While we are talking widebelts

[David Kumm]

As long as we are talking wide belts on another thread, I 'm interested in advice for the future. I've finally wired my storage building with a 20 hp Phase Perfect so I have approx 60 three phase amps available with a 200 amp main 240 service. The DC can operate off a vfd so all 60 amps are available for a wide belt. I'm a high end hobby guy looking to replace the 37x2 Performax. I generally buy used and have plenty of time to look so I'm looking for advice as to recommendations. One vs two head, one vs two motors, etc. Just keep in mind the amp limitation or explain what is really needed. I won't use it much but always like great machines and am interested in the real deal and not what I can get by with. Dave

[Jeff Duncan]

David, you really need to decide what your going to be running. I've run several widebelts, from the one I own now...a basic single head, to a new 51" with segmented platen and all the bells and whistles. But they aren't necessarily interchangeable. For instance for mostly solid wood you could probably get by with a single head and no platen. Of course the platen is nice to have if you can get one with it;) If your running a lot of stock and time is important adding a second head can cut down on your sanding time. Generally speaking widebelts are not great for veneer work until you get into the higher end of things. If your careful a platen will allow you to do some stuff though. Everything comes with a price though so at some point you have to see what's going to be available within your budget. If buying used than you have a little more wiggle room on the wish list!

I know if I were buying new for my shop I'd look for either a 37" or 43" machine with 2 heads. A steel 1st head for flattening stock followed by a 2nd head with a platen. I don't have any experience with lower hp machines, but I think I could get by with say 30 hp total? I'd have to pic some other brains before I made that decision though;)

if I remember right your not too far from me. Feel free to PM me if you have any desire to take a test drive of my machine. Like I said, it's a simple machine single head, no platen, but even at 35 years old it still leaves a decent finish:)

JeffD

[David Kumm]

Jeff, when I do veneer work it is bandsawn so really like solid wood. For the amount I do the Performax with 80-120 and finishing up with Dynabrade works fine. I just know that before I'm too old to do it I'll try a widebelt. With my ITCH and Byrd planers i find I don't use the sander as much anymore and my shapers are pretty precise but I appreciate precision machines and the Performax- while serving my needs isn't nearly as precision as most of my other stuff.

In rereading my post I didn't mean to imply my work is high end- only my equipment. Dave

[Rick Fisher]

Hey David ..

I have a 20hp Phase perfect and a small wide belt .. I can tell we have similar tastes..

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/SCM%20Sander/P1150298.jpg

This little gaffer is my wide belt .. its a 25" wide SCM .. I think its a 2001 or 2002 .. Its got a 12hp motor with a 1hp motor for the conveyor..
http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/SCM%20Sander/P1150286.jpg

FLA is 30.4 amps .. Right now my Phase Perfect is fed from a 100 amp breaker.. meaning I could handle about 50-53 amps..

Idling, it draws about 1/3 of that .. maybe 10.5 amps.. I do a lot of sofa tables and counter tops.. Sanding a 19" wide teak panel recently I noticed it drawing about 19-20 amps.. I always run 150 grit belts.. The belts come in boxes of 6-8 minimum.. having an inventory of grits is not reasonable .. I have run 180 and 120 .. 150 seemed a great balance for me ..

SCM has a 37" sander called the Sandya 1 which is a single head with an 18hp motor .. I actually don't know of much in the high end market which could be bought used, with a motor we could run ..

A double head sander is pretty rare under 20 hp .. I have not seen a Euro sander which would qualify .. You could probably talk SCM or someone into making one, but it eliminates the used market, and probably resale value ..

So, we are probably always gonna have to suffer with a single head machine .. :(

Having said that .. if you had 2 heads.. you would probably run 120 x 150 or 100 x 150 .. Then your talking an inventory of 15-18 belts .. I fear they would fall apart from age unless you burned them up on purpose.. I have a friend in town with a 25x60 Cantek and we split boxes... A belt lasts a long time .. Nothing like a drum sander ..

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/SCM%20Sander/P1150290.jpg

Mine was pretty clean when I bought it .. its was at a university, they bought it to use up budget money but already had a 37" .. Gov money being used wisely.. :)

The platen is a must for wood .. I had a General international that didn't have a platen and it left marks.. Mine is a strip of graphite..

The conveyor on mine has gone kinda hard .. its 11 years old and if I don't use it for a month, it goes rigid and allows boards to slip .. I actually turned it on and hit it with an 80 grit ROS .. roughed up the surface and it works great again ..


David.. I think you will agree with me after doing some looking that a 20hp PP is awesome for table saws, planers, jointer's .. but once you start looking at Wide Belts, its entry level only ..

Having said that .. its an amazing machine .. When I do sofa tables, I resaw a 2x10 for the top, go from the bandsaw right to the sander.. 4-5 passes and its smooth .. The planer gets much less use due to this machine .. with an 80 grit belt and the platen up .. it will hog material off at an impressive rate .. ( came with an 80 installed ) ..

The table tops are basically sanded to 150 and dead flat.. A minute or two with an ROS and the top is ready to finish.. 10 sf of table top, sanded ready to finish in about 4-5 minutes..

My dream machine would be a 43" Kundig Duplex but they usually have 40hp under the shell.. A used SCM Sandya 1 with an 18hp would probably be the absolute top for my purpose..

[Jim Andrew]

Having a small open end widebelt, have trouble imagining why you guys are not looking at the small Grizzly 9983? Mine is just fantastic, the belts are inexpensive, and has plenty of power at 5 hp. Yes you have to turn the panel around and run it through again, but this sander so beats a drum sander. And you don't need 3 phase.

[David Kumm]

Good info guys. I wish you could series the PP like a RPC. I've got a 10 and a 20 in the shop. I suppose hoping for two motors on a two head is fantasy. I think a 20 hp PP would run two SCMI 18 hp motors. Another option is waiting for a 30 hp PP and selling the other two. The smaller ones come up more often and are likely easier to sell. Really depends on what machine comes up within driving distance. With no hurry I will be selective. Researching always takes time as I'm a slow learner. Dave