Looking to buy first shaper

[guy knight]

i am thinking of getting a shaper for my one man cabinet shop i want to be able to use a feeder and run large panel bits not looking for the top of the line but not the bottom either having never used a shaper i am sorta clueless any recommendations would be grateful

[Erik Loza]

Guy, what's your budget and will this be single-phase or three-phase?

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Stephen Cherry]

There are tons of options. The scmi t130 are out there, and available for good prices. I have a t110, which is also a nice shaper, but not as robust as a t130.

I would recommend used- there are lots of theses machines available.

[guy knight]

Guy, what's your budget and will this be single-phase or three-phase?

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

2-4k and i can only use single phase

[Stephen Cherry]

i can only use single phase

Rotary phase converter. Single phase will cramp your style in the used market. Craigslist, auctionzip, etc. Its all out there within your budget. For turning a big cutter, you would want 5+ hp, with a 4 wheel feeder. I would be looking at 500 for a phase converter, 500 for a feeder, and either 1000 for a t110, or 2000-3000 for a t130.

If you are willing to scrounge, it can all be had cheaper. Another option would be one big shaper for panels, and 2 small for rails and stiles. Delta hd shapers are out there and cheap.

[Peter Quinn]

5 hp is your minimum size if this is a commercial shop. You can raise panels with 3HP, but better off with 1 1/4" spindle on a 5HP+ machine. If you start making small custom molding runs of any size, crowns, etc, the bigger shaper is really a necessity. The used market varies by region, prices have risen over the last several years verus the pit of 4 years ago, but there is still good value in the used market, though it is mostly in 3 phase industrial. Keep in mind the tooling can cost more than the machine, so keep some for that. Euro machines in that price range would be basic and used. I've got a used minimax I like a lot, just picked up a 6.5 HP used Italian production shaper, older unit with a feeder for $2k., and thats a battle ship. I'd steer away from the powermatic 27's personally, I use them at work, not my favorite tool for a lot of reasons, but they are effective for the right price. I just never see them at a price I'd consider fair around here.
The PM2700 comes in just under your price range, those get good reviews and look pretty good in person. The fence is important for efficient set ups, but for every crappy fence there are 3 work arounds. I can't really explain all the features I like in a good fence if you have no reference point, but dual micro adjustable fence with flat/square plates is sort of a minimum. You can make a panel hood very easily for any shaper thats as good as anything you'll buy, so not much issue there.

Do some looking, do some research, check out the powermatic site for the PM2700, check out the feller site, they both have pretty good pictorial reviews of what makes a good shaper fence. Check these out even if you have no interest in these machines. Good starting point.

[David Kumm]

A RPC is a one time expense but one that pays off forever. If you can figure out the wiring it is the way to go. A nice Felder, MM, or similar sliding table shaper is a good way to go. Costs more but gives you more flexibility if you are going to be doing larger pattern cope and stick. If you go with a solid table, just check runout and listen to the bearings. Shaper bearings aren't cheap to replace. If you buy used plan on $500+ more to replace little things you didn't realize were missing or problems. A good $7-10K new shaper will sell for $3-5K used and be way better than a 3K new. If a decent 3 hp for less than $1000 comes along, buy it and learn what you like, dislike, and really need. Just get 1.25" cutters that you can use when you upgrade. It might be the best $1000 learning experience you can get. Dave

[Michael W. Clark]

Guy,
I'm not able to add much but would like to say there are several on here that have extensive knowledge about shapers and will give you good advice. I am in the beginning stages of looking for one for hobby use with occasional side jobs for friends and family. I started out thinking about 2-3HP. After doing some research and reading on here, now I am looking for a minimum of 3HP with a preference of 5HP. I just finished reading the Shaper Handbook and it gives you a good basic understanding of the shaper and some of its capabilities. If I were you and doing this for a living, I would look at 5HP as a minimum like Peter said. Based on the prices I've seen on CL and some of the auction sites, your budget is in-line with some of the 5HP+ machines with powerfeeder. I'm not sure how far your budget will go for a new purchase.

If all you do is cabinets, I would start with the larger shaper and may consider adding a couple of smaller HP shapers later. The smaller ones could run rails and stiles, and the larger one for raised panels.

Mike

[larry senen]

shapers have their place but what you're trying to do can be done on an open sided moulder,unless they're cathedral raised doors.a moulder is safer and in my experience will give a better result . the combo of shaper and feeder will most likely cost more than a moulder and the knives should certainly cost less than 3 wing cutters.
btw i have had a shaper in my shop for over 30 years and i find less and less use for it.

[Erik Loza]

2-4k and i can only use single phase

Got it.

I agree with the gentleman who said that you want a minimum 5hp or so. To my mind, there is not a lot of point in paying/creating space for a shaper unless it will handle professional-level tooling (>1.0" bore). Whether that is a new or used shaper and three-phase or single-phase, is of course totally your choice. You can never have too big of a shaper.

Good luck

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[James Heisbert]

What is the difference between a single-phase and a three-phase shaper?

[Stephen Cherry]

What is the difference between a single-phase and a three-phase shaper?

a single phase shaper uses single phase power (two legs separated by 180 degrees), while a three phase shaper uses three phase power (three legs separated by 120 degrees). Three phase is better for motors because it is self starting, and requires lower current for a given hp. single phase motors require a start capacitor.

In industrial settings 3 phase power is the norm.

[Jeff Duncan]

James, the main difference for purposes of this thread is in availability;) There's a wide variety of industrial machinery out there for short money....though almost all of it will be 3 phase! Three phase is also a simpler and more reliable motor....but that's almost a side benefit in this situation. Single phase is very rare in industrial grade equipment.

Guy, the others have given you some great advice. I agree that Powermatic 27's are OK machines that some guys manage to get a lot of use out of even in professional shops. There are plenty of options in this range of machinery. If your doing this for a living and don't want to go through the learning curve of upgrading over the years that I and many others have done, you can find used top notch machines often with feeders included in your price range. Just as a starting place let's look at older shapers, say pre-90's, that would likely fit your budget....from the top of the line down;)

Martin is probably the best shaper you can find available in this country. They aren't common, but I do see them come up in my area from time to time, (and usually try to buy them when they do:D). Prices vary a lot as they're not common, but for a basic one you may be able to grab one in your budget. I'd put SCM T-130's next, they are also up there with the Martin prices....you can probably find one of these fairly easy and most likely in your budget. Now the field starts to open, SCM T-110's are real common in my area and can be had w/ a feeder in the $2500 neighborhood. Then there are a range of older Italian shapers that turn up from time to time many of good quality. Also the big Delta's, (made by SCM for a while then Invicta), and Powermatics, (made by SAC). Another step down the ladder and you'll get into names like Felder, and Mini-Max, good quality machines geared more towards small shops than production. I've seen guys practically give away Mini-Max shapers, not sure why they don't hold value as they seem like nice machines? Now on the other side of things you have older American shapers which often go for even less! Though I personally feel European shapers are a bit more flexible for the modern shop.

So now for the things to look for. I'd start with the most important thing which is making sure the spindle is in good shape, straight, and true. Got to bring a dial indicator w/ magnetic base to check things out. You'll also want to run it if at all possible to make sure there's no major bearing problems, (minor one's can be hard to detect). Spindle bearings for this class of machine can set you back close to a grand! Spindles are also up there, a 1-1/4" for my machine goes for over $800! Motor bearings I don't worry about as they are inexpensive and easy to replace on 3 phase motors. Oh and I'd also look for a split fence with independantly adjustable fences. Not a necessity...but really great feature to have!!!

anyway that's all I can think of for now....happy hunting!!!
JeffD

[Jeff Monson]

Guy, I'd highly recemmond a PM2700 powermatic for a shaper in your budget. That was my 1st shaper and I loved owning it. The quality of the machine is really nice, I liked the large table, and I thought the fence was also a joy to setup. The top is drilled for a feeder also. I'd go with Peters recemmondation on getting a 5hp machine also.

If you do a search you can find a nice video review on the PM2700, I believe Tom Walz did it.

[Erik Christensen]

What jeff said about PM2700. I did a ton of research for my first shaper & I agree with many that a power feeder is a necessity. For me that meant at least 3 HP as smaller units seemed way too top heavy with a decent feeder installed. I looked at used but did not find anything that met my needs - I did limit myself to single phase as i did not want to deal with either de-rating the motor due to a static converter nor spend the big $$ for a rotary converter. I am a hobbyist and a commercial shop might look at 3 phase conversion as a good investment.

What I like about my PM2700 after 2 years of use:
3/4" and 1 1/4" spindles come stock
digital spindle height readout very precise
great fence & large table
drilled for power feeder both left & right
excellent dust collection
1/4" & 1/2" router collets let me use less expensive tooling for smaller tasks
built in mobility casters
speed changes quick and easy

What I don't like about shapers is the tooling cost and setup time but nothing beats a power feeder & climb cut for doing a ton of flawless work in a remarkably short time.

[Mark Ashmeade]

Have a look in the classifieds. I have a 7.5HP Moak I'm looking to move on. Even adding an RPC and some tooling, you'd be well under 2K.

[James Heisbert]

Thanks for the info guys! This is a great site!

[guy knight]

good info and gives me a good direction to go now thanks alot