Pattern bits for router.

[Joe Hillmann]

I make 50 or so rubberband guns a week (sell at craft shows) out of 3/4 inch pine. The way I make them now involves the drill press, table saw, bandsaw and router. The turn out pretty good but there are differences between each one. I have never used pattern cutting router bit before, I think that if I made a pattern out of hardboard I could then use a pattern cutting bit to cut out the guns. So I guess my question is, would a pattern bit be able to cut through 3/4 pine without burning? Would it be faster or at least as fast as cutting on a bandsaw? And would it leave a nicer final cut then a bandsaw?

[Stephen Cherry]

An inverted pin router could turn those out super fast without even half a thought.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?179770-Upside-down-gloat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmad-5JIqBc

They turn up from time to time at the auctions, craigslist, etc

[Joe Hillmann]

Another question, to use the pattern bits does the outline of the piece of wood have to be somewhat close edge of the pattern? What I mean is do I have to cut the rough shape out on the band saw then use the pattern bit to get it perfect or can I skip the bandsaw all together?

[Stephen Cherry]

with a pin router you can skip the bandsaw.

[Stephen Cherry]

Here's a pattern of a bracket.


239744

[Peter Kelly]

Could also find someone with a CNC to cut the blanks out for you. Plenty of shops are slow these days.

Iturra Design also makes a pattern cutting jig that fits most 14" bandsaws.

[pat warner]

"pattern bit be able to cut through 3/4 pine without burning?"
***************************
I suspect burning, whence cutting full thickness, should be expected in your pine.
The turns/twists and size of the work will make it difficult for you to minimize dwell and thus burning.
Table routing may be the best choice if the work is well pinned to its templet.
Some cutlery choices. (http://patwarner.com/images/cutlery.jpg)
(http://Some cutlery choices.)

[Keith Hankins]

I just bought a whiteside 1" cl pattern bit yesterday for making tenons on bed rails. I would do what you want a tat different. I'd make my pattern out of mdf or hardwood, then trace with a pencil cut close on the bs, then use the carpet tape to put the pattern down and go around the blank(bearing riding against pattern).

I make wine cabinets and to make the bottle holder racks that are basically a 5" 2.5" with holes drilled and then it's split in two. I cut the drawn semi-circle's on the BS (close to the line) tape them down to the master and then use a template bit to pare it back. works it great. I would also suggest you get a long one and tape as many together as you can and cut them all at once. Use good carpet tape to tape your pieces together. I cut them together and then rout them together. It takes a little time to do the taping but production cutting makes that up in spades. The parts will be consistent. If you are going to do it in a router table, I'd reccomend bottom bearing bit. If you are going to do hand-held on a noskid surface (I would not reccommend), then I would use a bearing on top. Just me.

[Jim Rimmer]

Another question, to use the pattern bits does the outline of the piece of wood have to be somewhat close edge of the pattern? What I mean is do I have to cut the rough shape out on the band saw then use the pattern bit to get it perfect or can I skip the bandsaw all together?

No offense meant to the other answers but to get to your question without using a pin router or CNC machine which you may or may not have access to: Yes, it would be best to put the pattern on the pine (with double sided tape) cut on the band saw within 1/16 to 1/8" with the BS then before you remove the pattern, clean up with the pattern bit. Cutting that small amount should eliminate burning given the right feed rate and a sharp bit.

Now, having said that, maybe you want to invest in a pin router. I have no experience with them but you can get lots of help here.

[Jim Neeley]

Joe,

"Will it replace the need for a bandsaw?"

No, you want to rough-cut the blank to within 1/8"-1"4" of the final size before employing the pattern bit, to enable avoiding burning.

"Will a good patter router bit leave a better finish than a bandsaw?"

Very much so, assuming you trim it as above and feed the router fast enough in the cut.

Most people feed the router too slowly (or don't clean the bits), which cause burning. The blade has to maintain contact with a fixed spot of wood long enough to char the wood. If you are new to this, realize that the optimum speed is almost always faster than your initial comfort level. Run a few tests and then, if there is burning, repeat at a faster feed rate. It's a balance; a close trim makes a fast feed easy and the fast beed makes for a clean cut but a close trim takes more care in cutting, hence more time.

Not to dissuade you here, the router's the way to go after the bandsaw trim; just offering a few hints. <g>

[Bill Huber]

I do a lot of pattern cutting, if I am going to make more then one of an item I make a pattern.

The way it works for me and the bits I use.

Make my pattern.
Using turners tape, tape it to the stock.
Cut on the band saw with duplicating pin.
Then to the router table with a top and bottom bearing bit.

Band saw pin.
239788

Router Bit, with a top and bottom bearing you can always raise the bit and use the bottom bearing when the grain it going the wrong way.

[johnny means]

I do lots and lots of pattern cutting with a 3/4" pattern bit. Usually, I'm cutting 18mm Baltic Birch, very rough on cutters. I literally, just attach my pattern to an entire sheet, throw it all up on my giant router table and start pushing it through the bit. I don't make any cuts before hand, I don't even size the panel first, just hog out a 3/4" kerf right around what ever shape I'm making. Of course, my tooling pays the price. I use insert bits for this reason.

I think your pine might be problematic with this approach though. Cutting complex shapes would lead to certain points being vulnerable to splitting. You would need to map out a path through your work piece that allowed for relief cuts at these weak points. You would also need to determine if you wanted to start buying your cutters by the dozen. I would use 1/2" bits if I did what you do.

[Phillip J Allen]

In "Tage Frid Teaches Woodworking: Furniture Making" he discusses routing & final shaping of chair legs using a plywood sandwich. I used that technique for 8 arts-and-crafts chair legs (1 5/8 thick) made from red oak. I had not problem after I roughed them out with a band-saw. The sandwich concept also keep the wood off your bench so you can do the entire thick at one time if you router can handle it. For my 1 5/8 square oak legs I did take multiple increasing depth of cuts if my band-saw cut was too far away from my true line.

But it does take a bit of practice!

Phil

[Joe Hillmann]

I would like to thank everyone for there responses. First I can't justify buying a pin router to make toys with, so that is out. If I have to cut the blank out with the bandsaw before using the router bit then that adds time and time adds cost so I don't think I will bother with the router bit.

Bill,
I have never heard of a duplicating pin on a band saw. Could you give me more information on it? I think that could be a step up from how I am cutting them now but not add an extra step and time like using a pattern bit would.

I have also thought of making them out of 1/2" maple and cutting them with the laser then using a smaller round over bit in the router to round the edges but I don't know how people would respond to them being made of thinner wood.

[Stephen Cherry]

First I can't justify buying a pin router to make toys with, so that is out.



Joe- There are all types of pin routers for all budgets. One could have been had on fleabay today for 450:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/onsrud-inverted-router-/221103474917?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item337acb48e5
THis is a nice deal considering it has a big Porter cable router in it, and an INDUSTRIAL lift and table.

Or heres a handy kit for 48 bucks:
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/daisypin.html

One of the big advantages of the pin router is that you don't need to use bearing bits- which are more expensive, and usually bigger. Something like a 1/4 spiral upcut could take you from start to finished pretty quickly. For a pattern, you just use a toy that you have and tape or nail it to a piece of wood. It seems to me that the savings in bits could justify the 48 dollars, but I don't know the economies involved.

[Peter Quinn]

Those CR Onsrud pin routers are pretty serious, they can cut 1 3/4" blanks without cutting first, but thats a big bill to make what you are making. I'm thinking you are pretty much at the best method now, you could add a flush it trim to pattern operation at the end to increase consistency, but otherwise, you can't do much better without a major investment in machinery. The outsourcing to a CNC thing is probably more realistic. Pattern bits on a router table don't like to take much more than 1/16"-1/8", they will of course, but they don't like it.

Me, I'd put a good scrolling blade on the BS and have at it. Keep your fingers in tack, but work towards the land speed record. Then make one perfect pattern, trim to that.

[Stephen Cherry]

Those CR Onsrud pin routers are pretty serious, they can cut 1 3/4" blanks without cutting first,

I'm just talking about the little one- It has a big PC router with a foot powered lift. In the world of CNC, they are available for giveaway prices. Or the little 48 dollar kit would work OK also. I bought one a while back, and a friend looked at it and laughed it off. A couple of months later he showed up with a pattern for a splat, and some mahogany. I gave him the 2 minute rundown, and he was done in not much longer than that.

[Peter Kelly]

I have never heard of a duplicating pin on a band saw. Could you give me more information on it? I think that could be a step up from how I am cutting them now but not add an extra step and time like using a pattern bit would.
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=18055

If you don't already have them, you'll need some narrow blades and some cool blocks as well.

[Peter Quinn]

I'm just talking about the little one- It has a big PC router with a foot powered lift. In the world of CNC, they are available for giveaway prices. Or the little 48 dollar kit would work OK also. I bought one a while back, and a friend looked at it and laughed it off. A couple of months later he showed up with a pattern for a splat, and some mahogany. I gave him the 2 minute rundown, and he was done in not much longer than that.


That Youtube video you linked shows a guy making electric guitar body blanks in a single pass on a large one with 5HP+ motor. Those make me drool. Its not that I need one, or do anything that even vaguely requires one, but the tool junkie in me wants the "capacity". I didn't realize they had a router driven model. Does it have that same great rising mechanism and DC as the induction motor models? How heavy are the router based models?

[Stephen Cherry]

That Youtube video you linked shows a guy making electric guitar body blanks in a single pass on a large one with 5HP+ motor. Those make me drool. Its not that I need one, or do anything that even vaguely requires one, but the tool junkie in me wants the "capacity". I didn't realize they had a router driven model. Does it have that same great rising mechanism and DC as the induction motor models? How heavy are the router based models?

Yes- the big machines are nice. Some have 10 hp going into a router bit. I read somewhere that they had a shaper spindle available for it, so it could do double duty. The Porter cable router based machine is built in the same way, but scaled down. The raise- lower is really more robust than any router lift that I have seen, the base all welded steel, with the built in dust collection, the top is flat plastic. Maybe 300 pounds. The big PC router will move a 1/4 spiral upcut through wood with some authority. I use mine for lots of things, basically you can reproduce shapes. For example, if you wanted to make cabinet cases, you could very accurately cut out one part, including the dados, and toe kick, then reproduce these, including the dados (it has three height stops) on the pin router from rough cut plywood parts. I use it also for making shaper jigs. You can also clamp a fence on for most typical router table stuff.