Aigner Contermax: Any users? Any thoughts?

[Peter Quinn]

I'm considering an Aigner contermax for coping door parts on my new to me Paoloni shaper. The shaper has no miter slot in the table (its built to take a bolt on accessory table for coping like SCMI sells, but thats not in the budget presently), so miter gauge/ or coping sled based on slot is out. I could make a sort of bed board with a slot in it to attach, build a coping sled to work with that, etc. But the Aigner contermax sure looks good in use in Aigner videos. Wondered if any creepers have used one, andy thoughts if so?

[joe milana]

I went & found this thread, only to find you had a post in it, but here it is anyway.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?122899-Aigner-solution-to-cope-and-stick-joints

It's actually affordable, for an Aigner product, which leaves me wondering. I wonder how easy it is to fit the backer piece?

I like this one from Wynmatic, it's as simple, or simpler to set up, but alot more money.

http://www.wynmatic.com/model70ca.html

[Stephen Cherry]

Here it is in a video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urmz_cpHsH0

[Charles Brown]

I'm considering an Aigner contermax for coping door parts on my new to me Paoloni shaper. The shaper has no miter slot in the table (its built to take a bolt on accessory table for coping like SCMI sells, but thats not in the budget presently), so miter gauge/ or coping sled based on slot is out. I could make a sort of bed board with a slot in it to attach, build a coping sled to work with that, etc. But the Aigner contermax sure looks good in use in Aigner videos. Wondered if any creepers have used one, andy thoughts if so?

I have the Contermax and love it. It's simple, effective, and easy to use. My only problem is remembering to mill enough additional stock to use as a backer. I just haven't been able to mentally include that step into my process. Attaching the backer piece is easy--just screw it on from the top with some flat head wood screws.

I use it on my Felder combo machine without any problems. It, too, doesn't have a mitre slot and references off of the shaper fence. What I like about it is that it allows me to use cutters that take a full profile--which is how I prefer to run door material.

If you're here in Atlanta for IWF this week I'd be happy to let you try it out.

[Peter Quinn]

I went & found this thread, only to find you had a post in it, but here it is anyway.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?122899-Aigner-solution-to-cope-and-stick-joints

It's actually affordable, for an Aigner product, which leaves me wondering. I wonder how easy it is to fit the backer piece?

I like this one from Wynmatic, it's as simple, or simpler to set up, but alot more money.

http://www.wynmatic.com/model70ca.html

Thanks Joe. I had e same experience late last night, looking for threads about the contermax, found that one I posted in, ! I honestly don't remember being part of that conversation. And the product sort of slipped my mind and fell off my radar until I had a need for it. That wynmatic looks great, but it's way over budget presently.

[Peter Quinn]

I have the Contermax and love it. It's simple, effective, and easy to use. My only problem is remembering to mill enough additional stock to use as a backer. I just haven't been able to mentally include that step into my process. Attaching the backer piece is easy--just screw it on from the top with some flat head wood screws.

I use it on my Felder combo machine without any problems. It, too, doesn't have a mitre slot and references off of the shaper fence. What I like about it is that it allows me to use cutters that take a full profile--which is how I prefer to run door material.

If you're here in Atlanta for IWF this week I'd be happy to let you try it out.

Thanks for the info and the offer Charles, sadly I will not be in Atlanta. Do you know if it's capable of handling parts for entry doors, say 1 3/4" thick.?

[Charles Brown]

I think it could handle the thickness but I don't think it was designed to handle material quite that thick. The pressure pad in the front is only ~1" thick so I would think that would be the max size it could optimally handle. Like any other tool, though, I'm sure it could be put into service for those tasks it wasn't specifically designed for.

Its a pretty simple idea and with the quality, fit, and finish being wonderful. That being said, the idea could be mimicked with a couple of De-Sta-Co clamps and plywood for those thicker doors. I think the beauty in it is the quickness you're able to change out the rail pieces and fly through a whole stack of parts.

[Jeff Duncan]

I make my own sleds for coping as it's quick, easy, and cheap to make and probably works as good if not better than any of the ones I've seen for sale. I have one setup for cabinet doors and one for passage doors. I also don;t have slots and don;t think I;d use them if I did. I set my fence and the sled rides against the fence. This allows me to dial in where I want to be in thousands of an inch very quickly;)

good luck,
JeffD

[J.R. Rutter]

You might want to keep an eye out for a used copemaster or even the bigger panelmaster. There is a weaver version on eBay right now, but it is $$$ still. These jigs use pneumatic clamps and run along the fence. They are very fast and let you do multiple copes at once, with cutters that profile the whole edge, as well as use a loose backer board that can move up incrementally to give a fresh backer to each cope.

[Peter Quinn]

You might want to keep an eye out for a used copemaster or even the bigger panelmaster. There is a weaver version on eBay right now, but it is $$$ still. These jigs use pneumatic clamps and run along the fence. They are very fast and let you do multiple copes at once, with cutters that profile the whole edge, as well as use a loose backer board that can move up incrementally to give a fresh backer to each cope.

JR, can you point me to a link for the copemaster? I'm seeing a machine by that name for coping crown and base molding but not much else, maybe I'm looking in the wrong place?

[J.R. Rutter]

Sorry, I got the name wrong, it is crafter not master:

http://www.relcuttools.com/copecrafter.shtml

There is an older version of this Weaver on eBay right now for 1/2 the cost of new:

http://www.weaver-sales.com/air-tenon-jig.htm

I added another cylinder for side pressure to my Ritter so that the rails are pushed tightly against the backer board. It looks simple to add this to the jigs above.

[Peter Quinn]

Tanks JR, those look sweet. I'll keep my eyes open for one.

Jeff, any chance for a pic of your sled that rides the fence? I'm thinking I need a shop made sled short term. The Minimax doesn't take a regular miter gauge either, the slot is an odd depth, and there is very little table beyond the slot to balance a sled. There is a slider on that one, but it's a bit large for coping door parts.

[Charles Brown]

I added another cylinder for side pressure to my Ritter so that the rails are pushed tightly against the backer board. It looks simple to add this to the jigs above.

Not to completely hijack this thread, but, JR--where do you find your air cylinders and what specs do you use for them? For some reason, I've had the hardest time sourcing this product as I can't really wrap my head around what actual specs are required for a woodworking clamp, etc. All of the air cylinders I've used as pressure pads on my jigs I have absolutely loved but they've all come from other items I've bought used that they happened to be a part of.

Thanks for any help.

[J.R. Rutter]

For pneumatics, I like automationdirect or grainger. For the side pressure on my sled, I just got a long stroke, small diameter cylinder with a threaded end and tapped a hole in the side of the sled to screw into. For the shop built or modified pneumatics that I have done, absolute clamping pressure was not as important as the stroke and size (to fit the machine), so that is how I've chosen mine. The cope sled got the smallest diameter, longest stroke cylinder that I could find in 15 minutes of searching online. I think it is a 3/4" bore x 6" stroke. I use a spacer block if I just need to clamp a single small part.

[Jeff Duncan]

Hi Peter, I got a couple shots this morning so you can see what I'm using. Again, it's as basic as can be and gets the job done accurately and safely!
http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx268/JDWoodworking/IMG_2685.jpg
Here's a shot of the cabinet door jig...a couple of toggles on the back stop, first one holding the backer stock, and the top one holding the workpiece. I used a little spray adhesive to glue the 240 grit sandpaper down, (looks like the humidity curled my paper....I'll have to swap that out soon!), as cheap insurance against unwanted movement;) The rail in the pic is a bit over 3" long....I've done as short as 2-1/4" with no problems!
I've seen other guys sleds with threaded rods through the back stop for adjustment. I just got lazy when building mine so use a little shim when needed...(little piece of sandpaper stick up from between the stop and backer:rolleyes:
Using a toggle on the backer stock allow you to quickly bump it up a bit when you need a fresh edge!
http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx268/JDWoodworking/IMG_2687.jpg
Same concept but for 1-3/4" passage doors!
http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx268/JDWoodworking/IMG_2686.jpg

On this shot you can just see the gap between the backer and the fence. I set this so that I cut the full profile +1/32" on each pass. This ensures I get a perfect cut without any worry of coming up shy of a full profile! With a micro adjust fence I can dial it in very quickly and easily;)

Anyway I hope this helps. I haven't ever used any of the aftermarket jigs, but it would have to offer something really special to get me to shell out over $1k for something I do pretty efficiently with shop scrap and a couple toggle clamps:D

good luck,
JeffD

[joe milana]

I'm with Jeff on this one. Two scraps of wood, some sandpaper, and you are good to go. I even did it without the toggles for a while, but my knuckles got tired. Keeping the backer square is critical, and I just don't see how that works on the aigner using just a couple wood screws.