The bandsaw mainframe, and a question

[Phil Thien]

In a thread I started last weekend, I asked what I could expect to get from standard 2x4's if I wanted to square the corners up with my planer, to use for a workbench/tool stand. Here, this thread:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?189852-2x4-tool-stands-preparing-lumber&highlight=

Got lots of good help, and that next Sunday and Monday evening, I built my "bandsaw mainframe."

LOL. Yes, another one of my over the top thread titles, that likely leads to disappointing reading.

My bandsaw mainframe is a stand that supports two Skil HD 10" bandsaws. These are real nice bandsaws that were made in Taiwan, and have some nice features: Cast aluminum body (low weight), 1/2-HP motor (and a real 1/2-HP), 7" of resaw.

Previously, I had only one of them on my workbench. It was setup for ripping/resawing. My spare saw (actually, I have two spares, I kept finding these saws for $50 to $100 on craigslist for a week or two, so I purchased three of them) was in storage. I had wanted to have a way to use one saw for ripping/resawing, and the other for curves (using the Carter stabilizer), so I figured I'd build a stand that could accommodate two saws. The bonus would be freeing up my workbench top.

I had originally intended to purchase one of the Rockler steel stands. When I got there I found that the early bird sale was over, and didn't want to spend $160. Knowing me, I'd also want a piece of BB plywood, and I'd be spending $200 for a stupid bandsaw stand.

I had some old 2x4's left from tearing out the crappy basement remodel the previous homeowner had done. So I figured, 2x4 stand.

I had intended to use a single piece of plywood for the top, and pocket hole screw it to the stand from below. But I didn't have any pieces of plywood that were large enough. So I decided to use two pieces of plywood (one for each saw), with some cleats on the bottom, that would just float in the top of the stand (thus the "mainframe").

So if I want to, I can actually lift either saw up and out of the stand without having to unbolt/unscrew anything. I don't know why I would ever do that, but like I said, I didn't have a large enough piece of plywood, so it is a feature!!!

After I decided to stick to materials on hand, I realized I needed a way to level the base. That is where I'm a bit stuck. Right now, I have a couple blocks of plywood under two legs. And that is certainly getting the job done. But it sure isn't very flexible (in the event I need to relocate the unit, I'd probably have to screw around with different thickness blocks of wood because my basement floor slopes towards a floor drain at different rates). Also, the two blocks of wood don't seem to do the bandsaw mainframe justice, LOL.

Truth be told, I'm not that big a fan of the way I've seen most levelling feet screw into wood legs. They basically pound a tee nut into the leg, and screw the foot into that. A year or two later, when you lift the stand, at least one foot and tee nut fall right out on the floor.

Rockler and McMaster have screw-in tee nuts:
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=1641&site=ROCKLER

Certainly an improvement. But the screws would be going into end-grain of soft 2x4 stock (not great) and they are expensive. And it wouldn't be in the spirit of materials on hand thing. Buying a package of those tee nuts, and four levelling feet, could run $30!

So I'm trying to figure out some sort of flexible shimming system that wouldn't require spending $20 or $30, and would be neat enough to suit something as cool as a "bandsaw mainframe."

I also have to setup DC, but I have all the stuff I need for that.

So if you have suggestions for a leveling idea, I'm all ears. Or eyes.

For those that thought they were going to see some real cool new bandsaw design or feature (sorry Van!), my apologies. I feel like I should apologize (like at the end of Car Talk): "Well, you've wasted another perfectly good ten minutes of your life."

[Roger Feeley]

Hi Phil,

I had this problem years ago and I used a 1/4-20 coupler nut. It's basically a 1/4-20 nut that's about an inch long. I drilled a really deep 5/16 hole in the end grain. Then I drilled another hole for the coupler. I made it just a bit undersize so the coupler goes in tight. I drilled it about 1/2" too deep. Now comes the tricky part. Using epoxy glue, I glued the coupler into the hole. Finally, I made a 1/2" long dowel with a 5/16" hole in the middle and glued that on top of the coupler.

Before gluing the coupler, put a bunch of paraffin on a bolt and coat the threads of the coupler. That way, if any epoxy gets inside, it won't stick.

At the end of the process, your end grain will have this long nut buried in it that you can thread a long bolt into. Use a stop nut with a washer against the wood surface and you should be good for a very long time.

I did this for a globe that my parents gave me. It had a turned post with a screw driven into the end grain. The globe fell off about the third time we turned it. I did the above and it was still tight when we gave it away 10 years later (out of date).

[Phil Thien]

Thanks Roger.

After reading your suggestion, and a bunch of pages on the web, I came up with something similar to yours.

I decided on 3/8-16 x 3-1/2" long carriage bolts (I had some 3/8" hardware on hand). I drilled some 5/16" holes into the legs, and then clamped the four sides of the leg (to prevent splitting). Next, I used a 3/8-16 x 3-1/2" long (threaded full length) bolt to thread the hole. I wiped the bolt with some paraffin wax before using it for the threading, and drive it in with my drill driver.

Next, I used a 3/8-16 x 3-1/2" long carriage head bolt, a 3/8-16 nut, and a 3/8" fender washer, and turned that into the hole I threaded in the leg. I use a small wrench to turn the carriage head bolt in/out of the hole. Once I have all the carriage head bolts adjusted so the stand is level and doesn't wobble, I snug the 3/8" nut up to the bottom of the leg. So the threads in the leg don't really carry any weight, they just help me adjust. The nut/washer carry the weight.

Finally, I made some small (1-3/4") round disks from plywood, and counterbored the center so the the carriage bolt head would sit in the middle.

Thanks for the inspiration!

[John Coloccia]

I use scrap bits of wood to level everything in my shop. I've stopped thinking about "what happens if one day I want to do this", and now only think about what I currently have and getting it up and running. I wouldn't waste even one more second on a more complex leveling system. If you really want to worry about it, why not worry about it when you actually move things around. That will buy you some time, and maybe you'll never have to do it at all.

[Lee Schierer]

Truth be told, I'm not that big a fan of the way I've seen most levelling feet screw into wood legs. They basically pound a tee nut into the leg, and screw the foot into that. A year or two later, when you lift the stand, at least one foot and tee nut fall right out on the floor.


Simple and cheap solution buy the levelers with the pound in Tee nuts. Once the tee nuts are in, drill a pilot hole for a#8 x1-1/14" pan head sheet metal screw tight in one of the notches in the tee nut. Drive the screw in so the screw head holds the tee nut in the wood. The tee nut won't ever fall out.

[Don Jarvie]

How unlevel were they? It's nice to be level but in this case a little off is no big deal. As long as the blade and top and square to each other it doesnt
atter if the saw itself is a bit off. If its way off that's a different story.

[Phil Thien]

How unlevel were they? It's nice to be level but in this case a little off is no big deal. As long as the blade and top and square to each other it doesnt
atter if the saw itself is a bit off. If its way off that's a different story.

I'd say I was off about 1/2" from one side to another. But I was also initially wobbling, because of the uneven floor.

So I was going to use a piece of veneer under one leg, but was able to move the stand about a foot back and found a spot where I was only 1/2" off from side to side, and the stand didn't wobble. But I didn't really want the stand there.

I doubt I would have wasted any time on this if it wasn't for the wobbling. Looking around for a 1/2" thick piece of wood for one leg, and 9/16" thick piece for another leg, etc., was a non-started.

[Phil Thien]

I use scrap bits of wood to level everything in my shop. I've stopped thinking about "what happens if one day I want to do this", and now only think about what I currently have and getting it up and running. I wouldn't waste even one more second on a more complex leveling system. If you really want to worry about it, why not worry about it when you actually move things around. That will buy you some time, and maybe you'll never have to do it at all.

It is hard to argue with any of that. As I was explaining to Don (below), the floor is uneven enough that I was getting wobbling. And eliminating the wobbling was going to require finding shims of just the right thickness.

I also sort of enjoy solving problems like this, anyhow. I'm sure I'll apply this solution to a similar problem in the future.

[Phil Thien]

Simple and cheap solution buy the levelers with the pound in Tee nuts. Once the tee nuts are in, drill a pilot hole for a#8 x1-1/14" pan head sheet metal screw tight in one of the notches in the tee nut. Drive the screw in so the screw head holds the tee nut in the wood. The tee nut won't ever fall out.

That is a good idea. Although, end-grain screw-holding power of these 2x4's is not impressive. I ran a #6 screw into the end grain with the clutch set at about the lowest level and spun the screw with ease.

[Rick Potter]

Something to consider in future builds: Elevator bolts are available at many hardware stores. Now, I have to admit that at first I scratched my head thinking "golllly, why would this place carry bolts for elevators?". Actually they are like carriage bolts with a big, flat head, about an inch or so wide. The are meant to adjust height of various things, hence the name. You can even get them with a rubber cover.

Rick Potter

[Phil Thien]

Something to consider in future builds: Elevator bolts are available at many hardware stores. Now, I have to admit that at first I scratched my head thinking "golllly, why would this place carry bolts for elevators?". Actually they are like carriage bolts with a big, flat head, about an inch or so wide. The are meant to adjust height of various things, hence the name. You can even get them with a rubber cover.

Rick Potter

I saw those at McMaster. McMaster doesn't seem to carry the ones with rubber covers. Are the rubber covers available separately at your hardware store?

[Clint Baxter]

Another good way to put in leveling hardware that wont fall out would be to use cross dowels to screw in to. Woodpeckers sells an assortment of sizes up to ones that will handle a 3/8-16 bolt. You can use an elevator bolt or even a simple carriage bolt and then snug up a nut on the bottom of the leg to lock it in place.

Clint

[Phil Thien]

Another good way to put in leveling hardware that wont fall out would be to use cross dowels to screw in to. Woodpeckers sells an assortment of sizes up to ones that will handle a 3/8-16 bolt. You can use an elevator bolt or even a simple carriage bolt and then snug up a nut on the bottom of the leg to lock it in place.

Clint

That would be a good way, too. I knew I had seen larger cross-dowels somewhere. The largest I have is 1/4-20. I should order some of the larger ones to have on-hand.

These "limited to materials on hand" projects are easier when you have absolutely everything on-hand, LOL.

[Rick Potter]

Hi Phil,

I don't know who stocks the rubber cover type, but I have a set with 3/8" bolts out in the shop. I got them off of something, but don't remember what. Hey, don't they have these under washers and dryers? Seems like they do.

Also, Rockler, I think, has some nice thingies that are like Tee nuts, except they don't pound in. They have three wings on them and you drill a tight hole, tap it in, and screw the three wings down. End grain or not, they should hold for a long time. If you want to get fancy, they also have levelers that screw to the sides of the legs with a lip under the legs, perfect for plywood sides on a tool stand.

Last suggestion, and I will shut up. Why don't you make the bottom of that tool stand into a cabinet, and use the floor space to its max?

Rick Potter

[Phil Thien]

Hi Phil,

I don't know who stocks the rubber cover type, but I have a set with 3/8" bolts out in the shop. I got them off of something, but don't remember what. Hey, don't they have these under washers and dryers? Seems like they do.

Well I'm going to keep my eyes open for them. I will also watch for old washers/dryers, and swipe their levelling feet (good idea)!


Also, Rockler, I think, has some nice thingies that are like Tee nuts, except they don't pound in. They have three wings on them and you drill a tight hole, tap it in, and screw the three wings down. End grain or not, they should hold for a long time. If you want to get fancy, they also have levelers that screw to the sides of the legs with a lip under the legs, perfect for plywood sides on a tool stand.

I've actually used both of those in the past. Before I went the direction I did, I tried a smaller (5/16-18) screw-in tee nut I had and just didn't like the grab of the screw. But I'm sure they'd be great if I wasn't working with this construction lumber. You're right, it would hold, I just figured no sense in installing 12 screws when you know they're all going to spin in the holes. I'm too picky, maybe.

And I've also used those lifting levellers intended for plywood. They work great!


Last suggestion, and I will shut up. Why don't you make the bottom of that tool stand into a cabinet, and use the floor space to its max?

Rick Potter

Don't shut up. You're overflowing with good ideas. That is another one. I had thought about it, still thinking about it.

But now that I can easily cut curves, I'm sort of onto that, now. Thinking rocking horse for a new nephew.