Anyone use Pratt and Lambert 38?

[Martin Shupe]

My current finishing schedule is 2 coats of original Tried and True Linseed Oil (not the varnish version, which gave me fits) followed by several coats of Waterlox Original Medium Sheen until it looks right. This works for me nicely on cherry.

I have accumulated a couple pieces, here and there, of curly maple and birdseye. I bought some beautiful curly maple from Donnie Raines here as well (Thanks Donnie!) I read somewhere that if I want the maple to stay light, I should use P&L 38. I read that it is very similar to Waterlox, but does not darken the wood as much. For cherry, I want the wood to darken, but I would like to make at least one light maple table, hence the question about P&L 38.

I have tried to find P&L 38 locally, and have not had any luck. Before I special order some, I wondered if anyone used it, and which one to get. There seem to be 3 flavors, dull, satin, and gloss. I would like a medium sheen....not too shiny, but not dull. I am thinking gloss, then rub it out with steel wool and a little wax.

I would appreciate any comments from anyone who is familiar with P&L 38 and can tell me their experiences.

Thank you, and thanks to Keith and Aaron for the new finishing forum and this great community of woodworkers.

[Steve Jenkins]

Martin, call Walnut Hill Paint in Dallas. 972 484-5800. They stock it in all three sheens. If you go there you better stop by here to say hi. Theyare on Royal Ln east of 35.

[Todd Burch]

If I use varnish, I use P&L 38. It is oil based. It is amber, and will amber more over time. If you REALLY want to hold natural color on a light colored wood, use something water based, not oil based.

[Chris Daigh]

Martin,

What was the problem with the Tried and True Varnish Oil. I ask because I was going to use it on a table top. Did you heat the oil as you applied it. Has anyone else had any problems with the Tried and True Varnish oil.

[Jim Becker]

Todd is correct, P&L #38 has an amber tone and like all oil varnishes, it will get a little darker over time. However, what is nice about it is that it's formulated with soya oil and is MUCH lighter than BLO or Tung-based varnishes. (McCloskey Heirloom is similarly formulated)

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Chris, I also don't prefer the T&T Varnish Oil, but love the original and BLO/wax formulations. (The finish on my recent mantle project is the latter) The varnish oil has been inconsistant for me. I haven't tried heating it, although I have done that with the other formulas, especially in colder months.

[Chris Daigh]

Thanks Jim, I don't think I will use that.

[Martin Shupe]

Martin,

What was the problem with the Tried and True Varnish Oil. I ask because I was going to use it on a table top. Did you heat the oil as you applied it. Has anyone else had any problems with the Tried and True Varnish oil.

I tried to use the Varnish oil and it wouldn't dry in the Texas humidity. I tried it both ways, heated and unheated. It would not dry, then I was gone for a week, and when I came home, it has seeped out of the pores, and then it had dried...leaving lots of bumps.

I talked to Chris Becksvoort about this, and he said in his FWW article, he originally wrote to let each coat dry for a week. When the editors were through, they had changed it to "a few days". I am here to tell you, a few days, at least in Texas, won't cut it. He also said, the most important coat to get absolutely dry is the first. If it is not dry, and you put another coat on, you will have a sticky mess. As soon as he said that, I realized that was what I had done.

FWIW, after I talked to Jim Becker (see above), I used the "original" formula, and liked it much better. I might suggest you try my technique of 2 coats original, followed by Waterlox. Waterlox is easy to use, and wipes on, and looks great. I am very pleased with Waterlox. I have also been told that you can skip the BLO, and thin the first coat of Waterlox with naptha or mineral spirits, and it will pop the grain and reduce blotching.

Waterlox should protect a tabletop well, and if you need to recoat later, it will stick to itself without resanding.

[Chris Daigh]

I have used the original, it is so awesome. So you put Waterlox over the original. How does it adhere to the wax. Also do I just buy the clear Waterlox or is there a satin. I'm doing a cherry dining table. Right now I am putting shellac down and then I'm not sure. Can I then put Original Tried and True and then a clear or satin Waterlox. Thanks, don't mean to hijack your thread.

[Martin Shupe]

I have used the original, it is so awesome. So you put Waterlox over the original. How does it adhere to the wax. Also do I just buy the clear Waterlox or is there a satin. I'm doing a cherry dining table. Right now I am putting shellac down and then I'm not sure. Can I then put Original Tried and True and then a clear or satin Waterlox. Thanks, don't mean to hijack your thread.

Not sure what you mean about wax. I have not used shellac, except Zissner's, and I used that inside a drawer and didn't use anything else with it.

I put the T&T on the bare wood after sanding to 220, 320 on end grain. A couple coats will pop the grain. WHEN it is dry, I put Waterlox Original sealer..."medium sheen". If you wipe on several coats with a paper towel, you will see the sheen develop. When you like the sheen, stop. My wife likes it shiny, I like it a little less shiny. For a table, I would use at least 4 wiped on coats for protection, possibly 5 or 6.

Medium sheen waterlox is in the square can, as opposed to the round quarts.

[Chris Daigh]

The Original has wax in it. Zinssers is what I am using. So maybe I will just top the shellac with the waterlox. Thanks for the info on it.

One more question, how did you thin the Waterlox. Is there a ratio or how did you do it.

[Martin Shupe]

The Original has wax in it. Zinssers is what I am using. So maybe I will just top the shellac with the waterlox. Thanks for the info on it.

One more question, how did you thin the Waterlox. Is there a ratio or how did you do it.

http://www.triedandtruewoodfinish.com/products.htm

I used the wrong terminology and confused you (and myself).

There are 3 types of T&T. Linseed Oil, Linseed Oil and Beeswax, Linseed Oil and Varnish. I called what I used "Original". Look at the link above, and you will find that I am wrong. "Original" refers to the one with beeswax. I am sorry about the confusion. The one I use under Waterlox is the T&T Pure Linseed Oil only (no beeswax).

As far as thinning Waterlox, I have not done it yet, but was told I could by Ellis Wallentine, who uses Waterlox a lot, and who also said that it is the preferred finish of Frank Klaus. He said to thin it 50-50 with either naptha or mineral spirits. I would start with a half a cup of each, and then keep it sealed like the Waterlox. Oxygen will solidify Waterlox, so I transfer leftovers to a smaller container to make it last longer. He said if you used the thinned Waterlox for the first one or two coats, it will pop the grain, then you can switch to full strength Waterlox.

Sorry about the confusion, I hope I cleared things up.

[Martin Shupe]

Martin, call Walnut Hill Paint in Dallas. 972 484-5800. They stock it in all three sheens. If you go there you better stop by here to say hi. Theyare on Royal Ln east of 35.

Thanks for the info Steve...and I will stop by. I'll call you when I am going to go there.

[Tom Pritchard]

Martin, is there any chance you could post a picture of your project that you finish with the P&L 38? I would really like to see what it looks like. Thanks.

[Chris Daigh]

Thanks Martin you have been very helpful, sorry to clutter up your thread.

[Martin Shupe]

Martin, is there any chance you could post a picture of your project that you finish with the P&L 38? I would really like to see what it looks like. Thanks.

Yes, but I hope you know I am the slowest woodworker in the west. It may be a year before the project I have in mind is done...I've got several in the works, and my wife has decreed that I have to finish the ones I have started before I start any new ones. The started ones are all cherry, and I wanted the PL38 for maple. Maybe I can get a sample board done before then, and post a pic of that.

I picked some PL 38 this morning at the place Steve mentioned in Dallas. Afterwards, I stopped in to say hi to Steve. He showed me a couple of projects he was working on. One had trays and hidden magnets to keep them in place. I should have taken some pics, sorry. Another was a huge glass display case out of oak, stained with a walnut finish. Then he was working on some shelves for a beauty shop. If anyone has a need for custom made furniture in the Dallas-Ft. Worth area, I would highly recommend Steve Jenkins. I know he is too shy to toot his own horn, so I'll do it for him! ;)

[Martin Shupe]

Thanks Martin you have been very helpful, sorry to clutter up your thread.

No problem Chris, sorry I was so confused. Let me know how it works for you.

[Donnie Raines]

Hey Martin,

Glad your going to give P&L a go....really good stuff.

Man..I did'nt realize there even was a finishing forum unitl now..... :rolleyes:

[James Carmichael]

Yes, but I hope you know I am the slowest woodworker in the west.

Hah, Bet I could outdo ya in a slowness contest, Martin! And I'm right up 377 from you in Benbrook.

I'll be interested in the outcome of your P&L-finished project, if you use it.

I'm finishing a red oak longbow for my daughter (since this one has a deadline attached, I am finishing it, but just barely in time!). I went at lunch today to the Walnut Hill paint store to pick up the P&L 38, but left with the McCloskey Man O War varnish, which they recommended as more durable.

[Steve Jenkins]

Hah, Bet I could outdo ya in a slowness contest, Martin! And I'm right up 377 from you in Benbrook.

I'll be interested in the outcome of your P&L-finished project, if you use it.

I'm finishing a red oak longbow for my daughter (since this one has a deadline attached, I am finishing it, but just barely in time!). I went at lunch today to the Walnut Hill paint store to pick up the P&L 38, but left with the McCloskey Man O War varnish, which they recommended as more durable.
and you couldn't even stop in to say hi. :o :)

[James Carmichael]

Is that your shop, Steve? I just got the location off of P&L's website, it's the nearest to my office.

[Steve Jenkins]

Is that your shop, Steve? I just got the location off of P&L's website, it's the nearest to my office.
Not really. My shop is just off Royal the other side of I35.

[James Carmichael]

Not really. My shop is just off Royal the other side of I35.

OK, well what is your shop? I'll be glad to come pay you a visit.

[Steve Jenkins]

Sorry,
check my web site www.stephen-jenkins.com