Planing Cherry

[Dale Cruea]

I have not been working with hand planes very long. Most of my planing has been with WO or African Mahogany.

I just picked up some cherry for a new project.
I find it is very hard to hand plane. All tools are sharp. All of my hand planes push like a stalled truck.

The grain looks good and straight.

Should cherry be hard to hand plane?

Thanks, Dale

[Don Dorn]

No, but cherry is not my first hand tool choice - it's usually not very straight grained so tearout can be a problem. However, between a sharp plane and a scraper, you can do well with it.

As to your planes being hard to push, it's hard to say and many others can give better advise, but suspicisions are that you may have the iron to set too deep, your blade is not as sharp as you think, or there may be a pronounced back bevel on the blade for some reason. I'm assuming you have a Stanley type plane. If it's a bevel up plane, you probably have too steep an angle on the blade. Anyway, my .02.

[Jim Stewart]

You need to try the Veritas Bevel up smoother. Working with Cherry is a little tough. Your planes should not push hard, however. Don said planes are set too deep. Sounds like a good call. Cherry is worth the effort I think. Razor sharp and thin shavings. The LV smoother is amazing but does take some horse power to push. Pay attention to grain. Finish with scraper.

Jim

[Jim Matthews]

Have you applied wax to the sole of your plane?

[Salem Ganzhorn]

I usually find WO to be at least as difficult to work as cherry. Cherry usually planes beautifully for me. And I love the smell! Keep some of the shavings for burnishing other woods as well. If your plane is hard to push then I would guess you are planing in the wrong direction or too deep of a cut. But I can usually take a pretty deep cut on cherry...
Salem

[Prashun Patel]

If you can plane who and African mahogany, you can plane cherry. Those woods can be prone to tear out as well. Try a lighter pass.

[Chris Griggs]

Generally, cherry works quite easily with planes, BUT I once ended up with some that, while especially beautiful was very very hard and quite a bit more difficult than usual to plane - thinking back on it now, I think it came from an area of the tree near where one or more very large limbs may had branched off. It may be possible that you got a piece/batch that is an outlier in terms of hardness. As others have said, you may just need to take a lighter cut than usual.

[Bob Jones]

I use handplanes for all surfacing and I almost only work with cherry and walnut. I think cherry planes really nice, but there is variation in each board, even within the boards. Please post close-up pictures of the boards that are trouble for you. The grain gives clues :)

Tips -
Are your tools REALLY sharp? Try holding a piece of paper in front of you (in the air). A sharp blade will cut through it and leave a perfect cut with no pressure and just a bit of movement. If it does not cut, or leaves a rough edge - try sharpening again. A dull edge is 99% of the problem.

Are you planning against the grain? Try the other direction.

Can you effortlessly plane across the grain? If not, something is wrong (see tip 1).

Back up the blade all the way into the plane. Lower while planning until you touch wood. Take light shavings for a while.

How "open" is the mouth? A really tight mouth makes them hard to push, even if you don't think it is clogging up.

How close to the edge is the chip breaker? Back it off about an 1/8 inch and try that.

Good luck!

[Dale Cruea]

Thanks for all the tips. I will give them all a try. I may not have my irons as sharp as I think and I am still trying to understand the mouth/chip breaker stuff.
I can fix the tear out pretty easily with my #3 smoother.

[Peter Pedisich]

Dale, I've only used Cherry on one project, but it planed very smoothly with my ECE Primus smoother... maybe the 50deg angle helped?

[Dale Cruea]

I tried a few things.
Sharpened irons again. Tried the paper cutting thing... Did not work. Stropped some more. Cut paper very nicely. and hair.
Took thinner cuts.
Moved chip breaker back a little. That really helped. Opened the mouth a little more.
Works a whole lot better.
All but one of my planes are Stanley types. Old and LN. One is a LV LABU jack. Nice plane for this work. Works great with very little tear out when taking heavy cuts.
I may have to get the smoother from LV also.

I have been using paraffin on the soles of the planes and that helps greatly.

Thanks again for the help.

[Correy Smith]

Jim , if your hand planing why would you want to diminish the hand planed surface with a scraper? With a well tuned plane it should be a noticeable bit nicer surface than a scraped surface.

[Tony Shea]

As others have said Cherry planes up nicely. There are typically spots of tearout as the grain will usually change directions on wide flat sawn pieces but in general cherry is a great hand tool hardwood, especially when compared to WO. I also like working WO but certain batches of this stuff can be extremely hard! I've had white oak that was almost as hard and heavy as rosewood. I've saved a few small scraps to use for around the shop for tools and other items. Cherry is probably my favorite domestic wood and I work it more than any other species. I can't get enough of it.

[Patrick Tipton]

Jim , if your hand planing why would you want to diminish the hand planed surface with a scraper? With a well tuned plane it should be a noticeable bit nicer surface than a scraped surface.

Correy - I am interested in understanding why you say this.

In my experience, a well tuned scraper cuts just as well as a plane (and better on difficult grain) although it is utilizing a burr rather than the sharpened edge of the blade. A planed or scraped surface is much nicer than a sanded surface, but I can't tell the difference between the plane and scraper.

[Jim Stewart]

Dale, You should go to Woodworking in America. All of the handtool vendors are there. They are very helpful and will allow hands on work and give you great tips. WOA will be in November this year at Cincinnati. I think it is $10 at the door to just view the vendor area. They sent me a coupon to get in for $5 last year. It is about three hundred if you want to go to classes. I have never done the classes but I learn a great deal there every year. A handtool paradise. Last year at the LN display they showed me how to start a English dovetail saw. I now use that over the Japan style. Plus LN and LV will give you free shipping if they don't have the item there for sale. Good luck!

[Tony Shea]

Correy - I am interested in understanding why you say this.

In my experience, a well tuned scraper cuts just as well as a plane (and better on difficult grain) although it is utilizing a burr rather than the sharpened edge of the blade. A planed or scraped surface is much nicer than a sanded surface, but I can't tell the difference between the plane and scraper.

In my experience a scraped surface, no matter how nice and smooth of a burr you've made, creates a much fuzzier surface than a planned surface at a standard 45* angle. I assume this to be true due to the high angle of attack produced by the scraper as my higher angle planes produce a surface slightly less smooth than my standard angle planes. And my japanese smoother bedded at 42* produces the nicest surface of them all, hands down!

[Jack Curtis]

In my experience a scraped surface, no matter how nice and smooth of a burr you've made, creates a much fuzzier surface than a planned surface at a standard 45* angle. I assume this to be true due to the high angle of attack produced by the scraper as my higher angle planes produce a surface slightly less smooth than my standard angle planes. And my japanese smoother bedded at 42* produces the nicest surface of them all, hands down!

Scraper use does seem to tear out more than plane use; but I'm not sure that's because of higher angles. I've got Japanese smoothers bedded at 45° that do fine, great surface producers; so I'd suspect the blade, small mouth (I know, the chip breaker enthusuasts say the mouth does nothing for you), sole structure, and other things to be responsible for superior performance. This holds for blades used with and without subblades.

[Mel Fulks]

Whenever I see anything about sharpening and using scrapers I think of Tony,one of the best cabinetmakers ever seen around here. He could make an extension table so accurately,planing,scraping, and sanding all by hand; that you could not feel the fit between any of the leaves. He had worked years ago with a guy most people considered a talentless drunk who was an ace at sharpening and using scrapers.Tony had asked the guy for help and received it. But even with the instruction he could never do as well.Years later he was still envious of the guy's one talent. No one is going to be the best at every aspect of his trade.Sometimes practice just can't trump a natural knack.

[Patrick Tipton]

In my experience a scraped surface, no matter how nice and smooth of a burr you've made, creates a much fuzzier surface than a planned surface at a standard 45* angle.

Interesting. Not my experience.

I was taught to use a scraper with swirly and difficult grain and can usually get a finish ready surface quickly. The shavings look just like a very fine shaving from a plane.

I don't know if I have ever even gotten tearout from a scraper. In my experience, they either cut almost imperceptibly (little surface improvement while making sawdust) or leave fine shavings and leave a mirror surface.

[Jack Curtis]

Patrick, I think my use of tearout is the wrong description. I was talking about a certain uneveness or roughness to the surface, which might be considered very shallow tearout, but this is probably an over statement.

[Prashun Patel]

Scrapers can indeed produce a surface comparable to that of a plane. The key is honing the edge of the scraper to a mirror edge as you would a plane blade. The burr is only as keen as the edge from which it's raised. Also, if yr burnisher is imperfect, then it will compromise the burr.

A less-than-perfectly honed scraper edge will still raise a burr issue curly shavings, but they won't be finish-quality. I still think they're valuable for initial smoothing work. Where they really excel, IMHO is on curved surfaces, where you can alter the radius cheaply and quickly to get a perfect smoother for a chair seat or spindle.

Also, I read it many times, but did not believe it until I tested it myself: if you are putting any kind of film-forming (i.e, varnish, shellac, lacquer) topcoat, the difference between a sanded, scraped, and planed surface is not detectable to many people (read, me).

[Stew Hagerty]

Have you applied wax to the sole of your plane?

I keep a stick of beeswax in a little holder by my bench. I reach for it as soon as I get a plane in my hands.

[Zach Dillinger]

I prefer paraffin, but any wax is better than no wax.

[Jim Stewart]

Scrapers are great but I think maybe a lost art. Fine WoodWorking had an article on this issue before last I think. As Prashun states you are working with a metal edge and if you don't do it properly you won't get good results. Once you get the 90 degree edge and flats to a fine finish, you must draw out the edge with a burnisher along the large flat edge of the scraper holding the burnisher flat on that surface. The last step is to set the burnisher at 5 degrees and produce the cutting edge with the scraper held in a vice. Don't overdo this. Medium pressure and a few passes. You want to have a small fine cutting edge not a huge edge. Also you want to cut with the scraper at as high an angle as it will cut. I like the Veritas burnisher that has the burnisher angle setting. If you use one of these you will need a second hard piece of metal to draw the edges.
I always have a few plane marks left over and a scraper with fix these nicely.

[Stew Hagerty]

I prefer paraffin, but any wax is better than no wax.

I meant paraffin. I just had used some beeswax/BLO/turpentine mixture the other day, so I guess I had beeswax on the brain.

[Dale Cruea]

When I started this post I was in need of new water stones as mine were getting close to the end of their useful life. They still worked but not much left.
I was waiting a new set of stones from Stuart Tearney.
The stones arrived 3 days ago. NOW I understand what you all mean by sharp.
My irons have NEVER been this sharp. The effort to plane this cherry has been reduced by 1/2. This is how I remember hand planing from when I started.
Super sharp, spooky sharp even.
Dove tail cutting has greatly been improved with sharp chisels.
Thanks for all the help and tips and a special thanks to Stuart for recommending these stones.

[Patrick Tipton]

My irons have NEVER been this sharp. The effort to plane this cherry has been reduced by 1/2. This is how I remember hand planing from when I started

Congrats.

That is one of the benefits of learning from someone who has mastered tool setup and sharpening. You "remember" how the tool is supposed to cut, and know that you have not set it up to cut that way. Back to the sharpening station you go.