Pst, Hey You, Looking for Some Rust?

[Jim Koepke]

My story is it whispered my name as I was walking by… a tiny little voice, "Jim, take me home please."

It was almost not to be. At the last minute my wife and I decided to stop at the Restore for a look.

Found this:

239225 239224


Amazing that with a lever cap that is chipped, a broken frog and handle it still looks like it can be made to work. Don't have time to work on it right now, but will try to remember to show the results.

Well at least my other #8 doesn't have a corrugated base.

jtk

[steven c newman]

And I thought I was bad about these things.... One COULD make some new handles, right?239228maybe a tune-up to make a few shavings??239229 and this one is also missing it's lateral adjuster lever. I do have a small hammer though.....

[Kenneth Speed]

I've got some other projects going but I've been thinking about finding aNo 7 or 8 in that kind of condition and then just6 pimping the Hell out of it and see what I can do!


I'm sure you know that the low knob shows that it's a fairly early plane.


Good luck on your restoration project,



Ken

[Jim Koepke]

I'm sure you know that the low knob shows that it's a fairly early plane.

Yes, it is has the B foundry mark on the lever cap and under the tote. That puts it into the type 8 time frame of 1899 - 1902. The frog has no mark. What is interesting is it almost looks like the bottom of the lateral adjuster lever is cut out like a type 5, but I haven't looked real close. That, of course, is where it is broken off. It does have a left hand thread on the adjuster.

My thought is it could be made with an old frog from stock on hand at Stanley. #8s likely didn't sell as fast as the other sizes.

jtk

[Mike Hutchison]

General Question: would the time frame of 1899-1902(Type 8) hold true
anytime I see a B foundry mark? Regardless of No. 5, 6, 7, or 8?

[Kevin Grady]

Hi Jim,

Where do you do your rust hunting? I'm just east of Lake Washington and other hunting estate sales, I don't come across much locally.

Thanks,
Kevin

[Jim Koepke]

General Question: would the time frame of 1899-1902(Type 8) hold true
anytime I see a B foundry mark? Regardless of No. 5, 6, 7, or 8?

Mike,
According to a study that has been done by a few others, yes. Here is text from the type study for the 7 & 8 with some of my own notes:


Type 7.*** Planes made by Stanley 1893-1899.

All of the features of the previous, except:

Bailey's name and patent dates eliminated from the brass adjustment nut and cap iron. The threading of the adjuster is changed from right hand thread to left hand thread.

The number designation, cast into the toe ("No 4", etc.), is now spaced farther apart; i.e. "No" is about 1" from "4", whereas the earlier models had the two right next to each other.

Most examples have the letter "S" cast into the frog, lever cap, and/or bed. This is likely the mark of the Sessions Foundry, who contracted with Stanley to produce their castings.

Type 8.*** Planes made by Stanley 1899-1902.

All of the features of the previous, except:

"S" casting marks eliminated, and replaced with "B", another foundry mark.

"7-24-88" is the only patent date found on the lateral adjustment lever. "STANLEY" is still there.

It looks like Johnny Kleso has been working on his site and has updated his type study at:

https://home.comcast.net/~rarebear/planes101/typing/typing.htm

Sometimes it is easier to use a chart:

http://primeshop.com/access/woodwork/stanleyplane/pftsynch.htm


Hi Jim,

Where do you do your rust hunting? I'm just east of Lake Washington and other hunting estate sales, I don't come across much locally.

Thanks,
Kevin

The north west hasn't been settled long enough to come up with the finds the folks in the east have the fortune to find. They are still around, just farther and fewer between.

There is a second hand tools store in Longview, WA that I stop buy occasionally. There are also a few other places I like to stop when out traveling. When in antique or junk stores, I always try to remember to ask about tools. Most of these folks all know each other and even though it seems they are in competition, they do work together. Many of the Antique mall stores will have at least one vendor that specializes in tools. I have seen some that are way over priced, but I have found have some with decent prices.

I look into the Restore (Habitat for Humanity's store), and any of the donation type thrift stores with sporadic results, but you never know. The Restore only occasionally has much of interest, but then someone comes along and cleans out the garage where grandpa's tools were collecting rust and voila! some great tools that won't stay there long. I have found things in pawn shops, but often they are too pricey for my taste. Sometimes though something has been on the shelf for years and they want it to move.

Antique stores often tools. Sometimes they are at a good price. I know one of the occasional posters here on SMC has placed ads in the local classified paper stating that he buys tools. He buys to collect, use or resell. I have bought a few tools from him and would be happy to buy from him again. I mentioned the tools wanted by me, but there aren't many of them around these parts.

I pretty much have most of the tools needed or desired for my work, but I like to look. There are one or two planes of which the one in my accumulation could be improved. The extra tools will likely end up being sold if I want to raise cash for a new tool. Some have been bought with the thought of selling at cost to others that may need them. This #8 kind of completes my "broken" set of a jointer, jack & smoother. These are three extra planes in my shop that all have problems. The smoother & jack work fine, but they have problems like cracks or threads that couldn't be repaired. If I do not come across a replacement frog for the #8, it will fit right in. These could be my traveling set for when I don't want to risk my good tools.

jtk

[Bill Houghton]

Well at least my other #8 doesn't have a corrugated base.

My No. 8 does have a corrugated base, and I wish it didn't. In fact, when I bought it, from a now-long-gone junk store, I stood there for ten minutes wavering between it and the smooth-sole No. 7 that they also had in stock, finally following the hand tools version of Tim Allen's "more power!" mantra from the old TV show. The corrugations can track on the sharp corner of an edge very easily, sometimes throwing off my stroke. Not a deal-breaker, and I like having low-knob tools; but, in an alternate universe where the junk shop had a smooth-soled No. 8, I'm probably happier.

[Jim Koepke]

Well Bill, if the prices were good, I would have bought both. Having both a #7 & #8 works well for me. Usually the #8 takes heavy cuttings and the #7 is my big smoother.

Funny thing is all of my planes have smooth soles except the 3 beaters.

jtk

[Bill Houghton]

Well Bill, if the prices were good, I would have bought both.

If I had then the money that I have now, I'd own both. But, alas, $50 was a lot of money then (though not as much as $300).

[Rodney Walker]

Kevin, I used to live on the east side. Pickings can be a bit slow. Mostly it's just persistence. True estate sales-not the ones that are put on by dealers bringing in their own overpriced junk-are a good bet, also the odds tend to be better at 55+ mobile home parks and older neighborhoods. The problem w/ the east side is it's a fairly newly developed area with high real estate prices and a fairly young and mobile population. Areas with older people and homes where they've had time to accumulate stuff are best. Sometimes Habitat for Humanity stores and thrift stores will have a couple hand saws or planes but many times the thrift stores will think they have something special when it's really not. Also I never find anything really old, stuff from around 1900 is about as old as it gets here. Frankly, I spend a lot of time looking at boxes of kid's toys and old shoes before I find anything decent.
I think it was already mentioned, but antique malls will usually have at least one vendor selling tools. Prices are higher, but then the leg work has been done for you and occasionally a decent deal can be found.
Rodney

[Ken Parris]

I am on the other side of the fence, I was raised using a Craftsman #5C and liked it. So now most of my planes are corrugated. I found a 608C in Murphy, NC with the top of the frog broken off. I tuned it up and the only thing is that side to side adjustment is by small hammer. Otherwise it works like a dream, it has a nice flat sole also. The broken frog and tote reduced the price greatly. I inherited the 5C, so I have it also.

Ken

[Mike Hutchison]

Jim
Thanks for the info
Maybe I will look through and see if I can find
more foundry marks on the Stanley/Baileys
I know there is a B mark on the No. 80 cabinet scraper
which prompted question
Mike H.

[Jim Koepke]

My recollection is of only 3 foundry marks on the bench planes. Oops, there may have been a U foundry mark after WW II. The first was a pimple. This was a transitional mark between types 6 & 7 for all I can tell. It is sometimes referred to as type 6a. There was more changes at that time than happened until type 9. The type 6a, 7 & 8 are basically the same except for the foundry marks and the patent dates on the lateral lever.

I think it was missed in the early type studies. Once things get in print it is hard to go back and change things. The type studies are really just a loose guide and there is a lot of overlap.

jtk