Lever cap screw seized in frog

[Charles Bjorgen]

Hey gang -- I have a 604 (not the one in the Classifieds) that has the lever cap screw frozen in the frog. I've soaked it in Liquid Wrench, Evapo-Rust and a product called Kroil with absolutely no luck. This morning I applied heat to the frog/screw assembly with a heat gun, tapping the screw with a screw driver and small hammer. Still no progress. My next step, I think, is to hack saw the screw off and try to drill out the screw on the drill press with the frog held in a small machinist's vise. I do have screw extractors but I'm concerned about ruining the threads in the frog. If anyone has any other thoughts on this, fire away please.

[James Taglienti]

I have gotten the lever cap screw out a few ways. 12" pipe wrench works usually. Also one of the handheld impact drivers. I have also used a 14v impact with a screwdriver bit in it. Used an undersized screw extractor in a t-handle to avoid marring threads. Once I snapped one off and mangled it so badly that I drilled in from the backside and tried to drill it out that way. The drill bit bound up in the screw and threaded it all the way out cleanly!

I'm surprised the Kroil didnt work!

[Charles Bjorgen]

I soaked it in the Kroil overnight. I had hoped that would be the last resort. I'm thinking further that I might lock a vise-grip wrench on the threads and crank on that. I just don't want to destroy the frog. I bought this plane at an antique show about 10 or 12 years ago and never got around to working on it until this year. The plane is actually functional as is but is just a tad loose when I snap the lever cap in place. With a Hock iron it's even a bit tighter. Still, I'd like it to be right.

[steven c newman]

Can you get a can of PB Blaster? I tried it on that wreck of a DE6c last month. I let it soak for a while, and then just a large screwdriver to break both bolts loose. 238426the "Before' shot, and238427installed in it'e new home. All three bolts were frozen in place.

[Lamar Keeney]

I don't think a heat gun will have enough heat to be effective. If you've got some atf and acetone, mix 50/50 and repeat with the tapping. +1 for the hand held impact driver. These are a good tools to have.

[Michael Ray Smith]

In descending order of preference:

1. +1 on the PB Blaster. Best stuff I've found.
2. Do you have a brace and a screw driver bit? If so, try it. You can get a lot of torque with a brace. I've had lots of success that way, specifically with frog screws.
3. Instead of a heat gun, use a propane torch (carefully, and quickly -- for just a few seconds!) to focus heat on the screw itself. I focus on the head of the screw, even when there are some threads exposed. The idea is to expand the screw to break it loose. Then when it cools it can be removed. But the key is to expand just the screw, not the threads in the frog. A heat gun heats everything, not just the screw. This is always my last resort. I don't know enough metallurgy to know the precise damage you might do, but anything involving fire just seems like a big risk.

[Bruce Haugen]

If you are really concerned about this plane, hunt down a good machinist. If nothing else, they can electro-spark it out.

[jamie shard]

Don't be in a hurry. Soak it overnight, tap, soak again... Try applying heat to the frog, tap, soak again... It's not uncommon to take a week to get a screw to release. Sometimes being slow and lazy is actually the best way to go and this is one of those rare situations. It will loosen up.

Think of this as training for the day when you buy a rare piece of equipment with hard-to-replace parts. Going slow is the only way to separate the parts without damage and damage isn't an option.

(I've rushed too many jobs in my life and then made >more< work for myself... trying to prevent that from happening to others!)

:)

[Charles Bjorgen]

All pretty good tips. I located my old hand held impact driver in my garage tool cabinet this morning. This tool dates back to when I was rebuilding old GM auto transmissions. I apparently had used it for that when cars were my hobby. I think I'll give it another Kroil soak overnight and try the impact tool. I'll probably make a wood jig to hold the frog at the appropriate angle to keep the screw vertical while striking it. Thanks all. I'll let you know when and if I succeed.

[Charles Bjorgen]

Got it and it finally was pretty simple. After soaking in Kroil again for about 40 hours, I clamped the frog in a standard vise and turned the screw with a plumbers' style channel lock pliers. I actually think the soak was not needed. The screw head took a beating from the pliers but I was able to replace it for one from another parts Bedrock 604 I have on hand. Curiously, I was going to use the screw from a parts Jack plane but it was too long.

I'd like to clean up the threads in the frog but I forget what screw thread Stanley used. I recall that it's not a standard hardware thread. Anyone recall that size?

[Jim Koepke]

I'd like to clean up the threads in the frog but I forget what screw thread Stanley used. I recall that it's not a standard hardware thread. Anyone recall that size?

My recollection is that it is 28 tpi on an odd sized shaft.

I will try to remember to check on my visit to the shop today.

jtk

[Dan Case]

I know you got it out all ready but if this ever happens again I agree with Charles on the hand held impact driver. I had the same problem that you had and I tried for days to get the screw out. Finally my dad suggest I try his old hand held impact driver. It worked like a charm. Just whack the top of the driver with a hammer and the screw turns enough to break loose. I have since used it several other times. I now consider it a must have tool for restoring old tools.

[Adam Neat]

Charles you can grind/file your old screw and make an effective tap for cleaning out the threaded hole (If the threads on the screw are still OK)

I cant seem to track down a pic so I will try and get you one tonight or tomorrow

[Charles Bjorgen]

Thanks, Adam. Actually I thinks it's okay. I dropped some oil in the hole and ran the screw back and forth until it seemed smooth. The whole problem was mainly in my mind right from the start. My son suggested the pliers solution last week. I should have followed his advice immediately. I just didn't want to ruin a pretty nice plane. Thanks, all, for your suggestions.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I don't know how well it'd work in this situation, but one thing I've done in the past that has worked well is to clamp the screw head in a metal working vise and apply the rotational force to the part it's screwed into; in this case, clamp that frog screw in the vise and try rotating the frog. I don't know how well it'd actually work in this situation, but I've had success with this method in the past, although the times I've used it, I believe I was trying to get a hold on (partially stripped) hex headed fasteners, and working with larger parts that gave a bit more leverage than a small frog might.

Of course, since you got it out, none of this matters!

Glad to hear you got it working, though!

[Johnny Kleso]

I had a frozen micro drill chuck, I gave it a spray with AreoKroil very few days and tried to loosen it..
After about a week I almost broke my wrists, the threads were working like buttered and I was twisting like a gorilla..

[Charles Bjorgen]

Speaking of things running butter smooth I installed a freshly sharpened Hock iron in that plane this morning and have now changed my mind. I had thought about selling it but now will keep it. I'm still a believer in the Bedrock frog being better than the the standard model. Of course, that's now inviting a whole new discussion, eh?

By the way, Johnny, I reference your planes 101 site regularly, especially the Stanley types page. Very nice.