Floor Sanders

[David Nelson1]

I'm getting pretty close to installing my flooring. I have taken pain staking measurements to ensure ever piece is exactly the same thickness and depending on the substrate everything should be on the same plane. For the occasional misalignment problem I'm planning on using a cabinet scraper to level that area.

I only have had experiance working with a drum sanders as a rental clerck years ago. We rented Clark Sanders that were pretty primitive. Having to use a tension bar to attach the paper instead of a flex type drum and no adjustment for depth these machines seemed like a lot of thing could go wrong. For me with a bad hip and walking with a cane I really think that a drum sander is out of the question unless there has been a large improvement in the last 30 years.

I researched the Clark line and found they have a few improvements to help reduce some of the risk. I would like ask for some first hand experience/advise using a drum sander. I have thought that a better option for me would be the pad type like the Clark OBS 18DC (http://www.americansanders.com/~/media/Products/Sanders/OrbitalSanders/OBS18/70288B.ashx). I'm open to suggestion on other machines and techniques.

dave

[Jason Roehl]

First off, I think you'll be surprised how uneven your floor will be when installed. Plank thickness is one thing, but the subfloor will affect it, as will the consistency of the tongue and groove joints. It doesn't take much of a difference between planks to feel it in bare feet, or to catch your socks and even your shoes. That's why pre-finished flooring almost always has some sort of bevel on the edges.

Sanding and finishing a floor has little in common with finishing a piece from a wood shop. It's also very physically demanding. I don't do it full time, but I do refinish probably 5-10,000 s.f. of wood floor per year. Maybe it would be easier if I did more of it, but I'm 38, in pretty good shape, and it kicks my butt. I use a 12", 7.5HP Super Hummel belt sander for the large areas. That's the easy part--as easy as finessing a 300 pound machine can be. The harder part is running the edger. Knees, legs, back, derriere--something's gonna hurt at the end of the day (and for a couple days after...)

But, chances are, you won't be able to rent those machines I use. I've not used the pad sanders, but I've heard from friends who have tried them--they don't do much. Probably the best rental machine to use, if you can find it, is one that has 3-4 random orbit heads on it. I've heard good things about those. An unfinished floor would probably not overtax it (I'd have my doubts that it could do much to remove finish). If there's enough of a difference between two adjacent planks to feel, it takes a fair amount of machine to remove it.

If you have physical limitations, I would strongly suggest hiring out the finishing part. If nothing else, do an online search for NOFMA standards.

[Peter Kelly]

I'd go with the U-Sand orbital. Most rental yards have them now, superior in every way to the belt type as you mostly don't need an edger.

http://www.u-sand.com/u-sand/orbital-sander.aspx

[Rich Engelhardt]

The U-Sand used to be the best thing since sliced bread.
Then some idiot ruined it for the rest of us by leaving the dust bag on the machine overnight without emptying it and it caught fire from spontaneous combustion.
Now, you have to connect a shop vac to the output.
The machine was designed from the ground up to use the dust bag.
The shop vac just doesn't cut it.
Collection with the bag used to be near 100%. With the shop vac, dust collection is - maybe - 70% at best. Maybe...

Proper and complete dust pickup is critical for the U-Sand to operate. When the dust builds up underneath, it inhibits the ability of the ROS pads to work on the wood. You're "sanding" a layer of dust, not wood.

HOWEVER....despite being only about half as effective as they used to be, the U-Sand beats a pad sander hands down for doing the newly installed flooring.
Pad sanders are best used to screen floors between coats. They have even less provision for dust pickup and they are less agressive and they don't offer any protection against "swirl rings" , like the action of the ROS of the U-Sand.

I just used a U-Sand a couple of months ago to redo about 800 sq ft of white oak flooring. About 100 sq ft of that was new flooring I had to installed to replace damaged old flooring.
Prior to that. the last time I used a U-Sand was two years ago (when they still had the DC bags on them).

Another good feature of the U-Sand is that it gets much closer to the edge than other sanders. On new floors where there's no baseboards installed yet, there's no need to use a seperate machine for the edges.

FWIW - I've heard that the Varathane machine that Lowes rents works better than the U-Sand. It has three ROS pads underneath vs the four that the U-Sand has.
I can't comment on that machine since I haven't used it - yet.

Without a doubt, the best feature of the ROS types is how safe and easy they are for a novice to use.
You really have to work hard at messing up the flooring while you're sanding it.

[David Nelson1]

I had considered the U-Sander untill I heard from a freind that he didn't like them, but in retrospect he never actually used one. His info came from fellows that finished floors and used drum types. So the U-Sander is back on my list. Its gotta be a lot easier to use and a bit lighter to lug around that any Clarke type machine. Quiker than scraping as well!

[Peter Kelly]

The U-Sand used to be the best thing since sliced bread.
Then some idiot ruined it for the rest of us by leaving the dust bag on the machine overnight without emptying it and it caught fire from spontaneous combustion.
Now, you have to connect a shop vac to the output.
The machine was designed from the ground up to use the dust bag.
The shop vac just doesn't cut it.
That's really unfortunate as the U-Sand was a great tool with the dust bag. I'd be tempted to buy my own one for the next time I need to re-finish a floor. Perhaps American Filter Fabric can make one..

[ian maybury]

Probably out of date info, but my one experience with hiring a belt sander (one of the type that is very standard here http://www.hiretech.biz/products/ht8_features.html) was a waste of time. The machine (regardless of grit choice) just wasn't powerful enough/didn't shift enough wood) to get the job done in any reasonable period of time.

My impression is that machines like this are designed for the hire market, meaning cheap/reliable/non aggressive/can be run on a 230V/13A socket that is standard domestic usage over here. With the latter probably being the core issue.

I've seen a professional quality machine in action - a very different ball game....

ian

I've seen a

[Rich Engelhardt]

I had considered the U-Sander untill I heard from a freind that he didn't like them, but in retrospect he never actually used one. His info came from fellows that finished floors and used drum types.
Floor re-finishers don't like the U-Sand because it's slower and far less aggressive than a drum sander.
Time is money to a pro and they don't like wasting time on sanding.
Drum sanders can do a lot of damage to a floor in a split second if you aren't familiar with them.
I'm not a pro floor finisher by any stretch. I've done quite a few floors though.
The U-Sand is very user freindly for the casual or new user.
You have to work pretty hard to damage the flooring with one.

The U-Sand standard weighs in @ 125 pounds, which appaers to be about half of what the Clark weighs IIRC.

[David Nelson1]

I'm hoping the HD near me hasn't taken the bags off the machine yet. They had them on as of last Dec when I went to look @ them.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I sort of doubt they will have the bags.
That came down right from U-Sand. It's not a Home Depot thing.
U-Sand eve says on their website the bags are discontinued.

It's still a good machine though. Just not as good as it was.

You might want to check out Lowes and see if they have the Varathane brand sander. It's similar to the U-Sand. It has three ROS pads instead of the four that a U-Sand has.
I heard a lot of good comments about that machine.
I would have probably gone with one had I known about the U-Sand not having a bag on it any more, but, I didn't find that out until I asked the rental guy @ HD where the bag was - as we were loading the sander in the back of my van..
That's when he dropped it on me that the bags were discontinued & I had to hook a shop vac up to it now.

It was a good thing I already had the shop vac and an extra length of hose already onsite. I would have been pretty miffed if I hadn't and just found that out...

[David Nelson1]

Does Lowes actual rent tools? I looked @ the site and saw nothing that mentioned it. I don't normally hang out @ the big box places.

[Rich Engelhardt]

The Lowes by me rents carpet cleaners and over in the paint department, by the stains and varnishes, they have a floor sander for rent. Other than that, no, they don't have a rental department like Home Depot does.

[Steve Meliza]

I suggest installing the wood then deciding on your sanding options, though you could bring a pro by to give you a quote.

I got a quote from a pro for $3 a square foot for installation (labor and all materials except the wood) and another $3.60 a square foot for sanding and applying a Swedish finish (Glitsa Gold). In my infinite wisdom I decided to do the installation myself, figuring that even after I purchased the needed tools and supplies for installation I'd be $1000 ahead. Now that I am nearly two weeks into the process and about 2/3 done I can say that those guys really earn their pay. I'm taking my time to get everything to fit as nicely as I can and am having some fun, so I don't regret it, but I wouldn't hesitate to pay someone $3 a square foot to do the installation if I didn't have the time or physical ability.

The other reason to wait till you install is to get an idea how much sanding will need to be done. My red oak flooring is milled by Aacer and most pieces are milled very well. From time to time I cull a board that is to fat/thin/wide/skinny/etc, but the vast bulk of it goes down with almost no overwood. Based on this I would feel very comfortable trying to sand my floor with a U-Sand or similar device. If after installation I was snagging my socks on overwood I'd be sure to hire a pro to do the sanding. In my case I can't even buy the finish that I want to use so I may as well hire a pro to do the whole sand and finish job.