Wrap around toe kick on end-of-run base cabinet - looking for advice

[scott vroom]

I've decided to incorporate wrap-around recessed toe kicks on the end-of-run base cabinets. I'm thinking the best way to do this is to build a separate base that is narrower (on the outboard side) and shallower than the cab footprint. Seems like a no-brainer....just wanted to make sure I wasn't overlooking something. Anyone build base cabinets this way?

[Peter Quinn]

The ones I've made at work usually have some type of ogee feet detail. We drop the FF stile to the ground, include a little scribe at the bottom. Glue in a block with the ogee or ovolo detail done on the BS at the intersection of rail and stile. If the plywood sides run to the ground on the base cabs we leave the end panel side short, so flush with the bottom partition, and step it back the depth of the toe kick, usually 3". The stepped back part gets pocket screwed on and backed with a block. If you are using ladder kicks (separate from the carcass) its a simple matter of making the end shorter. It looks great with teh built in feet detail, not so great to my eye with just open toe kicks, it looks rather institutional where it turns the corner that way, though the functionality is the same.

[scott vroom]

The ones I've made at work usually have some type of ogee feet detail. We drop the FF stile to the ground, include a little scribe at the bottom. Glue in a block with the ogee or ovolo detail done on the BS at the intersection of rail and stile. If the plywood sides run to the ground on the base cabs we leave the end panel side short, so flush with the bottom partition, and step it back the depth of the toe kick, usually 3". The stepped back part gets pocket screwed on and backed with a block. If you are using ladder kicks (separate from the carcass) its a simple matter of making the end shorter. It looks great with teh built in feet detail, not so great to my eye with just open toe kicks, it looks rather institutional where it turns the corner that way, though the functionality is the same.

Thanks Peter,

I'm having difficulty picturing those ogee feet....any chance you could post a pic?

I'm recessing the end toe kick because I don't want to drop the integrated finished end panel to the ground....I think it gives the cab a mass-produced look. My applied finished end panels are 31" tall, or 4" short of the floor...they stop at the bottom edge of the adjacent faceframe and in fact are attached to the faceframe. I'm thinking I'd reccess the end toe kick only 2 inches or so, just enough to offset the toe kick from the vertical plane of the end panel. I believe it gives the cabinet a more custom look. Still, your idea sounds interesting and I'd love to see a few pics....I'm always looking for new ways to build stuff.

[Mark Blum]

Scott, I'm building my cabinets exactly as you describe. I'll be constructing separate bases with a standard recess in front and around two inches or so on the ends of my two runs. I too didn't want my end panels to go to the floor, as they are integrated with the face frame.

This will allow me to install and level the bases separately, and simplifies base cabinet construction.

[Peter Quinn]

Scott, it embarrassing but I don't actually have a single pic. Most of the cabinets we do are for architects or designers, they don't like us posting pics of their designs anywhere, workers actually have to sign a weird contract to the extent that the work is the property of the designer etc. Anyway, I rarely take pics for that reason other than mental. But, I did find a pic that may convey the idea on the crown point cabinetry site.

http://www.crown-point.com/victorian/index.html

Look at figure 13. There is an island in the foreground that shows the furniture type foot application going around a corner as it applies to kitchen cabinetry. And in the back ground there is the second most popular way to end a run, the "bottom rail as base mold" approach. We make the furniture feet either as ogee or ovolo, sometimes a little more detail is specced as well, another quarter round perhaps with a step. But its similar to a furniture bracket foot, except the weight is really borne by the plywood cabinet, not the FF. Basically you run the stiles to the ground, plus maybe 1/2" for scribe, then glue in the detailed blocks using biscuits or even pocket screws.

With the "base mold" approach, the bottom rail is maybe 4"-6" tall and generally just a bit narrower than the adjacent base molding. Its a real popular look here in classic New England, might not make as much sense in a more contemporary house. The approach can easily be simplified to work well with a craftsman style home as well. Sorry to steal pics form crown point, though they do lovely work. Hope that illustrates the idea?

[Matt Meiser]

I'd just do the separate base too. Nice thing is that you can level just the base, then screw the cabinet boxes down to that. If you want a foot detail it can be added on depending on the desired appearance.

[scott vroom]

Scott, it embarrassing but I don't actually have a single pic. Most of the cabinets we do are for architects or designers, they don't like us posting pics of their designs anywhere, workers actually have to sign a weird contract to the extent that the work is the property of the designer etc. Anyway, I rarely take pics for that reason other than mental. But, I did find a pic that may convey the idea on the crown point cabinetry site.

http://www.crown-point.com/victorian/index.html

Look at figure 13. There is an island in the foreground that shows the furniture type foot application going around a corner as it applies to kitchen cabinetry. And in the back ground there is the second most popular way to end a run, the "bottom rail as base mold" approach. We make the furniture feet either as ogee or ovolo, sometimes a little more detail is specced as well, another quarter round perhaps with a step. But its similar to a furniture bracket foot, except the weight is really borne by the plywood cabinet, not the FF. Basically you run the stiles to the ground, plus maybe 1/2" for scribe, then glue in the detailed blocks using biscuits or even pocket screws.

With the "base mold" approach, the bottom rail is maybe 4"-6" tall and generally just a bit narrower than the adjacent base molding. Its a real popular look here in classic New England, might not make as much sense in a more contemporary house. The approach can easily be simplified to work well with a craftsman style home as well. Sorry to steal pics form crown point, though they do lovely work. Hope that illustrates the idea?


Peter, thanks for posting the link. Interesting style, more like furniture than cabinets...if that makes any sense :confused:

[scott vroom]

I'd just do the separate base too. Nice thing is that you can level just the base, then screw the cabinet boxes down to that. If you want a foot detail it can be added on depending on the desired appearance.

Thanks Matt...yup, I'm going to build a separate base to set up the end toe kick (not really a full toe kick, just recessed enough to offset the finished end panel...may 2" or so).

[Matt Meiser]

What I've been doing is just a 1/4" offset from the end panel and that doesn't require any special construction. I just make the applied end panel 3/4" thick, the same height as the face frame and the "side kick" is 1/2" thick. I'll post some pics later if I remember as I have exactly this situation in my laundry room and will be installing the trim tomorrow.

[Michael Wildt]

Peter, awesome pictures you pointed us to in http://www.crown-point.com/victorian/index.html. Nice work and detail for sure, wish I was that good.

I hope I can hijack this thread for one question. In figure #13 there is a picture of a micro wave with 'sliding' doors. I've been looking for ideas for our laundry area and if i could find hinges like that for full size doors it potentially could work. I've done some searching but I've not really been able to find what I want. Knowing the name of such hinge could definitely help, any chance you know ?

[Mark Blum]

Knowing the name of such hinge could definitely help, any chance you know ?
They are generally called pocket door slides or flipper door slides. Most woodworking hardware sources would carry them.

[Peter Quinn]

Pivot door slides, flipper door slides. Fussy install but really great functionality.

http://www.wwhardware.com/drawer-and-door-slides/door-slides/pivot-door-slides/

http://www.drawerslides.com/c/accuride-1332

We have done some pretty heavy doors with the second set, the accuride 1332's. There may be a limit to the thickness? Basically you attach cup hinges to the doors and the hinge clips to the slides. You have to have a pocket for them to open into, and it looks better when open if you add a partition in front of the door on the inside.

[Michael Wildt]

Excellent info. Thanks guys!! Yep, having a partition is definitely the way to go. Now I have to do some measuring because there is not a whole lot of space available. Thanks again!

[scott vroom]

I ended up recessing the end of the base 3" for the wrap around toe kick (2.25" after the 3/4" toe kick is installed). Thanks for the responses...very helpful.