Installing the Veritas Twin-Screw Vise

[Joe Cowan]

I am getting ready to install this on my workbench that I completed last winter. I have a pattern makers vise on the end of the bench and this twin screw vise will be installed on the side. I will have to use the bench as the rear jaw, but I will have to add blocks to the bottom of the bench, on both sides of the leg, to make the rear jaw. I am planning of putting the screws 2' apart. After that, I am still scratching my head on how to proceed. Anybody with experience in this area, please chime in and give me your tips.

[Brian Tymchak]

Hi Joe,

I put that vise on my bench a couple years ago. There were good instructions in the kit I bought from Lee Valley. I read through those and then followed the instructions, taking my time to double/triple check everything. If you don't have those instructions, Lee Valley has them on their website: http://www.leevalley.com/EN/shopping/Instructions.aspx?p=45040

It took me a while to get the tension on the chain right. I had to add a link, or a half link. Also, the instructions mention using a wear block for each screw to help minimize sagging when the vise is extended. I put those in but having already drilled dog holes in the bench, I covered 1 hole from below with 1 of the wear blocks. So, if you haven't drilled dog holes yet, you may want to plan for staying clear of the screws with the hole pattern.

Brian

[Greg Portland]

I installed mine into a 2x6 + ply torsion box design with 2" thick maple ends for the vise jaws. Lee Valley is NOT kidding... READ THE INSTRUCTIONS. I would even go so far as recommending that you build a mock up of the end of your bench in pine/cheap wood and do a test installation. The main issues folks seem to encounter are screw interference (with either the dog holes or other parts on your bench), the installation/size/placement of the wear blocks (too thick = binding, too thin = not effective), and installing the flange screws (may be hard to get into a tightly chopped hole).

A picture of your bench (including the underside) would help us with specific recommendations. Good luck on the install, the vise is great once it's installed and working.

[ian maybury]

Just starting a Roubo style bench Joe, and have spent a fair amount of time looking at the installation of the Veritas Twin Screw i bought a couple of years ago. There's a DIY wagon vise going on the other end.

The potential issues i seemed to see with a conventional (horizontal) install when i drew it up were:

1. It's probably best to get the screw spacing spot on so that with a bit of luck no tensioning screws are needed. A mock up is as above probably a good idea for this, as very small variations in vise screw positioning will make a big difference to chain slack. Chains tend to pick up some slack pretty quickly from new before settling down, so best not to start with any more than the minimum needed for free operation.

2. As above watch out for interference with dog holes, leg/stretcher/top joinery etc.

3. If the bench top is very thick it will force a low positioning of the screws - meaning that the outer jaw becomes subject to a lot of leverage and an increased possibility of tilting under clamping forces.

4. As you've mentioned the options are to either cut a large chunk out of the top to allow a one piece fixed jaw, or joint a lower half to the underside of the top - taking care to sort out grain direction so that it's not going to move differently to the top.

5. There's a risk of sagging of the moving jaw when it's fully screwed out - there's a fair amount of slop in the screw threads. (which allows some skewing of the jaw) It seems like it might be advisable to go the Veritas route of placing support blocks above screws/attached to the lower surface of the top to minimise this.

6. The moving jaw occupies a lot of real estate to the front edge of the bench, especially with a wide 24 in screw spacing. It's probably worth thinking about this before proceeding - especially since a Moxon vise seem to eliminate a lot of the need for a wide screw spacing. (???)

Having run into especially 3,4 and 6 (my top is thick) and not found any very elegant solution I decided to mount my Veritas vertically in the form of a leg vise, and have drawn the bench up accordingly.

A leg vise gives lots of jaw depth, and takes up far less horizontal space. Adding a Moxon should cover the bases - but I'd appreciate hearing from anybody that sees any holes/downsides in this line of thinking. One possible option that gets lost is that of placing a row of say 3 dog holes in the top of a horizontal moving jaw - for clamping frames, chair seats and the like?

Mounted as a leg vise it fits in nicely on the stock 16 7/8in spacing (between the bottom and top stretchers), and using a UHMW or Tufnol bearing block mounted in the back of the leg to the rear of the top screw and shimming the bearings/inside of the jaw nut at the top screw should prevent any tilting or sagging. It's probably best to leave some slop in the lower screw to accommodate some jaw tilting and/or misalignment.

I'm not 100% decided on the choice of handles. The stock one at the top, and a shortened version of it at the lower screw should work pretty well. It's possible with a bit of ingenuity to use cast iron hand wheels from a tooling supplies place if preferred - although incorporating the the skew release pin and spring would require a little machining of one wheel hub.

Just be aware that while it seems to fit very nicely that this isn't a proven arrangement. That said it was encouraging to see Lie Nielsen pop up with the offering of their twin screw vise set up as a leg vise in one of Chris Schwarz's Popular Woodworking blogs a few weeks ago....

ian

[Steve Bishop]

Hello Joe,

Here are some pictures of how I did it.
With planning I was able to make it all fit without anything getting in the way.
The vise screws are 22" center to center.
The first row of dog holes continue all the way to a wagon vise on the right side.

Top view. See the six 1/2 in bolts counter sunk into the top I'm using hold the lower blocks in place.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg57/techie470/Top.jpg


Rear view. The lower blocks are not attached to the leg and are not glued in place. So far the bolts are holding it from moving.
You can see a row of dog holes runing along side the top support.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg57/techie470/Rear.jpg


Side view, note the lower block is two pieces of maple glued together and totals 3.5 in thick by 4.5 in high.
From this view you can see I used maple for the first three boards then SYP for the rest.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg57/techie470/Side.jpg


Bottom view. Note the support for the screws to keep it from sagging.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg57/techie470/Bottom.jpg

The bench top is about 4 in thick the lower block is 4.5 in thick, so the vise chop is 8.5 in tall, 32 in long and 2.5 in thick.
This was completed about 6 months ago and havent had any problems with movement.

Steve

[Alan Schaffter]

For some of the reasons already noted and for aesthetics, I made my bench aprons and moving vise jaws all the same width. My bench top is about 2 3/4 but aprons are 6". The side aprons were dovetailed into the end aprons but not glued. The end aprons are attached to the end of the bench top via three (4?) sets of barrel nuts inserted into holes drilled up from the bottom of the apron, threaded rod, and hex nuts. This allows the end aprons which are mounted cross-grained to the bench to float with seasonal movement. The hex nuts are in pockets cut into the underside of the bench top and can be tightened with a wrench if necessary.

I didn't like the supplied metal chain/sprocket cover because my leadscrew spacing required a two piece unit and I thought it stuck out too far, so I recessed the chain and sprocket into the movable jaw which was plenty thick. I made the cover from thin ply that just snaps in and Rob Lee sent me a new LV label for it. Below are pics; a video tour is at this link (http://videos.americanwoodworker.com/video/Adjustable-Height-Woodworking-B).

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/1463/medium/IMG_2932.jpg

View of underside of bench. Threaded rod and hex nut in pocket at right. The hole in end apron at left holds a barrel nut (also called threaded cross dowel)

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/1463/medium/IMG_2952.jpg

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/1463/medium/IMG_28652.jpg

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/1463/medium/IMG_28641.jpg

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/1463/medium/IMG_2874.jpg

[Joe Cowan]

Great reply Steve. One question, how did you line up the drilled holes for the twin screws, as the bottom jaw is two pieces with the leg in the middle? The instructions are very direct about making sure these are drilled exactly in line with one another.

[Bob Lang]

On my bench, the back jaw is two pieces, one on each side of the leg. I ended up simply gluing them to the bottom edge of the top, but before I did I clamped them in place, then clamped the front jaw to them. That made sure that all the pieces were aligned for putting in the holes. That is probably the most critical part of the installation.

Bob Lang

[Brian Tymchak]

Bottom view. Note the support for the screws to keep it from sagging.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg57/techie470/Bottom.jpg



Nice pic Steve! I really like the idea of using UMHW for the screw support.

[Steve Bishop]

In setting up for drilling the vise screws, I registered the bottom of the outer jaw against a drill press fence to set the distance from the bottom and used a stop to set the hole distance from the jaw end. When drilling the outer jaw was inside up against the fence and the jaw block was inside down. Then without moving the drill press fence I reset the stop block to drill the holes for the other side. Once the holes where drilled and counter sunk, I then attached the screw nuts to the back of the jaw block. Assemble the vise on the front jaw, screw the back jaws all the way on then clamp the assembly to the bench then transfered the mounting bole holes from the bench top to the lower inside jaws. Disassemble everything to drill the inside lower jaw mounting holes and countersink. Then reassembled, clamped it all back in place, installed then tightened the bolts holding the inside lower jaws in place. Kind of like Bob Lang did, but I used bolts. Glue is my plan B, but so far it hasn't been needed.

I made the outer jaw just a little bit taller than needed so it would protrude above the bench top. This way I could trim (hand plane) it level with the top.

I must of assembled and disassembled the vise and jaws 30 times before I was happy with the set up.

Steve

[Steve Bishop]

Alan,

That's a nice and clean installation.

Steve

[Alan Schaffter]

Alan,

That's a nice and clean installation.

Steve

Thanks.

If you wait to attach the end apron (rear jaw face) to the table you can stack both the apron and moving jaw face and drill the holes for both leadscrews in both pieces at the same time at the drill press. If you make the faces a little oversize to begin with then you can trim and mount (dovetail, etc.) the apron (rear jaw face) to the table, assemble the vise and front jaw face and trim it to the same size or at least so the top is flush with the table top.

[ian maybury]

+1 on the neat chain arrangement Alan - i still have the option to bury my chain. Will take a look....

Not to divert the thread, but to ask a related question that's central to using a Twin Screw as a leg vise. Does it clamp well in the area outboard of the main screws, and is the ability to rack the jaw using the LV drive pin arrangement important to getting a good grip?

ian

[Greg Portland]

I get plenty of outboard grip for hand planing and I have not had to rack the jaws.

[david blakelock]

Not to divert this thread, but I just installed this vise as well. As has been pointed out, it is critical to follow the instructions. It is not that difficult if you take the time and make sure everything lines up. I do have one question for Alan. How did you round over the edge of the vise? Did you use a bandsaw? That is the last step I have to do and just wanted to see what the best way to do that. Your installation looks great.

Thanks,

David

[Joe Cowan]

Thanks.

If you wait to attach the end apron (rear jaw face) to the table you can stack both the apron and moving jaw face and drill the holes for both leadscrews in both pieces at the same time at the drill press. If you make the faces a little oversize to begin with then you can trim and mount (dovetail, etc.) the apron (rear jaw face) to the table, assemble the vise and front jaw face and trim it to the same size or at least so the top is flush with the table top.


I thought of this, but I am going to have to cut the rear jaw into two pieces as one piece will be attached to the left of the bench leg and the other piece to the right side of the bench leg. It seems like a small chance of error, but the instructions were clear to make sure they were exactly lined up. I guess I would drill the two rear jaw pieces, install them on either side of the leg, then place the full front jaw over it, mark the exact center point and take that to the drill press to drill.

[Alan Schaffter]

Not to divert this thread, but I just installed this vise as well. As has been pointed out, it is critical to follow the instructions. It is not that difficult if you take the time and make sure everything lines up. I do have one question for Alan. How did you round over the edge of the vise? Did you use a bandsaw? That is the last step I have to do and just wanted to see what the best way to do that. Your installation looks great.

Thanks,

David

I really liked the "thumbnail" profile on the trestle base feet so thought it would look good on the vise, too- I think it adds a bit of class to the vise jaw. I designed, drew, and cut it carefully with a bandsaw. I cleaned it up with files and sandpaper.

[Alan Schaffter]

I thought of this, but I am going to have to cut the rear jaw into two pieces as one piece will be attached to the left of the bench leg and the other piece to the right side of the bench leg. It seems like a small chance of error, but the instructions were clear to make sure they were exactly lined up. I guess I would drill the two rear jaw pieces, install them on either side of the leg, then place the full front jaw over it, mark the exact center point and take that to the drill press to drill.

Since they seem to be causing the most problems, I would go ahead and permanently mount the L & R rear faces. Carefully locate where you want the holes in the front face and drill it at the drill press. DO NOT attempt to rely on marking the rear faces- it will be tough to find and mark the center of a 1-1/2" or so deep hole even using the tip of a spur bit. Just clamp the front jaw firmly in position so you can drill the L & R rear faces with an electric hand drill. The thicker the front face the better alignment support the drill bit will have. You can always make it thinner later.

[Joe Cowan]

Since they seem to be causing the most problems, I would go ahead and permanently mount the L & R rear faces. Carefully locate where you want the holes in the front face and drill it at the drill press. DO NOT attempt to rely on marking the rear faces- it will be tough to find and mark the center of a 1-1/2" or so deep hole even using the tip of a spur bit. Just clamp the front jaw firmly in position so you can drill the L & R rear faces with an electric hand drill. The thicker the front face the better alignment support the drill bit will have. You can always make it thinner later.

I guess I could install the two rear faces, drill the front jaw on the drill press, take the front jaw over to the bench and clamp the front jaw in position over the rear jaws and leg, and using the same forstner drill bit used at the drill press, just continue the drilling, letting the previous drilled holes be the guide for drilling the rear holes as deep as it would drill using a hand drill.

[Alan Schaffter]

I guess I could install the two rear faces, drill the front jaw on the drill press, take the front jaw over to the bench and clamp the front jaw in position over the rear jaws and leg, and using the same forstner drill bit used at the drill press, just continue the drilling, letting the previous drilled holes be the guide for drilling the rear holes as deep as it would drill using a hand drill.

I wouldn't use a Forstner to drill the rear holes- once the cutter head is fully past the front holes there is no support for the shank and nothing to to keep it drilling straight. I would use a brad point bit, it will be supported during the whole process.