Question about Powermatic 66 in small shop

[Scott Davis]

I am a new woodworker who has been learning on hand me downs. I love it, but with 1 and 3 year olds, I only get about 2 or 3 hours on Sat and Sun to work. I do get to read about it a lot.

I had Craftsman table saw burn up and need a new one. My Dad has a Powermatic 66 that is circa 1980's (it is green), that he got as a gift several years ago when a buddy passed away. He did some work to clean it up (sanded some rust, waxed, etc), but fell out of habit of using it. He also has a floor standing Powermatic drill press and band saw. Since burning up my small saw I don't have any of these tools. I am not sure exactly what shape they are all in, the saw has had a solid door on it and served as a workbench for the last 5 years! He offered to let me have the tools, but I have to get them from Florida to Georgia, which will cost about 600$. These were originally state of art tools obviously.

I work in the 3rd bay of a 3 car garage, not much set up yet. I spend the first 30 minutes every Sat putting away the 75 plastic kid items that get scattered in my area during the week! I don't have dust collection, so far I have mostly kept my miter saw, table saw, and hand tools near the front of garage, and pull them out to use them to minimize dust. This has worked well and kept the garage cleaner.

So my questions:
1) I need to look at the tools (or have my Dad do it), but I don't have any experience refurbishing things like this. Can anyone describe what I should expect on getting it here? I know it is huge so will have to find people to help me get it in there. I don't know what I would need to do to make sure they are ready to go (repairing rust if present, change belts, bearings, etc.). Googling has not helped me to learn what would need to be done to start using them (maintenance, how to adjust to square, etc).
2) Size- Is this way to big for my space? I won't be able to move it in and out like I did the smaller saw. I thought I could put it near the garage door where stock would come in, and then would need a dust collection solution. I can't envision if this saw is that much bigger than others by reading sizes.
3) Electrical, I did get a 220V installed so have that.


I hope I gave a feel for what I do. I have limited time and not sure I would love a huge refurb job, on the other hand, this is a beauty of a saw if I can get it working properly. Maybe one I could have a long time. I don't know if it wouldn't serve a higher volume user better than me. I am also not sure that I would never move in future and this would move to top of list of things that are impossible to move with. The price is right though!

Thanks for any insight from more experienced users, like any plan, the most important part is the start.

Scott

[John Cooper2]

your not on the road yet?

With the machines on mobile bases they don't take up as much room. You may have to get rid of the door that is on the table saw.
All of them are good solid iron and most anything can be fixed on those.
Two people could load those, three or four would be better.

Sounds like all are "usable" now, so you could clean them up as you have time.

[Bruce Darrow]

Scott,

Older PM is solid gold in my opinion. If this (or these!) machine(s) are free, you can't go wrong, even if you turn around (in a politically adept time frame) and sell them in order to afford what better works in your space. Or, even better, appropriate some more of that garage!

Seriously, I love my 66, hate my Delta drill press, and wish I had a line on an older PM, and while I like my Griz band saw, I probably never would have sprung for it had I found a decent PM. It was great stuff, and still is good......but sadly, no longer great.

Go for it.

Bruce

[CPeter James]

Check out the owwm web site. They are really into thase machines and give you all the help you might need to get them going again. Any one of them is worth the trip and three makes it a no brainer.

www.owwm.org

[Andrew Howe]

Like the second poster said, are you on your wY yet?
I have a small section of our basement for woodworking about thesame as your setup .
I bought my jet proshop new and just added a 16" extension on it in center of shop. The outer edges contain big work bench, drillpress, dust collector, router table, toobox.and.recently an inca jointer 10"planer that I did a lignt refurb on it. I also have an on 10" delta.band saw..and one sanding station on wheels.
I sketched out the first placement scenario on paper annd now.1 yr later I.am going.to.do.some.revi
sions on spa,e placement of cabinets.i.want to make. Good.luck, I.found many ideas.here

[Bill Rogers]

I have the same saw (green Powermatic 66) and I love it. I use it in the equivalent of a single bay of a two car garage and I only have one 220 outlet. All of my machines are on mobile bases so that I can move them to the outlet as needed. A while back I bought 7 large pieces of wood working equipment off of Craigslist. One of the smartest things that I did was rent a small enclosed truck with a lift gate. It only cost me a little over $100 plus the gas that I used and it sure saved a lot of work! You might want to look into renting a truck with a lift gate if you are not driving too far.

[John McClanahan]

I replaced my Craftsman saw with an old yellow PM66. Best shop upgrade so far.

John

[Jim Andrew]

Do you have a pickup truck and a trailer? Personally, think I would use a tilt bed trailer like guys haul riding lawn mowers, and go get the equipment. They don't weigh more than a couple commercial riding mowers.

[Kevin Presutti]

What a deal all PM in one spot for gas money................. I'm on the road. You will find many pictures and much help here and at vintagemachinery.org on fixing whatever needs fixing. For what you're getting it will be well worth learning about fixing what needs fixing and maintaining your new found treasure. Tell us about the trip when you get back and as usual pics required.

[Cary Falk]

Cabinet saws are smaller than you might think. I don't think it is too big for your space. Put everything on wheels. I have 1 bay of a 3 car garage.
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q297/caryincamas/DSC_0282.jpg

[Mark Ashmeade]

I just sold a 66, it really isn't all that big. The table is actually quite narrow in comparison with others. The rails are the most obtrusive. You could always get shorter rails if they don't work for you, or (sacrilege), cut them down. As has been said, a mobile base will help immensely.

As a bonus, you get family time with your Dad, and he'll get a kick out of passing them down to his boy. $600 well spent in my view.

[David Kumm]

Don't be afraid of the size. It is a fairly compact saw. My first saw was a used Rockwell 12 which is larger. At the time it seems huge and now seems average. You will never regret a good saw and the older PM are the most sought after of the "small" cabinet saws. Dave

[Carl Beckett]

I will add one caveat:

If its a long 50" plus fence - downgrade it!

I was in a shared garage space for years, and dont believe a tablesaw takes up too much room. Turns out I use the tablesaw top for more than just sawing wood (assemble on it, pile stuff on it, etc etc). And I dont believe it necessarily needs to be on wheels but its nice if it is.

I have a 26" fence on my cabinet saw and feel its fine. Not 'ideal' - but I dont have the space for 'ideal', so given my environment its what works. I even had the option of picking up a larger fence for free and passed on it.

Yes the equipment is worth getting.

[Gordon Eyre]

It is all how you lay things out. I have a pretty complete shop in one bay of a three car garage and you can see this in pictures in my profile page. My shop includes a PM 66, jointer, router table, drill press, work bench, planer, jig saw, SCMS and cyclone dust collector. The only tool I have to move is my planer. You can see pictures of my shop layout in my profile page.

[Carl Beckett]

A nice layout Gordon. But definitely a wider bay than what I have experienced (and deeper too!). Any idea of the dimensions from front/back side/side?

Its good to note that if there is an option of pulling a car out to do the work then this makes available space (such as the tablesaw outfeed). And then.... .over time.... I just started leaving 'my' vehicle out in the weather all the time.

[Jeff Duncan]

Size is a funny thing, those machines seem huge to you now, but once you get them and use them...not so much:) When I first started out I too though the 10" cabinet saw was a huge tool, now it's the cute little saw I use for dado's;) Point being that you get used to the size pretty quickly. If you have space to store it you can easily put a cabinet saw on a mobile base making it easier for a cramped shop.

These are machines you can use for the rest of your life. I highly recommend the guys over at OWWM as the best consolidated source for restoration and/or repair of older equipment. They can help you through anything those tools may need. As the others said....hope your on your way!

good luck,
JeffD

[Steve Peterson]

Scott, those tools are definately worth the trip to go get them. :)

I have a PM66 plus a 4' by 7' outfeed table, 6" jointer, 13" lunchbox planer, 18" bandsaw, drill press, miter saw, RAS, router table, lathe, and a dust collector in one stall of a 3 car garage. I built a wall to separate the space and only need to occationally move the jointer to gain some open floor space.

I placed the table saw about 3' in front of the roll up door. I have to lift the door to rip anything longer than 4.5' long. This is not too bad of an inconvenience. The nice thing is that nobody can sneak up behind me when I am using the table saw (unless I am ripping long boards).

My saw has long rails so I put the right side against the wall. Most of the right side table ends up being used to stack things, rather than cutting wide stock. I would have been OK with the short rails, but I did not want to cut them. There was a small problem with the rail sticking out about 4" on the left side where I would always bump into it when walking around the saw. I drilled new holes so I could shift the rail 4" to the right. There was just enough room to relocate the sensor above the ruler. I lose 4" of cutting width on the left side of the blade.

Steve

[Gordon Eyre]

A nice layout Gordon. But definitely a wider bay than what I have experienced (and deeper too!). Any idea of the dimensions from front/back side/side?

Its good to note that if there is an option of pulling a car out to do the work then this makes available space (such as the tablesaw outfeed). And then.... .over time.... I just started leaving 'my' vehicle out in the weather all the time.
Front to back is 21 ft. And side to side is 15 ft. I cheat a little on my wives space with the hangover of my dust collector and my SCMS. I do not have to have my own car in the garage as I have a carport on the side of the garage. By placing the PM 66 at the opening of the garage I am not limited as to the length of the boards I can cut. I also can go out the side door of the garage to the carport and use that area for painting, etc.

[Barry Mabery]

As most others have said, you need to take advantage of the opportunity and relocate the PM66 to your garage/shop, Hard to believe, but I actually gained space replacing my Rockwell/Delta 10" Contractor Saw with a Unisaw. The motor is inside the cabinet, rather than hanging 15" off the back. If the fence is too long, cut it down, pick up a Bies or clone off CL or elsewhere, or build your own. The PM66 is a great saw and it will change what you do and how you do your woodworking.

[Scott Davis]

Wow! I had to travel on short notice for a funeral after posting, and just checked here now using my phone. Many thanks for the info! I can't wait to get home to the computer to go through the info everyone has suggested. My dad would be really thrilled for me to get these tools. We use to build furniture in the garage and listen to the football games on radio. I guess that is what go me interested. If the saw wont work I guess I can work on it an drill holes in stuff with the drill press! good times

Really happy to find these forums too. This response is great and I suspect I can learn a lot here.

Scott

[Aaron Berk]

Wow! I had to travel on short notice for a funeral after posting, and just checked here now using my phone. Many thanks for the info! I can't wait to get home to the computer to go through the info everyone has suggested. My dad would be really thrilled for me to get these tools. We use to build furniture in the garage and listen to the football games on radio. I guess that is what go me interested. If the saw wont work I guess I can work on it an drill holes in stuff with the drill press! good times

Really happy to find these forums too. This response is great and I suspect I can learn a lot here.

Scott

I'm in Savannah with an F250 long bed, a strong back, and some time to kill.

But you gotta find a baby sitter for my kids :p

[John R Hoppe]

You have a great deal going there my friend!

I recently picked up a used 1979 PM 66 saw and rebuilt it. Fortunately, they are mechanically very simple and easy to work on. Be sure to clean the gear racks and pull the adjustment shafts to clean the wedged key groove on the lock mechanisms. I did do a couple of mods while the saw was apart, most notably moving the dust port to the side of the cabinet and fabbing a pan on the inside to slide the dust toward the port. Also added is a folding out feed table that hangs flush with the back of the saw.

I have the 50” fence setup and was able to keep that and still fit the saw into my shop. With less space you can use a shorter fence to save some room. The mobile base is also essential to be able to store the saw out of the way when not in use.

Here is the saw as stored this morning:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v618/hydro1/PMstored800.jpg

Here is the saw out and set up (right after it was finished):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v618/hydro1/PMsaw800.jpg

[Scott Davis]

Just wanted to post an update. I finally got it all tuned up, straightened out, cleaned up, rust off, and new Incra Miter gauge and WW II blade!
Got to use it yesterday, and it is quite a machine! What an improvement from my little old Crafstman table. Many thanks to contributors who helped me get this up and running. Now I have to do the same thing to the band saw, hopefully it won't take as long!
Scott

253496

[Jim Foster]

Awesome unit. Looks just like my saw, circa 1994 Two problems with this saw. 1) No riving knife. 2) Dust collection. The saw shark offers a good middle of the road solution. It's a splitter or set of splitters with a built in dust collection port. The 4" port on the bottom backside is pretty useless without some internal baffling. Show us a pic of the Bandsaw!

[Scott Davis]

Yes, the DC is what set me back so much. I had to hire some guys to come help me lift this thing into the base so it can roll around. Then I got my first dust collector. I put that together and went to hook it up, AND noticed that there is no bottom on this saw. Unfortunately those 3 guys were not standing around anymore. I built a frame of 2x4's around the saw, and then borrowed 2 car jacks from my neighbor. I used a total of 4 to lift the saw up in the air to get a sheet of plywood under the bottom. I also bought some sound baffle foam from Amazon and plugged all the holes between the cabinet and the top. And the white squares you see are magnetic sheets to cover the holes where the blade tilt lift go. Now I have the DC hooked up and you can feel the air pulling by the blade. It worked pretty well!

I have the Shark on order! Great minds I guess (stretch for me :>)

The bandsaw is a rusted mess, but I think I have learned the ways to deal with that. I don't have a pic yet, maybe when I get it finally done.

[tim vadas]

With regards to refurbishing, you'll probably just need to clean them up a bit, e.g. clean built up resin off the internal parts, primarily the rack and pinion parts that need to move readily, and clean up the cast iron tables. You may not even need to replace bearings. It all depends on what condition your father stored them in. You might need new tires on the bandsaw wheels, and maybe belts on all machines if they're cracking, but those are inexpensive.

I replaced a delta contractor's saw with the PM66, and it's actually got a smaller footprint than the contractors saw. I did get the 50" rails, so it is wide, but i have it on a mobile base. I did as others mention and keep it closer to the garage door and against the wall, so if i'm cutting long pieces, i can just open the garage door as necessary.

My shop is an enclosed 1 stall of a two car garage. The finished space is about 11.5'x24'. I've got a PM66, 14" bandsaw, dust collector, 15" drill press, 8" jointer, 15" planer, and router table all in there and i've got enough room to work. Everything is on a mobile base, but for the most part stays put (besides the planer). I keep the power tools towards the garage door and that leaves a good amount of space in the rear for my workbench and hand tool work. The only trouble i have is if i'm building a very large piece of casework, e.g. right now i'm working on a nearly 6' long sideboard that when assembled takes up the bulk of my open space. It's still manageable, but sometimes a little clumsy to work around. But since everything is on a mobile base, i could push it all to one end of the garage if needed.

The three machines are definitely worth the $600 to move them, and if it turns out you can't manage to refurbish them, you'll make the money back selling them.

[Curt Harms]

I will add one caveat:

If its a long 50" plus fence - downgrade it!

I was in a shared garage space for years, and dont believe a tablesaw takes up too much room. Turns out I use the tablesaw top for more than just sawing wood (assemble on it, pile stuff on it, etc etc). And I dont believe it necessarily needs to be on wheels but its nice if it is.

I have a 26" fence on my cabinet saw and feel its fine. Not 'ideal' - but I dont have the space for 'ideal', so given my environment its what works. I even had the option of picking up a larger fence for free and passed on it.

Yes the equipment is worth getting.

I agree. You don't NEED a 50"+ fence. I have about 27" to the right of the blade. For sheet goods I see little reason to manhandle full 4 X 8 sheets. Cut 'em to size or a little oversized with a circle saw, good blade and use a 'saw board'. Trim on the table saw if desired. I find it WAY easier to pull sheets off the truck onto a table or saw horses and cut right away. Much easier to handle and store.