcum powder
applied with a blackboard eraser rubbed in
vigorously once a week to fill casting pores
and form a moisture barrier. This method
provides a table top that is slick and allows
rust rings to be easily wiped from the
surface. It is also important to note that
talcum powder will not stain wood or mar
finishes as wax pickup can.

I thought the talcum powder was interesting. Does anyone do this.


Even in sunny southern California, rust will creep in.


I have heard that about talcum powder before. Does it have to be real talcum (which is a mineral based product)? I think baby powders and other kinds of powder have a cornstarch base, which might absorb moisture and cause more rusting.

[Jon Endres]

I get rust spots on my table saw and jointer occasionally, just enough to annoy me. It's usually sweat drops or fingerprints. In the past I've used a little bit of machine oil and a maroon scotch-brite pad to remove the rust, although it does leave a discoloration in the metal that no amount of scrubbing (at least, no amount I'm willing to attempt) is going to remove.

I have good success now with a paste (call it "toothpaste" consistency) of Barkeeper's Friend and a green pad, will get the rust off immediately. If it's deep or pitted, leave the paste on for a few minutes. Then I will wipe it clean with denatured alcohol, let it dry, and follow up with Butcher's Paste Wax and mechanical buffing. Have never tried talcum powder. Still might get some discoloration but not as bad as it used to be.

For bad rust I use electrolysis. I'm not pulling any punches.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Where do you live Kevin? If you are near Columbus Ohio, I have a few different things that you can try. For example:



A rust eraser
steel wool and some oil that i was told was intended to do this (bought it at a gun show years ago, this stuff is old and very thick like a jelly, no idea what it really is).
environmentally safe rust dissolver. I do not remember the brand off hand, but it worked well for me when I removed rust from a table saw top years ago.
Moral support :D yes, I will watch you fix your table saw

[fred woltersdorf]

i just purchased a 4yo P0715 TS that has minor rust and some staining. i read about Evapo Rust so i headed to my local walmart, only to find they no longer carry it, so
this article was perfect timing!
i was wondering about CLR? it is a rust remover? any thoughts? also, if i'm not mistaken, isn't wd40 made up WITH water? thats why we never used it on our hunting rifles.

I buy evapo rust at harbor freight.

[Joe Spear]

i just purchased a 4yo P0715 TS that has minor rust and some staining. i read about Evapo Rust so i headed to my local walmart, only to find they no longer carry it, so
this article was perfect timing!
i was wondering about CLR? it is a rust remover? any thoughts? also, if i'm not mistaken, isn't wd40 made up WITH water? thats why we never used it on our hunting rifles.

WD 40 is not made with water. It displaces water. You can look it up on line to see basically what's in it. Evapo-Rust does have water in it. In fact, the label says you can dilute it with water to keep it topped up. It does work for iron and steel soaked in it, but I don't think it would be useful to scrub away rust on a flat iron surface. It takes time to work and would evaporate before any real effect on the surface rust.

[Matt Burns]

+1 for Boeshield Rust Free.

Best product out there for rust prevention is Renaissance Wax. It's a little expensive, but a little dab'll do ya.

[Jim Andrew]

When I used to heat my shop only when working, I had rust on my table tops. Tried wax, boeshield, nothing worked to keep them clean. Then I got a bright idea, and cleaned up the tops and wiped on a thin coat of exterior finish. Now, propane is reasonable again, so I leave the heat on, and the tops stay clean. The finish is getting about worn off. The finish kept the tops clean.

[Bill Orbine]

You can also go with Scotchbrite maroon. It's a little bit more aggressive than the Scotchbrite green and attacks the more stubborn spots/stains better. Use under sander.

[John T Barker]

barkeepers friend- it's a mild acid available at walmart near the cleaners

There is a thread elsewhere about a guy using barkeeper's friend on a table saw and he got terrible results. Same guy? (Yeah, I'm too lazy to check.)