Thinking of buying a new jointer and need advice

[Jay Bruckner]

Well, I have a 6" Jet jointer that I've been using for a few years and it's time to move up. It's frustrating to have a nice wide board and have to rip it in half just to joint it, so I'm looking to get a 12" Grizzly. I have a lot of big wide boards that I milled with my chainsaw and Alaskan jig, so I would be doing a lot of ripping unless I upgrade.

I'm really not crazy about spending the big money, and I'd prefer to get a smaller, lighter machine, but I don't think an 8" jointer is going to suffice, unless one of you have a top notch suggestion on how I can joint a 12" board on an 8" jointer.

I've also looked at this: http://www.finewoodworking.com/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesArticle.aspx?id=5245

Do any of you have any experience with using a sled like that with a planer to joint wide boards? It seems like it would be more trouble than just slapping the board down on the jointer and running it across, but how much more? Do you think it's worth it to save the cost of a 12" jointer?

[Matthew Hills]

I'd also recommend taking a look at:
http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/milling-wide-boards/


Matt

[Andrew Pitonyak]

It takes more time / effort to joint a board on a planer using a sled, but I don't own a jointer and I don't really have room for one either. If you want to get a feel for how it will work, take something flat (like some MDF or even a piece of plywood) and then make a simple sled. Attach a 1/4" piece along the front that you can push the board against (because the planer pushes the wood forward and you don't want it to be pushed off your sled).

Next, slap a wide piece of wood on there and shim it. Then how do you secure the shims? You can use hot melt glue or even painters tape I suppose.

Something simple like this can be tried with little expense (compared to a 12" jointer). Note that a fancy sled will be easier to use because you won't need to secure your shims and such.

[Sam Layton]

Hi Jay,

I had an 8" jointer, and I was never happy with it. It was not large enough. I was like you, I did not want to spend the money to get a larger jointer. However, I did. I purchased a MiniMax 16" jointer. The bed is 103" long. I considered a 12", but I did not want to ever buy another jointer. I am sure a 12" would be fine. For me, the 16" is perfect, especially with the long bed. So far, I have never had a board to wide to join. That being said, I always have boards wider than 8", but I don't think I ever have boards wider than 12"

Regarding those sleds; If you only had one board to join ever, and no others, maybe the sled would be OK. But I join every board I use. I can not imagine doing the sled thing on all of the boards I use. I don't think it is worth using a sled to save the money that a larger jointer will cost.

My feeling is to buy the largest jointer that you can afford, in the 12" and up range. Then you will never have to worry about buying another jointer again. Mine will out last me.

In addition, the way you join a 12" board with an 8" jointer is, rip it in half...

Sam

[David Nelson1]

Sounds to me that a combo machine (http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-Jointer-Planer/G0633)would be what your looking for. No need to have a planer or jointer that don't compliment each other. I have a 8" jointer that I added a spiral head to and a 20" planer. Do I need a 20 inch, no it was to good to pass up. Both require entirely too much room. Once i get done with a few things around the house I might move to combo machine as well. Just a thought!

[Frank Drew]

I don't think an 8" jointer is going to suffice, unless one of you have a top notch suggestion on how I can joint a 12" board on an 8" jointer.

Jay,

I'd never try to talk someone out of getting a bigger machine, but you can effectively face joint a board that's just under twice the width of your cutterhead, so you can run an 11+" board on a 6" jointer, a 15+" board on an 8" jointer, etc.. (I'm with you in not liking to rip wide boards unless I absolutely have to.)

Depending on how much needs to be taken off, this will probably take several passes, flipping the board end for end after each pass while keeping the same face down (you've removed the guard and set the fence to a bit over half the width of the board). There will probably be a bit of unevenness, maybe a ridge left around the middle of the board but the reference surface you created will be straight enough along its length and flat enough across its width to then run through the planer, jointed face down, without deflecting. That's all you need, after all.

A planer sled would also work but the jointer method is much quicker.

[Jay Bruckner]

Yes, I've tried the overhanging board method on the jointer. I guess it's probably just my poor technique or lack of experience, but I'm not very good at it. Maybe I should give it another go. Most of my boards are about 12" or less, so the 6" jointer could do it.

For a savings of $2500 I think I might at least try the sled before I buy. I found some people here who have built it: http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/viewer-projects/planer-sled/

[David Kumm]

Don't forget used. Older larger jointers in good condition are pretty reasonable and almost always higher quality until you get to the SCMI range for new. $2500 buys a way better used than new. Dave

[Keith Hankins]

Well, I have the griz 12" so I can say it's an ok jointer. No issues since i owned it about 5 years now. However, i'm going to make a suggestion to you. Go get an old american piece of iron. You can find them very resonable and they are much better. start by going to the old woodworking site and i just wish i'd learned about it before i bought all my griz stuff. It's ok, don't get me wrong but not in the same league IMO.

[Mel Fulks]

I agree with David,seen some good ones go for 1200 or less. I think the rebuild drawback is overly stressed.Stay away from things that have been welded and accept the fact that someone has probably "adjusted" the tables and you will have to put them back. There are some definite advantages to the old ones . Many of them will take off an inch at one time,that means that you can "straight line" crooked edges without a straightline saw.Please see my 'jointer pointer' post,too.

[Jay Bruckner]

Where is this old woodworking site?

[David Kumm]

Where is this old woodworking site?
vintagemachinery.com and owwm.org are the two old iron sites. You can get pictures and download literature on vintage and get advise and machines for sale by members on owwm.org
Dave

[Keith Hankins]

Sorry thought it was in my sig but that's a different site. It's fantastic and so much knowledge there. I'm also reccomend www.searchtempest.com. It searches surrounding craig's list based on distance from your zip. Great tool. I found an original 34 12" delta with original motor and stickers for 200. I bought a monster of a 16" walker-turner BS that I'm replacing the bearings in and it will be a beast for 125$. I bought a 1960's Norfield 18" plainer for 1500 that is 15,000 new. You see the trend here. You will see on the classifieds regular posts for battleship jointers for great prices cheaper than what I paid for my new griz. Another site is www.irsauctions.com it sells surplus industrial equipment and some of those go for steals. Now I make one disclaimer. A lot of the old stuff runs on 3 phase motors and it scared me in the beginning, but I put in a rotary phase converter and its not big deal. You can replace those motors if needed or put in VFC's for a dedicated machine cheap too. Once you have had one of those beasts you will never ever consider the chinese stuff again. Again, I have a griz 12" jointer, 1023TS, and 17HD" bandsaw. The are ok tools, but if I had the magical do-over button, I'd do it differently and save a lot of money. All you need is to be persistent and look. Take care.

Here's my planer!

http://youtu.be/ufIlay_PrVI

http://www.owwm.org/index.php

[Frank Drew]

Don't forget used. Older larger jointers in good condition are pretty reasonable and almost always higher quality until you get to the SCMI range for new. $2500 buys a way better used than new. Dave

Well, yes, this is the route I'd go, and although I haven't looked at the market lately I'd think that $2500 could get you a pretty sweet used machine, and you might find one for a lot less.

[Frank Drew]

I think the rebuild drawback is overly stressed.

I agree with this, too; these machines were built to last a very long time without a lot of fussing and fooling around with parts wearing out. I bought a 1950s Northfield in 1981 and simply put it into service once I'd sharpened the knives; everything else was right on the money.

[Stephen Cherry]

I've got an older 12" tiawanese Griz, and it's a pretty nice machine, and I like it even more since I have learned how to sharpen the blades in place on the machine. I've thought about upgrading, but I really don't know what it would get me. I think I paid about 1k.

Jay-- what is your general geographic location? I come across deals from time to time on my internet searches, and I am sure that others do also.

[Jay Bruckner]

I'm in Cleveland, OH. I don't doubt the older American-made jointers were better than the new Chinese versions, but the only thing I worry about with getting a used machine is that I'm getting a broken down piece of junk. I'm not mechanically gifted at all to repair it if it breaks down or even determine what's wrong with it.

[Carl Beckett]

Lots of 12", or 16" jointers on CL

I bought a 12" for $1500 (not a blowout bargain, but fair). Have seen old Porters for similar $ (think I even posted a link in the bargains forum a while back - oh, I just put one up two days ago for a 12" for $600). There isnt much to break on these older machines (once you see them you will see why.... half ton or more of iron)

My advice Jay: Just specify to the group here where you live, how far you would be willing to travel to pickup, and what your budget is. We LOVE shopping for other people and spending other peoples money. :) Within a week you will have a dozen great deals, with every consideration given for quality.

Make a post titled: "Help me buy a used jointer" Heck, you may even get some volunteers to go with you and check it out (if local), and 'maybe' help sharpen some knives if needed. (of course, I could be wrong...... )

[Paul McGaha]

I started out with a 6" JET jointer.

Kept it a few years and upgraded to an 8" jointer, a Powermatic PJ-882. This is a very good 8" jointer, but it's still an 8" jointer.

The largest width of the stock I buy is usually around 12". It would be very nice to have a 12" jointer. A new one, with a Byrd Head, from someone like Grizzly or Powermatic, is around $5K to $6K. Be great to find a low mile used one and save some.

PHM

[Keith Hankins]

I'm in Cleveland, OH. I don't doubt the older American-made jointers were better than the new Chinese versions, but the only thing I worry about with getting a used machine is that I'm getting a broken down piece of junk. I'm not mechanically gifted at all to repair it if it breaks down or even determine what's wrong with it.

As someone who owns chinese (my bad) and been up close with the old American, there is no comparison, not close not even in the same class. It's like comparing Michael Jordan to High school teen player. The beauty of those machines that generally the only thing that needs tending (ever) is bearings and wiring. Not a big deal and cheap to do and if you don't want to do it get someone to do it for you. It would still be better. A lot of the folks on the OWW forum make a decent living replacing minor things and selling and getting them going again. Some rehabs are almost museum quality. If you ever get to look at one of those battle ship 12" or 16" jointers (pre-80's) you would understand. But we do live in a throw away time. My 1934 delta BS with original motor and bearings still going strong.

[glenn bradley]

I've also looked at this: http://www.finewoodworking.com/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesArticle.aspx?id=5245

Do any of you have any experience with using a sled like that with a planer to joint wide boards? It seems like it would be more trouble than just slapping the board down on the jointer and running it across, but how much more? Do you think it's worth it to save the cost of a 12" jointer?

I have direct experience with that jig (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?58735-Planer-Sled-2-0). I used it for quite awhile when saving up for an 8" spiral head jointer (wish I'd gotten the 12"). It worked very well for me although it, of course involves some setup and a bit of lugging about that you would not have if you had a large jointer. It does take up much less floor space than a large jointer if that is a consideration. It was reasonably quick to make and I still use it now and again. When not in use, it hangs on the wall or sets flat on top of the lumber rack.

[Brian Brightwell]

I bought a 16inch Polamco Unitronix jointer a little over a year ago. Paid $1700. It was one of my better purchases. It has improved my woodworking greatly, It needed bearings and some other little things. it weights a ton literally.

[Rick Fisher]

I have a 12" Griggio.. Its awesome 99% of the time .. it has a 4hp motor which has proven to be more than ample for horsepower ..

I would trade it for a mini max 410 16" jointer, but cant see myself ever upgrading due to the cost and well.. its a hobby ..

About 3 times in the last 3 years, my 12" jointer has been too narrow.. I do counter tops and make the sections 11" wide so I can face joint them .. If I had a 16" jointer, I would make them 15" wide..

Bigger is better.. no question.. My machine is quite remarkable. High quality, heavy .. and almost never too narrow... but a Mini Max 410 would be better, and a Martin 20" would be even better than that !

Also.. I think my jointer beds take up 97" .. The SCM is 103 " .. There have been times when the extra inches would have been convenient .. Bigger is better..