Car repair question....

[Brian Kerley]

Ok, long story, hopefully it's not too bad.


01 Saturn has been throwing a code for the last two years about something in the air/evap system (can't remember which, but is related to this air pump, even though the pump itself blows air, so i think it's this little valve busted (not pcv)). Reset the codes, but didn't repair the car, and took it in to get emissions tested. Failed emissions due to not being ready. Continued to drive and check engine light got set around 15 miles or so. Reset codes again, performed drive cycle, and took it back in to emissions. Passed emissions. Continued to drive it for the rest of the day, total of about 18 miles from the reset to when I get home. No "check engine light" yet (which was unexpected).


Next day, go to leave for work and car dies for no reason about a block from the house while in motion. Go to restart the car and it cranks, but won't turn over. Look at fuel gauge and it shows empty. Tank had been filled two days prior and was full. Tried adding gas anyways only to overflow the filler. So fuel level wasn't the issue. Gas needle still moved slightly when the key was turned but still indicated empty and car wouldn't start.


Disconnect battery and re-connect. Go to start car and it starts up just fine. The gas gauge sweeps and shows full tank.


Any ideas why the car died and the gas gauge pegged at empty despite having a full tank? Are these just coincidences? Did the computer maybe shut the car off due to the emissions equipment?

Thanks guys

[Biff Johnson]

I think you are probably dealing with two separate issues as far as the no start and the emissions light.

First thing, can you hear the fuel pump running when you turn the key to the on position (without cranking). If not, go tap on the bottom of the tank and see if it starts then. If you can't hear it, maybe the fuel pump and sending unit combo has gone out. I would start by checking the fuse, if fuse is good, swap fuel pump relay with another like relay and see if it works then.

I know plugged catalytic converters is a problem with high mileage Saturn motors. Oil gets past the rings and collects in the cat, plugging it. At that point the engine wont start because the exhaust is plugged. However in my experience the motor usually turns over pretty slowly, almost like a dead battery. Anyway, the beginning of the oil burning is usually prefaced by a service engine light because the oxygen sensors are picking up the unburned oil in the exhaust.

[Brian Kerley]

The emissions part I don't care about and I'm pretty sure I'm getting blowby. But the cranking is nice and solid. The emissions equipment is in the "air" system I think. I remember removing a tube and it was full of gunk. Cleaned it but I think it plugged the valve too (not pcv valve). The car now starts but it was strange that I had to disconnect the battery to do it...

[ray hampton]

The emissions part I don't care about and I'm pretty sure I'm getting blowby. But the cranking is nice and solid. The emissions equipment is in the "air" system I think. I remember removing a tube and it was full of gunk. Cleaned it but I think it plugged the valve too (not pcv valve). The car now starts but it was strange that I had to disconnect the battery to do it...

was the tube that you remove a metal tube or something else ?

[Jason Roehl]

It does sound like two different issues to me. The no-start just sounds like a computer brain fart based on the other symptoms. Disconnecting and reconnecting the battery reset the computer. A vehicle should never purposely shut down while in motion--that's a major safety hazard with loss of power steering and power brakes.

Your other issue sounds like an EGR valve issue (Exhaust Gas Recirculation). I don't know if your car has one or not (it might), but we wouldn't know for sure without the specific trouble code. The EGR valve opens during normal driving to increase efficiency and lower emissions. When you go full throttle (or perhaps hard acceleration), the valve closes, cutting off EGR and allowing for more power. I've had that valve go bad on a couple vehicles, and when it did, the vehicle ran very poorly. Very. Replacing the EGR was easy (they were both Mopar minivans), then the vehicles drove like new again.

A Haynes or Chilton repair manual could get you pointed to the right part--it may even be something as simple as a bad electrical connection or a broken vacuum line, which are sometimes used to control emissions equipment.

[Brian Kerley]

Metal tube, pre-bent into shape. Went right into the block.

And the valve isn't EGR. I really don't care about the emissions fix though. It passed, and the car runs quite well (like 30mpg). The car is a beater anyways. Googling around, the part is the air pump check valve (or it could be that switching solenoid). Air pump definitely works, as I remember checking that last year. The block passageway could be blocked too. This was the video I followed a few years back:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIrmkxj6wJE

I figured driving for the past two years with that error code and no shutdowns like the other day, it can't be that big of a deal. The whole complete shut down thing is what was freaky. All the lights were still on, etc. It's like the computer shut down the fuel pump or somethin. That's what I definitely don't want happening again.

[Rich Engelhardt]

A vehicle should never purposely shut down while in motion--that's a major safety hazard with loss of power steering and power brakes.

I agree - and that's one reason why I'm glad I went with an Accord instead of a Saturn at one time.

My wife's Saturn shut down like that on her about a year after she bought it.
The dealer had it for about three days & replaced all kinds of stuff.

My nephew's Satrun also shut down on him like that about 4 years after he bought it.
The same thing - dealer had it for a few days and replaced all kinds of stuff.

My wife's was convered under warranty and my nephew was lucky enough to have purchased an extended warranty.
The repairs for both were God-awful expensive - ~ $1500.

If you google Satrun shutting down while driving,,, you'll notice it's not that rare for them to do that.
Back when my wife's shut down, there were a lot more that showed up having that same problem.
I can only surmiase that now Saturn is out of business, a lot of them are just going away - as a lot of older cars do.

[ray hampton]

I wish that I never read this post because I can not recall the answer to your problem, maybe my mind will recall the information soon, the problem must had been fairly common

[Tom Stenzel]

I recommend going to the saturnfans site, there's lots of information available there.

If you asked this question there, the first response will be "Is your 01 a S series or a L series?". And, what engine?

In your case I would check the electrical connections to the fuel pump. I *think* the pump and the fuel gauge share some wiring, when your gauge went kaput the pump was out too.

I have a 1997 Saturn SL1. Three months after we had got it, it was one dealer tow trip away for being eligible for the Michigan Lemon law. It too would die unexpectedly. It irritated me that I had to find the problem (damaged electrical harness) and tell the dealer where it was.

Over the next 15 years it's had a remarkable run, stranding me once at a gas station. After driving it there, filling it with gas, it wouldn't start. Heck, the clock in the radio was out! For some reason the battery decided to fizzle out. I can't blame Saturn for that as I had bought the battery at Meijer's 7 years earlier.

-Tom Stenzel