Yet another router lift package recommendation thread

[Prashun Patel]

I've read all the threads here and am still a little confused...
I'm evaluating router lift / table packages.

There are 4 'higher level' ones I'm evaluating:

Benchdog
Woodpecker
Jessem
Incra

My research shows each one of these has avid fans. Does anyone know any discernible diffs between any of these that makes one superior?

Second, I'm considering going budget with the Rockler FX lift. I don't currently use my table all that often, so I don't need a lot of bells and whistles. I really just want ease of bit changes/adjustment, and accuracy. What will I miss if I go with the FX?

Any help appreciated.

[Carl Beckett]

I have a Benchdog.

One of the primary criteria I used was that the router was very well supported and guided - to minimize vibration. I think all on your list do well at this.

On the Benchdog, the insert around the bit is changed via two flat head allen screws. They are relatively small allen heads. Then if you want a zero clearance insert, you add another plastic piece that screws in from the bottom of the primary insert. Again with screws. I dont think this is the most convenient.

Given you want ease of use as a primary goal, you might consider some of the cam lock or spanner wrench type insert designs. And also pay close attention to the feature that raises/lowers, and how the speed wrench sits into the mechanism - especially if full of sawdust - you dont want this feature buggering up over time and rounding off the corners of the nut/screw/whatever it is. The benchdog has a nut/socket type drive - this seems pretty robust (but yes, I still have to clean it out to seat properly).

I dont have direct 1:1 comparison with the others, so look forward to hearing those experiences.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I own a Jessem Rout-R-Lift II. It works very well. I can raise and lower very quickly and have not had difficulty pulling the router out and putting it back. On initial receipt, the router did not fit so I contacted technical support. They said something like "sounds like it was knocked out of alignment..... Loosen <something or other>..... blah blah blah". Two minutes later it was in. Point is they had fast responsive support. I have not had good luck with the lock..... More specifically, it is a bit difficult to use for me so I just don't use it. Never bothered looking into it. I set the height so that I can trivially change bits above the table. Works well. Micro adjustments are very easy since the part that I rotate is marked in 64ths if I remember correctly, so I know exactly how much I am changing the height. I never verified that it is accurate.

http://www.jessemdirect.com/Rout_R_Lift_II_p/rout-r-lift%20ii.htm?1=1&CartID=0

So, what don't I like about this lift (other than the lock)? The price of the inserts. $35 for four rings, so I have $70 tied up in rings.

http://www.jessemdirect.com/product_p/02021.htm (with holes)
http://www.jessemdirect.com/product_p/02028.htm (cut your own holes)

I have never tried Woodpeckers lift, but, for $40 you get 8 rings

http://www.woodpeck.com/twistlockringset.html

I used to have a plate, and the plate came with some rings..... No extra charge. The lift includes 3 plates. The jessem came with 1 ring.

What else do I find appealing about the Woodpeckers? It does look like it matches most of the features as the Jessem, but it costs much more. SO why might I buy it anyway?

First, it looks like you can buy "motor pads" so you have more ability to change out the router with a new different type without buying a new lift.

http://www.woodpeck.com/prlv2.html

I like the idea of a micro adjust without using a tool. I like the machine engraved fence scale.

I am very curious about the spring assisted lift lever....

Off hand, I am guessing that the ring removal lever is more comfortable on the Jessem, but it is not likely to matter much. It looks like there is a height change indicator on the Woodpecker as well so you will know exactly how much things went up or down, but I have not seen one in person to know for sure.

[Steven Hsieh]

Does anyone here own the Mast-R-Lift II?
http://www.jessemdirect.com/Mast_R_Lift_II_p/mast-r-lift%20ii.htm

Thanks

[Jeff Monson]

Bench dog for me, I mainly chose it to go with the cast iron top. I've had a couple tops that have sagged in the middle so I figured cast would be the best option. I do like the lift, it would be nice to change the height of the cutter without a wrench though. Cutter changes are really nice and easy above the table. The pc 7518 router fits great into the lift, adaptors are needed for different models I believe.

[mreza Salav]

If you haven't built a router table top, you'll discover that getting a large and "flat" table top isn't very easy.
I have a PRL with a Milwaukee 3.5HP router and am happy with it. I think any of the ones you listed will do fine.
The advantage of Benchdog is the cast iron top they have to go with their lifts; that won't work with other lifts I think.

[richard poitras]

I would look at the INCRA-Mast-R-Lift-II.

Main Reasons:

INCRA MagnaLOCK
Magnetic insert rings.

Works out of box with 18 of the best selling routers on the market. No extra adapter collars required. So if your router goes you can use a lot of other ones in its place. Especially after you had it a few years and they don’t make the adapters or router for it anymore?

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks everyone. Andrew, I see the Mast-R-Lift from Jessem fits most router bodies out of the box. This is a big deal for me, since I'm sure I'll upgrade from my 1.75hp routers at some point.

The Woodpecker PRL seems to need motor pads to adapt to different bodies.

[daniel lane]

On the Benchdog, the insert around the bit is changed via two flat head allen screws. They are relatively small allen heads. Then if you want a zero clearance insert, you add another plastic piece that screws in from the bottom of the primary insert. Again with screws. I dont think this is the most convenient.

Carl, I too have a Bench Dog, and this doesn't sound anything like mine. Perhaps I have a newer model? On the one I have, the ring is held in by three small phillips screws, and I don't have an option for screwing plastic in from underneath for zero-clearance. In fact, I recently picked up a couple of "blank" rings from Rockler so I could make zero-clearance rings for a couple of bits. Anyway, I'm intrigued, especially if there is a different option for the ring, any chance I could talk you into sending pictures? (We can take the discussion to PM to avoid hijacking the thread.)

Prashun, as mentioned, I have the Bench Dog. I am quite happy with it, it's really stable, easy to adjust, and generally I'm just all-around happy with it. My only real complaint is that the plate levels in the table via several screws more than needed, and it's difficult to get it just right. Also, mine only came with one ring (I bought mine via the classifieds here and as such I may not have received everything - sure looked like it, though) and they aren't exactly standard sized. I bought the "large" blank ring from Rockler and it looks like it will work, although I haven't installed it yet.

I bought it when I was running my DW618 router, which promptly shredded its mag ring. I had purchased a set of adapters for the Bench Dog, but as I needed a router ASAP for a project (and didn't have time to get the Dewalt repaired), I wound up buying a PC7518 and the adapters are still sitting unopened. If you think you may go Bench Dog and the adapters would work for you, let me know!



daniel

[Brian Brightwell]

I would look at the INCRA-Mast-R-Lift-II.

Main Reasons:

INCRA MagnaLOCK
Magnetic insert rings.

Works out of box with 18 of the best selling routers on the market. No extra adapter collars required. So if your router goes you can use a lot of other ones in its place. Especially after you had it a few years and they don’t make the adapters or router for it anymore?

Well Richard, I ordered one this morning. To go into this top that I am making.

http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy11/bebrightwell/DSC_0110.jpg

[Carl Beckett]

Hi Daniel,

Yes, I can do a couple of pictures but it will take a day or two before I can get them posted. Seems relevant though - to compare that we are talking about the same model, and also show the features.

I took a look at some of the current models and see there are several screws holding down the insert. I dont think I would like that (call me lazy, but Im already whining about TWO screws - let alone 6!!). Definitely a design change from what I have.

Stay tuned.

[Bruce Page]

Prashun, I have the older Bench Dog with the metal inserts held on with two small 82° flathead Allen screws. The only other lift I have used is my Router Raizer lift, so I can’t give a comparison to the others.
The main reason I went with the BD was heft. I wanted the option to run large heavy cutters and not worry about vibration, the BD is very stout.
I added a digital readout so I have the best of both worlds – solid & precise!
I took the pic’s right after installation.

[richard poitras]

I see the Mast-R-Lift from Jessem fits most router bodies out of the box. This is a big deal for me, since I'm sure I'll upgrade from my 1.75hp routers at some point.
.

The Incra is the same lift as the Mast-R-Lift from Jessem but they have the MagnaLock insert rings system instead of the twist kind that Jessem has. The MagnaLock rings are ajustable to the top as well so you can get them flat to the top and you don't need a tool to remove them?

[Prashun Patel]

Richard, I'm leaning heavily toward the Incra. It comes with more inserts, they're magnaloc and toolless.

The only downside is that Incra doesn't offer packages like Jessem and Woodpeck do.

If i have to go a-la-cart, any recommendations on a good top and fence?

I wish the Veritas top could be fit with a lift.

[Victor Robinson]

Richard, I'm leaning heavily toward the Incra. It comes with more inserts, they're magnaloc and toolless.

The only downside is that Incra doesn't offer packages like Jessem and Woodpeck do.

If i have to go a-la-cart, any recommendations on a good top and fence?

I wish the Veritas top could be fit with a lift.

If you're going Incra, why not go all the way? The positioner is great. More than the joinery options, just the ability to return to a given fence position is fantastic.

[Carl Beckett]

Prashun, I have the older Bench Dog with the metal inserts held on with two small 82° flathead Allen screws. The only other lift I have used is my Router Raizer lift, so I can’t give a comparison to the others.
The main reason I went with the BD was heft. I wanted the option to run large heavy cutters and not worry about vibration, the BD is very stout.
I added a digital readout so I have the best of both worlds – solid & precise!
I took the pic’s right after installation.

This is exactly my setup. Two Allen screws for the primary insert. (then an optional smaller zero clearance insert that screws in from the back side using three small allen screws)

[Prashun Patel]

Victor, my concern with the positioner is that it requires an offset router top. The Incra offset table is only 24" wide. The other ones are > 30"...

How useful is the positioner? Under what circumstances do you use it?

[Victor Robinson]

Victor, my concern with the positioner is that it requires an offset router top. The Incra offset table is only 24" wide. The other ones are > 30"...

How useful is the positioner? Under what circumstances do you use it?

That's a fair point. I built my table and it's basically 24" plus 1.5" of edging on each side, so 27" wide total. If I were to build it again I'd go just a bit wider (perhaps 30-32"). I'm still trying to figure out some kind of fold-down infeed/outfeed extension for it, which would help for longer workpieces. 27" has been fine for cabinet doors though.

I use the positioner constantly. Zero the fence to the bit (easy with the microadjust) and then can set exact distances, e.g. dado from edge of board, width of raised panel cut if not to bearing, etc. Microadjust to perfect a fit. Depth of slot cutter cut. And I frequently forget to run all my similar pieces at once, so it is nice to be able to get to the same fence setup again and not worry about being slightly off (of course you're on your own for bit height).

I've done a fair amount of box joints and DTs with it - great for boxes and small drawers.

The Wonderfence can be offset for jointing...works well. It's a pretty useful system if you don't mind giving up the space and you can build or buy a suitable table. It's definitely an investment if you're doing a lift at the same time, but personally I invested in the positioner/fence first to use with my Triton and I've been happy.

[Bruce Page]

This is exactly my setup. Two Allen screws for the primary insert. (then an optional smaller zero clearance insert that screws in from the back side using three small allen screws)

Carl, I would be interested in a picture of the secondary inserts you mention – I didn’t know they even existed!
My BD came with the three primary metal ring inserts and no zero clearance inserts. One of the inserts has the 3 countersunk holes that I assume would hold the zero clearance insert.

I made three full sized zero clearance inserts out of some ½” Plexiglas machined to fit.

[Carl Beckett]

Carl, I would be interested in a picture of the secondary inserts you mention – I didn’t know they even existed!
My BD came with the three primary metal ring inserts and no zero clearance inserts. One of the inserts has the 3 countersunk holes that I assume would hold the zero clearance insert.

I made three full sized zero clearance inserts out of some ½” Plexiglas machined to fit.

Yes, is the 3 countersunk holes that hold it (and they were purchased separately at the time I got the lift). I will get some pics (again, it will take a couple days because Im away)

Prashun,

If by positioner you mean the Incra fence I absolutely love mine. I made the top so I could mount the fence on T-track either long way, or side way to the top. This allows me to keep the table sitting against a wall for relatively small pieces, but then if I want to pull it out I can move the fence to the back and run long boards through.

Also I have an extra fence of the large variety. Its really long - and I will never use it so it just sits (I think it needs to be listed for sale)

[daniel lane]

Carl/Bruce - I have a newer model that came with the plastic ring...wish I had (or could get) the metal ones. Could be the difference is the model year.


daniel

[Bill Huber]

I have the Master R Lift II, a great lift, very smooth to lower and lift the router. It does have the plastic inserts but I see no problem with them at all, they twist in and out and are flat. The lift has a very easy to use lock on top which locks the left so that any vibration will not change the height of the router.

I started out with the FX and it is also a very good lift, not as smooth as the the Master R but it is a good lift made for smaller routers. The thing is you have to get different spacers for different routers and I plan to get a larger router soon.

As has been stated the Incra is the Jessem with different inserts.

For me it is hard to beat the Master R Lift II and the Jessem table and fence. The table is flat, the fence is awesome, I guess the fence is one the the best things about the Jessem table.

The fence is mounted with rails on the edge of the table and the fence runs in large T tracks, which makes for a very easy to adjust and smooth adjusting fence.

Here is my post on the Master R when I got it. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?149596-Jessem-Master-R-lift-II-%28long%29&highlight=Jessem+lift

If you go to this gallery you can see some pictures of the Jessem table and lifts. http://www.pbase.com/wlhuber/router

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks all. Bill thanks as always for yr detailed reviews and pbase pix

[Mike Goetzke]

I have the Woodpecker's PRL-V2, side winder, full set of aluminum rings, Milwaukee 5625, Wixey DRO, and remote speed/power control and love it. Only a hobbyist would appreciate all of these features :D.

Mike

[Alan Lightstone]

I have the MLCS Cast Iron Extension Router Table, Woodpecker's PRL-V2, Porter Cable 7518, Wixey DRO, and Incra LS-Positioner.
238602
238603

This sounds similar to Mike's setup above.

I really like the dual dust collection, both through the fence and under the table.

[Bruce Page]

Alan, that is a great looking setup!

[richard poitras]

How much do those Cast Iron tops sell for? If I may ask....

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks for all the advice. I decided the Incra Mast-R-Lift II. The Incra comes with a couple more inserts than the Jessem, handles most brands of routers, has toolless insert removal, and was about $10 cheaper than the Jessem - with free shipping.

I decided on the Incra Combo 2 package (LS Positioner+fence+24/47 top+insert+stand). I like the LS positioner as a fence because of the precision depth adjustment, flip stop, and slider that allows smaller box joinery. The downside is the dust collection and the exclusion of a split face, but I can make one, and eventually upgrade to the Wonder Fence if necessary. The offset size is a drawback too: 27x47". The Incra stand comes with 1/2" slots for panels so I can make a rudimentary cabinet.

I also got a variable speed control switch.

The free shipping on all these things and a good deal on the Combo package brought the total to about what the Jessem Mast-R-Lift kit costs now (the Jessem has featherboards, a wider table, smaller footprint, and dc on the fence, but no vs on the switch, and doesn't have the adjuster/accessories of the LS fence.)

Anyway, thanks again.

[Alan Lightstone]

How much do those Cast Iron tops sell for? If I may ask....

$270 - $290, depending on which insert plate you choose. Obviously, I didn't need those as I had the lift.

[Alan Lightstone]

I like the LS positioner as a fence because of the precision depth adjustment, flip stop, and slider that allows smaller box joinery. The downside is the dust collection and the exclusion of a split face, but I can make one, and eventually upgrade to the Wonder Fence if necessary. The offset size is a drawback too: 27x47".
Yes, the offset size is a drawback, but I live with it.

Why do you think the dust collection is a disadvantage? I find it pretty good, using the through the fence dust collection as well as the router cabinet dust collection. Using both together works pretty well, IMHO.

[Prashun Patel]

I got the standard ls not the super with the wonder fence...

[Stew Hagerty]

I got the standard ls not the super with the wonder fence...
Hey Prashun, I have the LS setup. I did opt for the Super Fence and I would highly recommend it. There is so much that it is capable of, including dust collection, easy start/stop positioning, ad jointing. I fully enclosed my stand, plus I divided the enclosure into two sides, one houses the router & lift and is setup for dust collection, while the other side has shelves for bit and accessory storage. I have some photos that I will send you tomorrow morning when I'm back at my computer.

[Darcy Forman]

I have the incra positioner with master fence in 25". I custom made my router table to fit so my table is deeper than it is wide. In the table I put the Incra master lift. I love them both and couldn't see myself useing anything else. Not only can you make box joints etc the fence is very accurate and I use my every day. I like the scales that you can set to zero anywhere the fence is at so that you can return to that position at a latter time. The more I use my system the more I learn new ways to use the fence positioner. The dust collection in the fence is also a nice feature.

[richard poitras]

$270 - $290, depending on which insert plate you choose. Obviously, I didn't need those as I had the lift.

Prashum, Thanks for the PM …


Alan, Thanks for the pricing…

[Stew Hagerty]

Hey Prashun, I have the LS setup. I did opt for the Super Fence and I would highly recommend it. There is so much that it is capable of, including dust collection, easy start/stop positioning, ad jointing. I fully enclosed my stand, plus I divided the enclosure into two sides, one houses the router & lift and is setup for dust collection, while the other side has shelves for bit and accessory storage. I have some photos that I will send you tomorrow morning when I'm back at my computer.

OK Prashun, here are the photos I promised:

I have the LS17 with their big 27x43 table. The left side houses the router lift and is sealed for DC. The right side has several shelves for bits and accessories. I mounted all of the LS accessories externally, including the right angle fence and the tall fence. On the front I have my quick lift rod and wrenches, and on the left are the rings. You can also see the crank for the Sidewinder the safety switch.
238688238689

This is my DC plumbing setup. I know it isn't ideal and I'm planning on streamlining it when I get a chance. It may not be pretty, but it works just fine.
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Here you can see the rotary air inlet valve I added. I open or close it depending on whether or not I'm using the fence DC and/or how tightly the bit fits in the ring I'm using.
238691238692

Open door on the DC side of the cabinet. I sealed all of the joints with some silicone caulk then sprayed the inside using a gloss paint spray bomb I had laying around. I figured the high gloss would make for a nice smooth surface.
238694238695

A shot of my Woodpeckers Sidewinder mount.
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[Prashun Patel]

Stew-
Thanks for the pix. I will be referring back to this.

My package arrived today!!!

FWIW, the MastrLiftII is now called the Incra/Jessem MastrLiftII. This is confusing bkz I believe the "Jessem" one still contains phenolic rings.

Anyway, anyone interested, Incra is running $30 off the MastrLiftII now. You have to buy direct from their site.

[Guy Belleman]

In keeping down the cost on a table-top router table, I decided on mounting a Triton router in a Woodpecker plate. The Triton adjustment is as good and smooth as any other router lift I have seen. The Triton is smooth, quiet, powerful and does a better cutting job than the Craftsman, DeWalt, and Milwaukee routers I have, and better than the Benchdog router table with a Porter Cable router at the military base woodshop.

239183

[richard poitras]

Stew-

Anyway, anyone interested, Incra is running $30 off the MastrLiftII now. You have to buy direct from their site.

FYI if you sign up for their news letter you also get 10% off bringing the lift down to $278.10.

[Prashun Patel]

Guy, I like yr butcherblock top. I wish I had thought of that.

I have a question about yr Triton: does it allow above table bit changes?

[Jim Stewart]

I have a woodpeckers. I think it is great. Easy to adjust. Solid not vibration. I wanted to say you can buy a woodpeckers lift to fit a benchdog table. I may upgrade to a cast table one of these days although my benchdog table top is flat. I would recommend the PC motor and dedicate it to the table.

[Stew Hagerty]

By the way... If you have or are getting an Incra table and want a Woodpeckers lift, buy it from Incra. Woodpeckers and Incra have a mutual agreement back and forth, so they sell each others products. In this case, Incra replaces the standard Woodpeckers Mounting Plate with an Incra Plate that they designed specifically for the Woodpeckers Lift. The advantage is that the Incra Plate fits into the Incra table with no modification and it uses the Incra magnetic rings. Combine that with the "hand crank" and you have onehellofa lift system that works seamlessly with the spectacular Incra Table.

[Prashun Patel]

To all those with the LS Positioner, I have thoughts/nits:

1) Do you notice a little play between the carriage and the mount? Specifically, when the carriage is extended, if I push on the fence, I notice some flex between the carriage and the mount. The manual doesn't advise how to correct for that. Is it even a big deal, since force is not applied in this direction? I only think it should be corrected because everything else about it is so rock-steady. If the positioner is adjustable in an excruciatingly precise 1/1000", then the fence shouldn't flex at all.

2) Do you find the allen screw adjustments a little tedious? I got used to it on the Miter SE because they provide a nice screwdriver, but shimming that fence or adjusting the plate levelers with the L-allen is tedious.

[Carl Beckett]

Sorry to be so far off topic Prashun - given you already have your hardware. Someone was asking about zero clearance inserts on the benchdog and these are the ones I have:

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[Guy Belleman]

The Triton does rise up for above the table bit changes. The router lifts much higher than any other router I have seen. There are several sites that provide reviews that clarify that and provide pictures. I would link them, but I think the rules here might preclude that. I will try to post a picture.

If you look at the Triton router pictures on Amazon, you can see that the collet raises up about 3/4" of an inch above the base. If the router is attached to the typical 1/4" plate, the collet is at least 1/2" above the top when changing bits. I just measured mine that it is how far it comes above the table.

[Alan Lightstone]

To all those with the LS Positioner, I have thoughts/nits:

1) Do you notice a little play between the carriage and the mount? Specifically, when the carriage is extended, if I push on the fence, I notice some flex between the carriage and the mount. The manual doesn't advise how to correct for that. Is it even a big deal, since force is not applied in this direction? I only think it should be corrected because everything else about it is so rock-steady. If the positioner is adjustable in an excruciatingly precise 1/1000", then the fence shouldn't flex at all.

I never noticed it until you mentioned it. Gee, thanks, Prashun. ;)

That being said, I've never noted it being an issue.



2) Do you find the allen screw adjustments a little tedious? I got used to it on the Miter SE because they provide a nice screwdriver, but shimming that fence or adjusting the plate levelers with the L-allen is tedious.

I guess. It never really bothered me. I keep the allen wrench handy. I have a straight wrench with a nice handle on it and a ball head. I thought it came with the LS positioner. Works well and quickly.

[Carl Beckett]

I have a straight wrench with a nice handle on it and a ball head.

Works well and quickly.

On my Incra miter I have this - screwdriver type handle with a ball end allen. Works easily, so could recommend if you dont have one its worth chasing it down.

[Stew Hagerty]

To all those with the LS Positioner, I have thoughts/nits:

1) Do you notice a little play between the carriage and the mount? Specifically, when the carriage is extended, if I push on the fence, I notice some flex between the carriage and the mount. The manual doesn't advise how to correct for that. Is it even a big deal, since force is not applied in this direction? I only think it should be corrected because everything else about it is so rock-steady. If the positioner is adjustable in an excruciatingly precise 1/1000", then the fence shouldn't flex at all.

2) Do you find the allen screw adjustments a little tedious? I got used to it on the Miter SE because they provide a nice screwdriver, but shimming that fence or adjusting the plate levelers with the L-allen is tedious.

1) I actually have noticed it but, since the movement of the arm is in an arc and the fixed point is the positioner lock, the distance from the lock is always the same. And, since the motion is minimal, the distance from the face to the bit should be negligable.

2) My LS came with an Allen Screwdriver for adjusting the fence. My Incra version of the Woodpeckers Sidewinder came with an allen wrench for adjusting the leveling set screws. I haven't found anything "tedious" about the LS or the Sidewinder at all. In fact, just the reverse. I think the combination is fantastic. (Note: I have the large version of the Sidewinder that holds my PC7518)