First try at cutting dovetail

[Paul Sikorski]

My first try at cutting a dovetail by hand. While a lame attempt I learned a couple things. Cutting the tails first def seems the way to go, I def need to sharpen my chisels. I didn't mark both sides of the board that def hurt me. It seemed like I was crushing the wood more than cutting it when cutting across the grain. A symptom of a chisel not being as sharp as needs to be. Well if you need a laugh or wish to lend advice please do so. Oops I can't post the pic from my iPad. I'll try to get it on tomorrow.

[Michael Peet]

Hi Paul,

My first ones were terrible too. If you post this over in the neander cave you'll get more help than you can shake a club at.

Mike

[David Nelson1]

Hi Paul,My first ones were terrible too. If you post this over in the neander cave you'll get more help than you can shake a club at.MikeOh I sure did. Mine are still not worth posting , but are much better practice, pratice and more practice!

[Chris Atzinger]

Popular Woodwoodworking mag wrote about a "dovetail-a-day" challenge a while ago, which I tried. I obtained some S4S poplar, and cut at least 1 dovetail joint a day for a month. It was just a 20 minute exercise, and it really worked. Kept all the joints and numbered them so that I could track my progress. Are they great? no. Are they better? definitely.

Just like Dave said, practice, practice, practice!

-Chris

[Kenneth Speed]

Cutting dovetails is like practicing the scales for a musician. If you don't do it for a while you'll get rusty.

I'm always fiddling with different methods to see what works best and try to cut at least two sets of through dovetails a week. Kari Holtman has a video on youtube that shows her cutting through dovetails slick as goose grease.

Specifically make sure you mark your baseline on both sides of your tail board and all around your pin board. I like to use a marking knife to mark the tails and pins and then darken the lines with a sharp pencil, that way I can see the lines and feel them with my thumb nail.


Ken

[Mel Fulks]

Good advise from all above .Make sure your chisel is high quality and sharp.Remember hand cutting them was invented as a simple and quick alternative to electric routers and dovetail jigs...like snowflakes no two are alike.

[Kevin Bourque]

My first dovetails got filled in with putty and painted over. It was the only humane thing to do. :D

[Carl Beckett]

You will get it soon enough Paul, you have already learned a few key things.

My first dovetails were machine cut. Then I went out and got a Leigh fixture. Several years later I tried by hand, and have now decided that all the fixture setup is a complete waste of effort and a pain. If I ever sell anything, that dovetail fixture will be on the list.

Keep practicing! (and sharpening!)

[Andrew Pitonyak]

My first try at cutting a dovetail by hand. While a lame attempt I learned a couple things. Cutting the tails first def seems the way to go, I def need to sharpen my chisels. I didn't mark both sides of the board that def hurt me. It seemed like I was crushing the wood more than cutting it when cutting across the grain. A symptom of a chisel not being as sharp as needs to be. Well if you need a laugh or wish to lend advice please do so. Oops I can't post the pic from my iPad. I'll try to get it on tomorrow.

My biggest problem with dovetails is being able to saw exactly to the line and square on both sides. It will probably be highly useful for a start to take a board and mount it so that it is as close to horizontal as possible. Next, make about 100 careful test cuts. There are a few things to watch for when you do this.



Cuts must be straight and follow a perfect horizontal line. If you scribe both sides, this may give you some useful information. It might actually be better to saw right next to the line rather than on the line because if the saw cuts the line, it will remove the line. I mean, this is not a real problem, but then you can wander the thickness of the saw blade and not know it.
Cuts must be perpendicular to the board. I seem to have this natural ability to place the saw exactly on the line (which I presume is perpendicular to the board), make a cut that totally obscures the line, and yet be just a smidge out of perpendicular.


Off hand, these two things seem to be one of the most difficult to accomplish. For part 2, I was even running the saw blade next to a square to see how close I was. It looked square to me until the engineering square was set next to the blade.

When I cut tails first, I set the board at an angle so that I am still cutting horizontally rather than at a skewed angle. To be honest, as long as you cut a straight line that is perpendicular to the board, it won't really matter.

After you transfer your tail markings to the pin board (assuming you can do that accurately), you are suddenly cutting at an angle that is not perpendicular to the board. Ouch! So take care while cutting these.

[Paul Sikorski]

Thanks for all the advice I will post my next atempt on the neander cave. I was out at my folks fixing somethings yesterday and as luck would have it they live close to a rockler store. I picked up a Japanese saw the guy recommended and a marking gauge with the wheel. I didnt get home till late but am going to try again today. I am going to def mark the scribe line with a pencil Ken that's such a great and simple idea. Andrew that sounds like great idea making a bunch of cuts first. to get that part down. Sort of like walking before you run. I promised a pic so here it is.239728

[Craig Behnke]

whoa! that's a rough dovetail. that thing is put together like a ransom note...and it's still 10 times better than my first stab at a dovetail...which looked all disheveled and unkempt like it had been kidnapped and held in a car trunk for 5 days.

good stuff.

[Paul Sikorski]

whoa! that's a rough dovetail. that thing is put together like a ransom note...and it's still 10 times better than my first stab at a dovetail...which looked all disheveled and unkempt like it had been kidnapped and held in a car trunk for 5 days.

good stuff.
Thanks Craig, Got to tell you I laughed my butt off that was funny.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I will not critique your first dovetail there.....

The first thing that I noticed was how horrible your bottom cut line when you pared out the tails. Let me comment, however, that if I post mine you won't be saying "oooo, look how nice he trimmed to that line". Sadly, I have no particularly good advice on this other than to be sure that your chisels are very sharp. I have a nice coping saw and I try to cut out the wast with that and then trim it down for a perfect match.

The second thing that I noticed is that it looks like you have a pretty nice tight fit. In other words, I am not seeing gaps. This is significant to me because that strikes me as one of the most difficult things to master, and would lead me to believe that you are probably doing an OK job of cutting to the marked lines (or your wood is very very soft so you are able to simply pound it in and close the gaps).

Did it take a bunch of paring to fit? If you can:



Cut exactly where you want both perpendicular and straight.
Mark correctly for the pins (since I think you said that you cut tails first).
Figure out exactly where to cut relative to your marks in the second step.
Mark your bottom reference line accurately
Remove the waste well


Then you will probably have perfect dovetails.

I try to cut exactly to the line so that no paring is required.One trick that I obtained from Christopher Swartz, is that he is more likely to trim an inside face than at the edges. If you trim too much from the edge, then you have a gap. If the inside face portion is removed only, then you may not have a tight fit of the pin to the tail inside, but a little bit extra on the exactly border may crush a bit for a nice looking fit. Clearly, you want to find a happy in between. If that is hard to understand, think about taking a board and you cup out a bowl without touching the edges. Now imagine that that board is the inside face of a tail or a pin. Clearly you don't want a bowl, or you won't have a glue surface, but if you take too much off along any point that is edge visible then you have a gap.

I found that a western hand saw is easier for me to hold and cut a straight line. I also find the teeth to be much more durable. I expect that the Japanese saw is easier to start. Many people seem to love the Japanese pull saw, but I found it more difficult to register my hand repeatedly with that type of handle. I almost did not mention that because you should not decide in your head that because "andrew" had a problem, you will as well (which might make you fail where you would otherwise succeed). Instead, think "if I have no luck, I should at least try a standard western handle that may be more difficult to start the cut". Met many people that live and breath these saws and do great joinery and I have other physical issues that may make that more difficult for me.

Also, a knife cut is much finer than a pencil or pen cut. I have used both to mark. lately I have been using a knife to mark my cuts for dovetails. Can't say it is better, but I can say that for smaller dovetails I had trouble getting a pen or pencil into the tail to mark the pins.

You should be proud of your first dovetails.

[Carl Beckett]

Thanks for all the advice I will post my next atempt on the neander cave. I was out at my folks fixing somethings yesterday and as luck would have it they live close to a rockler store. I picked up a Japanese saw the guy recommended and a marking gauge with the wheel. I didnt get home till late but am going to try again today. I am going to def mark the scribe line with a pencil Ken that's such a great and simple idea. Andrew that sounds like great idea making a bunch of cuts first. to get that part down. Sort of like walking before you run. I promised a pic so here it is.239728


To me, there isnt a bad first try at all! In fact I bet if you slathered glue all over it (meaning put a little glue on the mating surfaces), and let it all swell up as it dries. then took a pass or three over it with a plane to bring everything flush - that it would be a pretty darn good looking dovetail!!!

Sawing to the line is worthwhile practice (sawing to one side of a line, then the other side, then split the line... if you can master this it will be great)

Coping out the main waste before chiseling is my preferred way as well. Then when chiseling, I sometimes use a guide block - just a relatively thick piece of hardwood (like a cherry or maple) that is nice and square to lay on top of the workpiece, and you can hold the chisel up against this to keep it square. If the chisel is sharp, you wont need a lot of force hammering and it will leave a nice smooth (not smashed) surface

I use a pencil to mark. I happen to have an old drafting type that takes long lead that can be sanded to a point and then extended as far as you want to get in between the mating pieces for marking. The knife works for this as well.

Thats about it really. Once you do another.... say 30 dovetails, you are going to have it!!

[Jim Neeley]

Paul,

Compared to some here, like Gary Zimmel, I'm a rank beginner but have been working to teach myself to hand-cut dovetails. My first attempt wasn't pretty either.

I picked up Rob Cosman's Hand Cut Dovetails and Advanced Hand Cut Dovetails DVDs and, while watching them in my shop, followed his instructions step-by-step.

They are not technically difficult, they "just" require accurate sawing and layout. Here's my $0.02...

* First, get yourself a good quality narrow-kerf dovetail saw or spend the time tuning yours to make it so. A narrow-kerf saw is nearly impossible to "steer" once the kerf is started. Thus, when you start the saw at the correct angle, it will follow the line without wandering.

* Second, practice sawing. A lot. Get an exacto or other fine blade knife and (ideally) a dovetail angle marking gauge and make a series of vertical lines about 1/8" apart, marked as if they were one side of the dovetail.

* Practice cutting "to the line", over and over. This means cutting so as to have the edge of the saw kerf fall precisely at the center of the exacto knife cut, leaving the other half of the mark. Ensure all perpendicular cuts are perpendicular and angled cuts precisely match the marked angle. Practice leaving the left and right sides of the mark until you have mastery of this skill. Maybe I'm slow but I spent several evenings in the shop simply ripping straight lines, until my cuts reached a fair level of consistancy..

* Third, learn to accurately transfer the marks from the tails (or pins, if you cut them first) to the mating component.

* The rest is just practice.

I've attached one of my practices samples, warts and all. I still need a great deal of practice. FWIW, I've found Rob's DVD's very helpful.

Again, just my $0.02...

Jim

[Paul Sikorski]

Paul,

Compared to some here, like Gary Zimmel, I'm a rank beginner but have been working to teach myself to hand-cut dovetails. My first attempt wasn't pretty either.

I picked up Rob Cosman's Hand Cut Dovetails and Advanced Hand Cut Dovetails DVDs and, while watching them in my shop, followed his instructions step-by-step.

They are not technically difficult, they "just" require accurate sawing and layout. Here's my $0.02...

* First, get yourself a good quality narrow-kerf dovetail saw or spend the time tuning yours to make it so. A narrow-kerf saw is nearly impossible to "steer" once the kerf is started. Thus, when you start the saw at the correct angle, it will follow the line without wandering.

* Second, practice sawing. A lot. Get an exacto or other fine blade knife and (ideally) a dovetail angle marking gauge and make a series of vertical lines about 1/8" apart, marked as if they were one side of the dovetail.

* Practice cutting "to the line", over and over. This means cutting so as to have the edge of the saw kerf fall precisely at the center of the exacto knife cut, leaving the other half of the mark. Ensure all perpendicular cuts are perpendicular and angled cuts precisely match the marked angle. Practice leaving the left and right sides of the mark until you have mastery of this skill. Maybe I'm slow but I spent several evenings in the shop simply ripping straight lines, until my cuts reached a fair level of consistancy..

* Third, learn to accurately transfer the marks from the tails (or pins, if you cut them first) to the mating component.

* The rest is just practice.

I've attached one of my practices samples, warts and all. I still need a great deal of practice. FWIW, I've found Rob's DVD's very helpful.

Again, just my $0.02...

Jim

Jim I youtubed Jim Cosman watched him make a 3:40 minute dovetail.. WOW!! I was amazed how quick he was.