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View Full Version : I need some advice on redoing around a tub with ceramic tile.



Rich Engelhardt
08-08-2012, 11:51 AM
Here's what I've got now.
30 year old or older ceramic tile that appears to be installed right over the 50 year old drywall.
Part of the wall is damaged and two of the old tile are broken.
The damaged part starts where the tile and tub meet and goes up the wall about 1 inches.
The rest of the wall and the rest of the tiles are fine - @ least it/they appear fine from the outside.

I'm not opposed to taking it all down to the studs - however - - -
There's a window half way up the wall that I would really not care to mess with....
I can't tell you how much I'd rather not mess with that window...

My wife wants me to try to salvage the old tile. I told her that's not going to happen.
I'd like to just remove the lower two feet down to the studs. (Did I mention there's a window & that I'd rather gargle ground glass than to have to mess with that window?)
My wife wants me to remove all the tile, it goes from the top of the tub to the ceiling, salvage the tile and reuse it.
No way, no how and I going to even begin to do that. I told her if she wants it salvaged, she can remove it and she can remove the old dred adhesive off the back - - and rotsa ruck w/that and keep in mind that you can only bust so many of them w/out having to try to find a replacement...

Anyhow - despite my not wanting to have to dig into around the window - I'm a realist...I'm thinking I have bettr odds winning the lottery w/out buying a ticketm than I have of not having to mess with that window & the tile around it.

I need some advice on where to look for information on installing ceramic tile from the bare studs out.
What should I use on the studs? Cement board or some sort of drywall?
I normally use Durock - the newer light weight stuff. Is there anything better?

The only real bright spot with this project is that I have about three weeks to do it. The tenant is gone for three weeks so I don't have to work around him.

Kevin Bourque
08-08-2012, 12:08 PM
Why is the window such a big deal? It just means there's less tile you have to install on that wall.

Anyway...I do lots of tile work and the simplest way to go is to install moisture resistant drywall over the studs and cover it with Schluter-Ditra or some other waterproofing membrane.

Rich Engelhardt
08-08-2012, 12:18 PM
I had a real bad experience once with a window in a wall above a tub in another house years back..
I'm just gun shy.

Less tile, yes, but, tile is pretty cheap. I'm sure there's more cutting involved though.

Bob Vavricka
08-08-2012, 1:49 PM
When it comes to tile work, my go to site for advice is the John Bridge tile forum. +1 for the Ditra.

Rich Engelhardt
08-08-2012, 5:18 PM
Weird....I started looking for prices on Ditra and the stuff has all of a sudden disappeared from just about everywhere?
What's up with that?
Home Depot doesn't carry it anymore & the Schulter website says the only stocking dealer in my area is Hartville Hardware.
According to the website, I can special order it from a couple of flooring places.

Joel Goodman
08-08-2012, 5:26 PM
I had a similar situation and replaced the damaged wall with Duroc -- fiberglass cement board. Then tiles in thinset mortar. I just did the damaged back wall which had a few loose tiles, but I did the entire wall. Been about 6 years and all is well. I was told the "waterproof" sheetrock is just a thin waterproof layer, while the Duroc is pretty solid stuff, although heavy and a PITA the deal with. Project was done over a long weekend including grout. Around the window just make sure the tiles angle to drain any water back to the tub.

Kevin Bourque
08-08-2012, 6:34 PM
When it comes to tile work, my go to site for advice is the John Bridge tile forum. +1 for the Ditra.

+1 for John Bridge. They have an amazing forum over there.

Lee Schierer
08-08-2012, 7:03 PM
When I did our bathroom 12 years ago, it had tile over plaster and blue board. I took it down to the studs. I covered the studs with 6 or 8 mill plastic and then 1/2 cement board. I used ceramic coated screws to attach the cement board to the studs. I went up about 5 feet, but didn't have to contend with a window. I used thin set with fiberglass tape for the joints and then applied the tile over teh cement board. So far no broken tile, and no leaks that I can find. You'll have to trail fit what ever you use on the thickness right to match the dry wall. Even a 1/16" height difference will give you fits when you try to put the tile over the joint

Mike Cutler
08-09-2012, 5:06 AM
A big +1 for the John Bridges Tile Forum.

You have to start from the wall out, but I think you know that already. That your install over wallboard lasted so long is amazing. Leveling layer,moisture layer, cement backer board than the tile.
As far as I know Ditra is only for floors. I guess something changed? Schulter's Kerdi system is for shower walls. Use silicone seal around the window area, and pay attention to your seams, No horizontal seam should overlap a vertical without being able to run water down the front of the vertical section.
The tile can be salvaged but it's a lot of work with a wire wheel and water. Very messy.
I'm not sure I agree that tile is cheap. Some is cheap, some is not. I've seen tile for < $1.00 a sq/ft, and I've seen it for over $200.00 a sq/ft. not custom painted either.

Rich Engelhardt
08-09-2012, 6:21 AM
Mike - trust me - the tile is going to be cheap..this is a rental house.
A usual, the budget for this is so tight that Lincoln is screaming as I pinch the pennies..:D

I really can't for the life of me figure out what's up with the Ditra!?!

A lot of people, both DIY and pro over at John Bridge use and recommend it for walls as well as floors.
What's weird is that Ditra has all but gone away around my parts in the last three/four months.
I looked into using it at another rental on the bathroom floor just a few months ago. Lowes carried it, but, they weren't into it all that much.
Home Depot, OTOH, had the whole nine yards. Membrane, corners, stainless steel edging,,etc,,,the works.
The local HD even built an elaborate display showcasing Ditra and playing up how superior the decoupling feature is.
Now HD doesn't even list it on their website.

Mike Cutler
08-09-2012, 1:25 PM
Strange??
I happened to be at both HD and Lowes this morning, and both had it. Don't know why it isn't available in your area. Of course that probably means it won't be available in my area soon either?

In your place I might take out the first course up from the tub all the way to the studs. If the drywall behind it isn't moldy, or crumbly, I'd stop there and probably remove one more course. Pop the second course of tile off carefully so that you can cut the drywall below the level of the course and seal it to a new substrate layer. Install a moisture barrier skirt, cement backer board and reinstall the one, upper, course of tile.This would leave your bottom course of field tile open. Find a compatible tile and do a trim layer around the bottom in whatever trim color would seem to match.
If you don't want to tear the whole shebang out, This would work. It certainly wouldn't be much different than what is already there.Everything revolves around the condition of the drywall underneath though.

Rich Engelhardt
08-09-2012, 5:26 PM
Welp....
2/3 of the tile is off.
No way any of it could be salvaged.

1/2 of the back wall is down to the studs & of course I'm going to have to mess with the window...

This is a perfect example of why I always advise everybody to just go ahead and go down to the studs since you have no idea what the previous,,,,,ahem....installer had done.
The first tile I popped of pulled everything behind it off also.
I was struck by the fact that the old drywall didn't seem to have any core to it.
Once I made it up a few courses to where the wall was dry, I found out what was what.

Seems the previous owner used Homasote on the back wall as the backer for the ceramic tile.
I have no idea if this was his idea or if this was something that was done at one time.


Ugly only begins to describe the mess.

Joel Goodman
08-09-2012, 6:21 PM
Homasote backer for tile -- that's one for record books!

Mike Cutler
08-09-2012, 9:36 PM
Rich

If you don't have any stud rot, you are a very lucky guy!
I, unfortunately, was not so lucky with our last bathroom project.

Homasote!!! ughhh.....

Rich Engelhardt
08-10-2012, 7:24 AM
The good news is - the studs appear to be fine. Some minor mold, but, otherwise in good shape.

I did some looking around & it appears Homasote actually can be used as a backer for ceramic tile - whould-a-thunk?
All these years I just assumed the stuff was some sort of paper product..
One thing for certain though - what's still left of it is coming out and new Homasote won't be going back in.

The bad news is - now I'm afraid I won't be able to stop with just the area around the tub.
More than not wanting to mess with the window, I really hadn't figured on gutting more than just the area around the tub.
I guess I should just suck it up and do the other walls too.


LOL! Wheeee the "super budget ranger" rides again! Time to sharpen the old pencil and see how low I can get the cost down to.
I really hate to admit it - - but - as much of a PITA as it is,,,I love doing this stuff.

Rich Engelhardt
08-11-2012, 10:30 AM
Ooogly is the best way to describe this mess...

I've got all the tile down - a day and a half ahead of schedule. I'd planned for a Monday (8/13) start but gor a day and a half jump on the tile removal part.
I'll start the wall tear out Sunday morning for a couple/few hours, then dig into it with earnest on Monday.
The biggest surprise I ran into with the areas down to the studs is how little mold there is. I fully expected a whole lot more. The picture makes it look like it's really bad, but, in real life there's very little.

Jay Jolliffe
08-11-2012, 1:37 PM
Ditra is for the floor. Kerdi is for the walls. I know there is a membrane coating that you can brush on to keep the water out. You have been given a lot of right info to use. I've used dens-sheild in the shower & it worked fine. You still have to tape the seams. It comes in 4x8' sheet instead of 3x5' dura-rock....http://www.gp.com/build/densshield-tilebacker-board.

Greg Portland
08-13-2012, 4:57 PM
Why is the window such a big deal? It just means there's less tile you have to install on that wall.

Anyway...I do lots of tile work and the simplest way to go is to install moisture resistant drywall over the studs and cover it with Schluter-Ditra or some other waterproofing membrane.
If this is a small area I'd just splurge for concrete (Durock) board all the way up + Kerdi. Add spray foam insulation (not gap filler, the DIY 5 gal. cans of spray insulation) if you want to really seal things up.