Tall Modern Bar Chair -- Need Some Expert Help!!

[Jeff Hamilton Jr.]

Many of you have probably encountered this: a friend has a piece of furniture in need of repair, and, viola! You are a "woodworker! You can fix it!" That's my dilemma. My friend had his entire house's furniture custom-made. It is very attractive stuff. These bar chairs are no exception. However, the strength of the design is clearly lacking (see photos). There is a stub of a tenon (1/2" long) and then two pocket hole screws. The length of the legs are 26" to the bottom of the small mortise. The only other support is the small 45 glue blocks that were, again, end-grain glued and nailed to each rail/stile (pictured) and then screwed into the plywood seat base.

I told him I'd try to repair it and have it apart. I've re-glued the pocket holes where they blew out. However, I don't know what to do about the mortise and tenons. It appears that the cheeks of the tenons were not glued, only the end-grain; perhaps that is one problem. However, just properly gluing them doesn't seem to solve the problem of the incredible racking force the chair takes based on its height and lack of any stretchers from front legs to back.

Any of you chairmakers or "fixers" out there with ideas would be truly appreciated!

Thanks in advance.

Jeff239119

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[Jeff Hamilton Jr.]

Here are a couple more pictures; I couldn't get them all on the first post.
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[lowell holmes]

I'm no expert, but I would consider making new rails with through tenons. However, I'm not sure that would be a permanent fix.

Perhaps if the piece was made of white oak, it might last.

[Pat Barry]

Wow, custom made and put together with pocket screws. That was destined for failure. I hope the rest of the custom work was constructed better. How to fix this though? A very common method is to use dual dowels at each joint, make them large and long and depend on them. Fix the corner braces to provide more strength by screwing them to the rails with two screws each end. Everything here is end grain glue ups which are no good, hence the dowels provide the strength by minimizing the dependence on the end grain glue. I suspect all the chairs should be redone now before they fail and destroy the wood you need for doweling into. This is going to be tricky to do though. I would be seriously angry with this construction method though because I'm sure the expense was high as was their expectations because of the cost of custom made. Have they contacted the builder about replacement / refund?

One more thing, It looks like they were going for a cherry look, but the end grain doesn't look like cherry. It looks like a softer wood. Not sure what though. That in itself is more bad news for this project.

[Jeff Wittrock]

I'm no expert on chairs, but I suspect anything that is done to repair the existing joinery is a temporary fix. I just can't imagine anything you do to the existing joint that could stand up to the racking as you already mentioned. I don't know if your friend has any young kids, but if so then I am almost positive they won't hold up. I can remember my Dad constantly yelling at me for leaning back in our chairs, and it wouldn't take much leaning to break these.

If it were me, I would probably add angled stretchers between the front and back legs sloping down towards the back legs. I would also dowel the existing joints as already mentioned. Probably more work than you would like to have, but that's just my best guess.

[Sam Murdoch]

I can't see any viable repair to the one chair that won't need to be done to the entire set as any real fix should include a a 2 or 4 stretcher set added to each base. Is a redesign possible or are you being asked to make magic?

[Jeff Hamilton Jr.]

Thanks to all for the input. Sam, for me, a redesign isn't in the cards. I do this as a hobby, and not too often at that! Too busy with the day job and other responsibilities. I'd love to be able to patch it for him so that it has some use again, but I can't redesign.

I do like Pat's idea of dowels. I'm assuming Pat, that you mean to install the dowels in the space where the pocket screws were? Kind of a second tenon next and parallel to the stubby one? That plus beefing up the glue block would seem to add some rigidity. I think he likes the look of the open and airy bottom, sans stretchers, which is probably why there aren't any. However, because of that, I agree the maker chose the wrong type of wood. It feels like some sort of softwood and open pored. Definitely not maple, cherry or any other dense, closed grain hardwood.

If anyone has other brainstorming ideas . . . keep 'em coming!

Thanks again.

Jeff

[Kenneth Speed]

The way the tenons were glued tells me that the chairs weren't custom chairs but production frames that were custom upholstered. The person who assembled that frame was probably on piecework and had a pressure hose glue system or maybe just a glue bottle, he just shot some glue in and pushed the tenon home. I used to fix a lot of chairs that had the same problem.

Yes, dowels are good but they aren't going to save these chairs, not now, not the way they're built. The racking that those joints have to resist with those long legs is ferocious and the present construction won't withstand it. These need front to back stretchers and more than that crappy dowel across the front legs. The problem is that the repair will probably cost more than buying new chairs.

Tell your friend the truth; what else can you do?

Ken

[Jim Matthews]

Is there sufficient reveal on the inside of the frame to put in a parallel rail?

If you double up the tenons, they might last a little longer.
The lever action of those long legs as the user pushes back is a design challenge
beyond the capability of a couple little screws and glue...

[Patrick McCarthy]

"My friend had his entire house's furniture custom-made. It is very attractive stuff. These bar chairs are no exception."

Well different strokes for different folks, I guess. Don't hold me in contempt, but I think the best bet might be to have your bailiff use it for target practice.

IF you are going to attempt to fix it, at a minimun it needs stretchers, dowels or dominoes, more uniform gluing and larger corner blocks, but I would still be nervous to have a well-fed person sitting in it and especially not in any of its mates, assuming they share similar construction.

Another thought, if you really want to save it, might be to drill from behind, use a 4 inch screw thru the back leg into the side support, and then cover the screw head hole with a plug, but it will still need stretchers to control some of the forces.

Good luck, Patrick

[Jeff Hamilton Jr.]

... Don't hold me in contempt ...

Good luck, Patrick

ABSOLUTELY NOT!

You get extra points for the good humor. I knew that opener was an opening!