Bevel Up Woodie?

[Mike Allen1010]

I have an extra blade for my Veritas bevel up smoother. Before Leigh "the plane anarchist" came along, I was perfectly content with this extra blade in my tool cabinet. Now however, thanks to Leigh's "Great Woodie Build Off" thread, I feel compelled to build a wooden Body plane for it.

I typically use three-piece laminated construction with a wedge captured in abutments. The problem is with the low bed angle in a bevel up configuration (20° I think?), I'm not sure if this is feasible in a woodie smoother?

Where would I put my back hand? - even using a Krenov style, given the low bed angle wouldn't it look weird?

If I had an open, Stanley style rear tote, would I have enough room to get to the back of the blade with an adjusting hammer or to move the wedge in and out of the plane without hitting the handle?

I would sincerely appreciate any advice, suggestions or pictures of examples.

Thanks also to Leigh for ruining the blissful complacency of the "extra" plane blade.

All the best,

Mike

[Sam Takeuchi]

Don't. a wedge or anything that is trying to hold the blade down onto the bed is the same force trying to push the blade through the bed. Most likely it would cause thin wooden bed to bulge the sole eventually if not right away. Even the metal plane like Stanley No.62 had a problem with back of mouth chipping and missing chunk of cast iron due to it being thin. Wood would fare worse.

By the way, why not just make bevel down plane? Bevel down plane with 40 degree bed angle is perfectly feasible if low angle is what you are after. If variable angle through BU design is what you want to achieve, wood construction isn't the way to go.

[Richard Line]

A problem for a low angle woody is the planning force is nearly parallel to and opposing the wedge. That is it is trying to push the blade (and wedge) back up the ramp. I suspect that is why you don't see low angle woodies, plus the thin bottom problem Sam noted.

[Jack Curtis]

... By the way, why not just make bevel down plane? Bevel down plane with 40 degree bed angle is perfectly feasible if low angle is what you are after. If variable angle through BU design is what you want to achieve, wood construction isn't the way to go.

Yeah, turn the blade over. Or increase the bevel angle if used bevel up. Or try mortising the plane blank. But whatever, get out of that hide. :)

[Chris Vandiver]

Here you go. http://www.billcarterwoodworkingplanemaker.co.uk/8.html

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Mike

I built an infill BU smoother with a 25 degree bed using a Stanley #3 as a shell. This is one of the best users in my experience ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/GalootSmootherII_html_318dbbc4.jpg

Link: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/GalootSmootherII.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jack Curtis]

Chris, Bill Carter is sure a master; but I don't know if I could waste all that boxwood he does, must have a huge supply as these things go. Might be one of those cases I'd have to do Krenov or maybe an infill.

[Jim Belair]

A vintage example that Carter's is modeled after. Which isn't to say is was free of the problems others have noted, just that a low angle woodie isn't a new concept.

http://www.thebestthings.com/oldtools/graphics/wp120371.jpg

[Dan Case]

Stanley made a BU transitional plane (#25). I am not sure how well it did though.

[Mike Allen1010]

Thanks a lot guys all your feedback and suggestions are super helpful!

Derek, your infill based on a Stanley #3 plane body is genius! if I can get through grinding/removing the original Stanley frog, I'm definitely going to give it a shot. As always, thank you for your generous explanation and photo tutorial! I built my first would be using your tutorial on building a wooden, razee Jack plane - my hard copy is covered with so many shop notes and metal/wood dust it's barely legible!

For the bevel up woodie, based on the structural risks mentioned, I guess I want to use the highest bed angle I can consistent with the correct blade bevel angle to achieve a final cutting angle I want which is 50°.

I will be using Veritas A2 bevel up plane blade (from their smaller smoother) - should I go with a 25° bed angle and 25° blade bevel angle, or is the 25° bevel angle on the blade too low to hold up in hardwoods?

I guess the alternative would be a 20° bed angle and 30° blade bevel angle? Which of these (or some other combination of bed and blade bevel angles) would be the best?

I plan to use a dense, tropical hardwood like cocabolo or Goncalo Alves, etc. to combat the stresses on the plane body involved in the low angle configuration.

Again, any advice, suggestions etc. are very much appreciated!

All the best, Mike

[Matthew N. Masail]

you could always laminate the bottom with some 1/4 inch brass/ bronze, that way you can go 20° bed angle and 30° blade bevel and not worry about it holding up, from my understanding A2 doesn’t hold up as well as O1 in low angles. I plan to make a shoulder plane this way, and maybe a low angle block.

[Tony Shea]

So, if your goal is to achieve a 50* angle of attack (planing angle) Im not sure why you prefer the bevel up configuration. Just because you're using a blade that belongs in a bevel up plane doesn't mean it needs to be bevel up, which I'm sure you're aware.

On the other hand the bevel up configuration does give you a bit more play as far as changing planing angles from low to high with simple micro-bevels. But this configuration does not come without its' troubles in a wooden bodied plane, tuning the plane into working condition may or may not prove successful.

[Chris Vandiver]

Wooden bodied bevel up planes were used primarily(maybe exclusvely) for shooting end grain. For this purpose, the angle of attack is better when it's low. If you want a plane that has, let's say, a 50deg angle, it might as well be bevel down. Japanese planes(kanna)that are made for end grain have a single blade bedded at between 35-38deg. They are bedded bevel down. Strike block plane blades are bedded down as well(37-38deg). Of course it's hard to beat a low angle jack(LN or LV)with their low angle(around 37deg total angle)and weight, for end grain work. I think Klaus(one of the Two Lawyers)posted a skewed low angle bevel down woody he made for Leigh's plane making thread. A nice looking plane that seemed to do the trick.

[Sam Takeuchi]

Japanese planes(kanna)that are made for end grain have a single blade bedded at between 35-38deg. They are bedded bevel up.

I've never seen a bevel up Japanese plane. Bedding at that angle and being bevel up makes it less than ideal for end grain work. I have seen quite a few upper 30s degree bevel down Japanese planes, however.

[Chris Vandiver]

Sorry Sam, you are absolutely correct. I made a couple of typos(they're fixed now). I meant to say that Japanese planes, as well as American strike block planes are bedded bevel down. My mistake.