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Phil Thien
08-03-2012, 4:22 PM
I'd like to be able to weld stuff like tubular steel. I don't have any experience with welding other than a spot welder back in 8th (I think) grade.

I want, for welding, the equivalent of my Ryobi BT3000 table saw for woodworking. Does that makes sense? My Ryobi saw does almost everything a big cabinet saw does, but it isn't designed for a professional woodworker, more like a weekend warrior. So I'd like same for welding.

I'm looking for a good primer book or video. I don't have 220 where I'll be doing this. And I have a limited budget.

Any pointers on where to get started would be appreciated.

ray hampton
08-03-2012, 4:30 PM
Vocational School or a welding supply store might be able to guide you

Matt Meiser
08-03-2012, 4:53 PM
Take a look at the Hobart machines at Tractor Supply. They make a 110V MIG welder, used to be the 140 but that may have changed by now, that would be find for anything you'd probably be welding at home. Buy the gas and forgo using the flux core wire that comes with. There's also a welding co-op (think Ace Hardware) called Weldmark that at least was private labeling the Hobart machines at an attractive price. My brother has their version of the 140 and has been satisfied with it. I own its big brother the 180 with the Hobart paint but that's a 220 machine.

There are also some combo machines out now that do MIG, TIG, and stick all in one machine. Of course you'd need different gasses for MIG/TIG so two tanks and a number of accessories. I don't know much about them other than advertising from my local welding supplier, but they might at least be worth a look--albeit at a much higher price than a MIG only machine.

You might check two if there are going to be any demo days at any local shops or events. Our county fair is this week and one of the local shops has a huge display including demo stations for several Lincoln machines.

Ed Hazel
08-03-2012, 4:57 PM
You can get a 110 volt mig welder should work on thickness up to 1/8 or so. Poul can get them in flux core wire that does not require a tank of shielding gas the downsize is the wire costs more. I believe Harbor freight has some cheap mig welders. If you want to get into thicker materials you will need to go to 220 volts.

Would think you could take a class, it is one of those things that a little time with a knowledgeable person will make a large difference in the learning curve.

Jim Laumann
08-03-2012, 5:04 PM
Phil

As a welding newbie, I have to echo Matt's comments....get a 110V wire feed unit and the gas. I "inherited" my son's Clarke unit - a EN130 if memory serves me correctly - he bought himself a much more powerful unit, and I got the "old one" for my use.

Be aware that the smaller wire feed unit's will have a limited duty cycle, which is the amount of time you can weld before the machine begins to overhead. Assuming you aren't familar w/ the term - duty cycle is the percentage of time you can weld in a 10 minute interval. For my machine, on the lowest amperage setting, the duty cycle is 100%, in contrast, on it's highest setting (about 70 amps), the duty cycle is 10%, or 1 minute.

My welds aren't pretty - but so far - all two of them have held.

Jim

Carroll Courtney
08-03-2012, 5:07 PM
Another good thing about the size that Matt suggested is that it can weld as small as 20ga(I think) up to 3/8 thick.Using the gas the welds will look like you know what your doing(works for me).These welders are not made for continous welding like in fab shops but made more for repairs,that has not been a problem for me for the last few yrs.I've made mobile bases,fill holes where holes not needed,weld up cracks,made motor covers and the list goes on.Its a good thing to have in the shop----Carroll

Doug W Swanson
08-03-2012, 7:10 PM
I bought a Hobart Handler 140 a few years ago and I love it. It can be used without gas but I've only used it with gas. It's done everything I've asked it to and I've been very happy with it. I could have easily bought a 220v model but I opted for the 110v one so I can use it anywhere. I've even brought it over to my neighbor's house a few times which is something I could NOT do with a 220v welder.

John McClanahan
08-03-2012, 7:29 PM
If you shop for a mig welder, be sure to get one that be used with or without gas, even if you only use it gasless. This type produce DC current and produce a much better weld. Some low end units produce AC current and splatter much more.

John

ray hampton
08-03-2012, 7:43 PM
I have not done any welding for a longg time, If you are welding Aluminum, do you need a T I G welder or M I G

Ole Anderson
08-03-2012, 8:22 PM
I have not done any welding for a longg time, If you are welding Aluminum, do you need a T I G welder or M I G

TIG for aluminum.

My son is an ironworker and has a small Millermatic 135 MIG for working on the Jeep. 20 amp 115 volt circuit needed. It has been in my garage, along with the Jeep, for better than a year now. I really need to learn to use it. But he did not get the bottle with it, uses flux coated wire, and it spatters a lot. Guess we need to step up and add the gas before I start playing with it. Of course most of the welding on the Jeep is done now.

curtis rosche
08-03-2012, 8:39 PM
I have not done any welding for a longg time, If you are welding Aluminum, do you need a T I G welder or M I G

either. I have done it on MIG and on TIG. I enjoyed MIG more,,,

Perry Holbrook
08-03-2012, 8:52 PM
I have not done any welding for a longg time, If you are welding Aluminum, do you need a T I G welder or M I G

I upgraded from a Hobart 140 to a Miller 211 Mig so I could weld aluminum. You need a spool gun attachment and a tank of argon. There is a learning curve for the aluminum.

Perry

ray hampton
08-03-2012, 9:44 PM
I upgraded from a Hobart 140 to a Miller 211 Mig so I could weld aluminum. You need a spool gun attachment and a tank of argon. There is a learning curve for the aluminum.

Perry

yes on the learning curve for al. but other metals also will melt before they turn red like steel do, T I G will weld most non-ferrous metals

Kevin Groenke
08-03-2012, 10:11 PM
+1 on the Hobart Handler 140. We've had one in our student shop for 10+ years and it's been trouble free. Two simple controls (voltage, feed rate) make this machine easy to learn on and relatively forgiving. Easily welds steel sheet, rod/bar, angle, square tube, etc.. from 16ga - 3/8" thick (some say thinner is possible but we've had limited success). Do invest in the gas set up, you will get MUCH cleaner welds than with flux-core wire. There is a spool gun that can be fitted to this machine for welding aluminum, but if you're considering welding aluminum with any frequency, I think you would be better served investing in a higher powered unit such as the Handler 210 (it takes much more amperage to weld aluminum).

TIG vs MIG is really more a matter of exactly what you're welding. MIG is quick and easy, effective strength - TIG is slower, but much more controlled with higher detail achievable. Amperage on a TIG torch is controlled with a foot pedal, so one can easily and immediately modulate the heat that you're putting into the weld to control the situation AT the puddle created by the electric arc: the electrode is a piece of tungsten ground to a pinpoint to give pretty much pinpoint control. Filler metal is added to a puddle with the welders second hand when necessary. Hand, foot, torch, filler metal coordination is a significant challenge.


In MIG the electrode IS the filler metal and it is fed out of a handheld gun - pretty much point and shoot.

One can lay down quite acceptable welds after just 10 or twenty minutes of practice with a MIG welder - to consistently produce quality welds with a TIG takes hours and hours or practice and experience.

The investment to get into TIG is also significantly higher. I would suggest starting with an entry level 110v MIG. If you find that there are projects that you need TIG for in the future, you will always have uses for the MIG. In our shop the MIG is used 10x more than the TIG, usually if we're using the TIG, we're doing something that cannot be done on the MIG.

I don't know about MIGs other than the Hobart: Miller and Lincoln undoubtedly make very similar units at similar price point that are probably great machines (Miller and Lincoln are quite respected in welding circles) . The inexpensive Harbor Freight and similar units would be tempting, but could be frustrating as well, do you're research and you should be OK.

-kg

Dave Lehnert
08-03-2012, 10:31 PM
How much $$$$ is one looking to invest in the gas and tank? How long does a tank last on average?
I own a 110 unit that has gas hookup but never used it.

Jeff Monson
08-03-2012, 10:49 PM
How much $$$$ is one looking to invest in the gas and tank? How long does a tank last on average?
I own a 110 unit that has gas hookup but never used it.

Dave the tanks last quite awhile. My 110 volt Miller gets used 4 to 5 times a week at my shop, a tank will last for 3 to 4 months. Downside is most places will require you to lease the tank. The regulator and hose kit are not expensive for a small 110 volt MIG welder. Our Praxair dealer charges around $50.00 to fill the tank. I believe my lease was a 15 year, I cant remember what I paid for the lease, it was quite a few years ago, maybe around $150.00??

Dave Lehnert
08-03-2012, 10:56 PM
Dave the tanks last quite awhile. My 110 volt Miller gets used 4 to 5 times a week at my shop, a tank will last for 3 to 4 months. Downside is most places will require you to lease the tank. The regulator and hose kit are not expensive for a small 110 volt MIG welder. Our Praxair dealer charges around $50.00 to fill the tank. I believe my lease was a 15 year, I cant remember what I paid for the lease, it was quite a few years ago, maybe around $150.00??
Thanks for the info.

Dan Friedrichs
08-03-2012, 10:58 PM
There is a spool gun that can be fitted to this machine for welding aluminum,

A dumb question: Can you explain what this "spool gun" is, and why it's needed for aluminum? (I've MIG welded before, and I've seen a spool gun before, I just never understood what it was for or why aluminum requires it)

Matt Meiser
08-03-2012, 11:11 PM
You can't push the aluminum wire through the long hose. Basically it just moves the spool of wire to the business end.

Phil Thien
08-04-2012, 12:24 AM
Wow, thanks everyone for the tips. Sounds like the Hobart 140 with gas is the way to go. I will look into that one, or whatever it has become.

I thought of taking a course. I also have a client that has a large service facility for their trucks (hundreds of trucks, 40-50 mechanics). I've counted at least a half dozen different welding rigs (all big, though) there. So next time I'm there I'll ask if they'd be willing to provide a bit of a primer on MIG welding.

Tom Hintz
08-04-2012, 3:53 AM
I have reviews of a few wire welders as well as a couple of stick machines but for the purposes you list, wire welders will be light years easier to use/learn. My personal machine is the Lincoln Pro MIG 180 but you may not need something that big. Be careful about "under buying" a welder as that seems to be very common. People try to save a few more dollars with a smaller machine only to find out hat it does not handle the material they need to work with. Get your needs identified well before spending the bucks!

http://www.newmetalworker.com/Reviews/#welders

Mac McQuinn
08-04-2012, 10:44 AM
Phil,

Safety 1st, Get a Welding fumes respirator. Welding fumes are nothing to mess with. Buy a good comfortable welding hood with appropriate tint for the welding process. You can get a magnifier for your hood which can really help with aging eyes. Get a good pair of welding gloves and always make yourself as comfortable as possible when welding, the quality of your welds will show.

Determine your available current and amperage available, I've found the 110V machines need all the amperage you can give them when cranking them up. If you have only a 15 Amp circuit, You're going to need to upgrade to 20 amps and try to keep your Welder on a short dedicated run. In selecting a machine, go to a well equipped Weld center with Demo booths. Try several welders, get a feel for capabilities, smoothness and controls. I personal like machines with infinite controls opposed to segmented clickers, allowing me to get the most precise settings. Make sure consumables are available for the machine you purchase and it's always nice for a welding supply to be open at least until noon on Saturdays.

Picking the correct machine is only part of the decision, you need to determine the right Weld process for the material also. No doubt the Mig process has it's place and gives smooth welds comparatively speaking although the Flux core process will allow you to weld rusty, thicker metal outside on a windy day without transporting a tank. While welding mild steel is relatively inexpensive, adding aluminum capabilities adds a spool gun, argon, etc and can get pricy for a hobbyist. Tig welding is another process altogether requiring different technique, equipment and $.



Good luck and have fun,
Mac

George Carlson
08-04-2012, 5:22 PM
I'm certainly not a professional welder, but I've been doing a lot of welding for almost 50 years. I learned to gas weld when I was about 11. My best friend's father was a precision welder in the tool$die shop at a Fisher Body plant. Most of my work now is TIG and mostly aluminum.

I would tell you what I tell everyone who wants to start making things from metal. But a nice small oxy-acetylene rig. Vector makes a nice torch you can rely on. A good start is 40cu-ft tanks.

With the torch you can make excellent welds on mild steel. But you can also braze, silver solder, weld aluminum (with practice), loosen frozen nuts, bend metal, heat treat, and cut steel. Gas welding is not easy, it takes two hands, but the versitility is unmatched by any other method. Besides, look at any welding truck, you will always see a gas rig, why not start there.

Mac McQuinn
08-04-2012, 8:02 PM
Excellent information here. When I went to Welding school 37 years ago, Gas welding/brazing/cutting was the 1st thing you were instructed in. There is something really satisfying about cutting cleanly through 3" thick steel and watching it drop to the ground or braze welding a well fitted tubular junction, a somewhat forgotten art although a thing of beauty.

Mac



I'm certainly not a professional welder, but I've been doing a lot of welding for almost 50 years. I learned to gas weld when I was about 11. My best friend's father was a precision welder in the tool$die shop at a Fisher Body plant. Most of my work now is TIG and mostly aluminum.

I would tell you what I tell everyone who wants to start making things from metal. But a nice small oxy-acetylene rig. Vector makes a nice torch you can rely on. A good start is 40cu-ft tanks.

With the torch you can make excellent welds on mild steel. But you can also braze, silver solder, weld aluminum (with practice), loosen frozen nuts, bend metal, heat treat, and cut steel. Gas welding is not easy, it takes two hands, but the versitility is unmatched by any other method. Besides, look at any welding truck, you will always see a gas rig, why not start there.

George Carlson
08-04-2012, 9:21 PM
One thing I forgot to mention. Oxy rigs are the ultimate in portability, no electricty needed. BTW, watch out for those how-to videos on Utube. They show some really awful welding techniques. A great source of information is anything by Ron Covell. Also the experimental Aircraft folks have good instruction on welding techniques.

Stephen Cherry
08-05-2012, 12:50 AM
The first question would be what do you want to weld. For rough stuff, mig makes it easy. It's also very easy to lay down a bead that really does not penetrate very well. Great for boat trailers, mobile bases, etc. For precision, tig is much better. Especially for thin metal. Aluminum tig is ac. steel is dc. You can get small inverter dc units pretty cheap, that can produce excellent results.

If you want to butt weld thin metal, like for car rust repair, mig really is not a good choice- the constantly feeding wire produces a hard thick weld. Tig lets you very precisely add metal.

I agree with the oxy idea also, although I have never tried it. The first thing to learn would be how to watch the little pool of molten metal- from there it's all practice. It's kind of like keeping your eye on the golf ball; you do not realize you weren't doing it until you start doing it.

Keith Outten
08-05-2012, 8:05 AM
I've been a welding inspector almost all my life. The thing about inspecting other people's welds is that you know how bad your own welds are when you are learning :)

I have a Miller Bobcat 250 on a trailer, a Hobart Handler mig machine and a really old Miller Thunderbolt Buzz Box stick welder. The Thunderbolt is the one I use the most, probably because all I have to do is flip the switch and go as it sits on a shelf in my shop. I use the Hobart mig machine to weld thin flat bar and scrolls when I am doing wrought iron work (sign hangers).

I keep a pretty good selection of stick rod in my shop which includes 3/32" and 1/16" diameter welding rods for thin stuff. It seems that I am outside the norm in this thread as I prefer stick welding to the other techniques.
.

Thomas Bank
08-05-2012, 12:02 PM
No matter what brand you end up buying, Miller has some pretty good advice for starting out in this article: http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/articles/buying-your-first-welder--a-practical--informative-guide-for-do-it-yourselfers--

It does a very good job of explaining the different processes and which ones serve best for what purposes.

For reference, I've been welding for about twenty years now. Current equipment is a Millermatic 250X MIG, Miller Syncrowave 250DX TIG, and Hypertherm 1100 plasma.

John Coloccia
08-05-2012, 1:19 PM
One thing I forgot to mention. Oxy rigs are the ultimate in portability, no electricty needed. BTW, watch out for those how-to videos on Utube. They show some really awful welding techniques. A great source of information is anything by Ron Covell. Also the experimental Aircraft folks have good instruction on welding techniques.

I didn't want to say anything because everyone seemed set on arc welding, but I do gas welding (or used to, anyhow) and that's what I prefer for most tasks. Coincidentally, I learned to weld when I was experimental aircraft building :)

ray hampton
08-05-2012, 3:44 PM
I didn't want to say anything because everyone seemed set on arc welding, but I do gas welding (or used to, anyhow) and that's what I prefer for most tasks. Coincidentally, I learned to weld when I was experimental aircraft building :)

I did my share of arc welding [ tig/mig/stick] but I agree with John, gas welding are the best and the cutting torch are number one for cutting steel

John Fabre
08-05-2012, 5:19 PM
Thanks for posting this, I had the same question, now that I will doing body work (on cars).

ray hampton
08-05-2012, 6:33 PM
Thanks for posting this, I had the same question, now that I will doing body work (on cars).

If you plan on welding car bodies , your first tool should be a strong magnet , use it to test for plastic body parts

curtis rosche
08-05-2012, 9:07 PM
You can't push the aluminum wire through the long hose. Basically it just moves the spool of wire to the business end.

One place i worked we had an alum MIG set up with a 15FT whip and no spool gun,, worked well

John Fabre
08-05-2012, 9:26 PM
If you plan on welding car bodies , your first tool should be a strong magnet , use it to test for plastic body parts
Thanks for the heads up, I should not see much plastic on a 69' Dodge Charger.

Jim Barkelew
08-05-2012, 10:12 PM
One of my first major tool purchases was a cutting and welding set-up. Oxy-propane toarch for cutting and a Sears stick welder. Propane works fine for cutting and is much cheeper than actelene. The stick welder takes some practice but using rods with iron powder in the flux, 7018 rods I think, are easy to weld with. I have welded cast iron using special cast iron rods but that took some research.

For cutting a sawzall witha metal cutting blade cuts mild steel fine. A 4 in angle grinder with a thin disk also cuts OK but watch the sparks.


My latest welding project was a Thien top hat separator that works great. Last weekend I welded up a thumbnail sharpening jig for the Wolverene.


A welder is a great addition to a woodshop as long as the fire hazard is respected.


Jim

ray hampton
08-05-2012, 10:48 PM
Thanks for the heads up, I should not see much plastic on a 69' Dodge Charger.

LOL, I cut a 61 F100 up for scrap and were unable to cut the grill, the headlights cover, rearview mirror housings , taillights assemblers, hitting any of these with the flame from a torch for a split/second will melt it, is the Vette the only car body molded from fiberglas ?

Mac McQuinn
08-06-2012, 12:26 AM
If my memory serves me correctly,the Studebaker Avanti had a Fiberglass body.
Mac



LOL, I cut a 61 F100 up for scrap and were unable to cut the grill, the headlights cover, rearview mirror housings , taillights assemblers, hitting any of these with the flame from a torch for a split/second will melt it, is the Vette the only car body molded from fiberglas ?

Curt Harms
08-06-2012, 8:33 AM
I've been a welding inspector almost all my life. The thing about inspecting other people's welds is that you know how bad your own welds are when you are learning :)

I have a Miller Bobcat 250 on a trailer, a Hobart Handler mig machine and a really old Miller Thunderbolt Buzz Box stick welder. The Thunderbolt is the one I use the most, probably because all I have to do is flip the switch and go as it sits on a shelf in my shop. I use the Hobart mig machine to weld thin flat bar and scrolls when I am doing wrought iron work (sign hangers).

I keep a pretty good selection of stick rod in my shop which includes 3/32" and 1/16" diameter welding rods for thin stuff. It seems that I am outside the norm in this thread as I prefer stick welding to the other techniques.
.

But if you want to get frustrated as a newbie, get a cheap 110-120 amp AC welder like Harbor Freight used to sell. I don't see mine on Harbor Freight's web site any longer but they can still be found on Ebay and the like. I paid less than $100 and didn't have too high expectations so I'm okay with it. The welds seem okay but it can be a true PITA to strike and maintain an arc. It sure is handy to have one though for mobile bases, jigs and such. I agree with gas rigs being handy. I did a little gas welding and brazing in a welding class in school. It's fun but requires a little coordination because both hands are in play, one on the torch and one feeding filler metal. I'm not sure how an insurance company would view storing an oxy-acetylene rig in a residental basement and don't believe I'll find out :p.

Matt Meiser
08-06-2012, 10:38 AM
We've started a small metalworking club as an offshoot of our woodworking club. I've been unable to make the last two meetings, but I guess one of the guys brought a HF MIG machine he got from his daughter for Christmas and everyone was pleasantly surprised with it. But still, I'd spend the money for a better machine. I'd stick with something well supported too--Lincoln, Hobart, Miller mainly. My dad bought a Linde machine back in the 90's. Its been problematic since new, and the dealer was much less than helpful. Then the transformer blew up on it days out of warranty and they did nothing for him--and some of the problems were likely related to that. After replacement it was better electrically but still doesn't feed great. Both my brother and I have used it since buying our Hobarts and swear at the thing every time because we can't get it to work as well as our machines that cost 1/4-1/3 as much.

Another way to save a few bucks would be to watch CL for one of the 110 machines from someone upgrading. BUT, I'm told there's a difference between the Lincoln's sold at the big box stores and the ones sold by the local dealers, country of origin being one big difference. I've not verified, but something to look into before you start shopping. Buying used may get you hundreds of $$$ in accessories/consumables "free".

Steve Kesler
08-07-2012, 6:58 PM
Local adult ed center is a good resource. I took all the welding classes a couple of years ago at night in the winter. Great way to get started with access to metal to practice on and place to ask questions. Found out I really like tig welding. I bought a Miller Dynasty 200 amp tig, and a Lincoln 180 amp mig. I always use the tig first unless I'm in a hurry and just need to lay down a quick bead. It's come in handy for multiple projects..

Kevin Groenke
08-07-2012, 10:11 PM
The Thermal-Arc Fabricator 181i is a combination Mig, Tig, Stick machine with respectable amperage that seems to have gotten pretty good reviews (still relatively new though).

It seems like a lot of capability for the price (~$800, + ~$200 more for the Tig torch and pedal)
Does anybody know more about it?

-k

Matt Meiser
08-07-2012, 10:30 PM
That's one that one of the local shops has been advertising.

Adam Woznicki
08-08-2012, 8:44 PM
One place i worked we had an alum MIG set up with a 15FT whip and no spool gun,, worked well

If you use a teflon liner it should work ok.

Adam Woznicki
08-08-2012, 9:30 PM
Wall Mountain Company, Inc. has the best videos that I've seen. They have a nice clear picture of the puddle, and if you don't know what the puddle should look like and how to control it, the you don't know how to weld.
http://www.weldingvideos.com/fcaw.html

Just remember 90% of welding is prep, including good fit up. This is especially critical since you want to do tubing.

George Carlson
08-09-2012, 10:50 AM
Remember the Thermal-Arc Fabricator 181i is a DC machine. So if you have ideas about welding aluminum, you'll need another machine. The power souirce for TIG and MIG are very different. The MIG requires constant voltage, TIG and stick need constant. It's neat that they can do this today with the inverter electronics.

raul segura
08-26-2012, 7:52 PM
[ Please excuse my long windiness ]

Gas is very versatile. Also nice for Bronze cast work. Wished I had one.
These are my unprofessional thoughts,

I picked up a Lincoln with 110 power @ Lowe's. Plug in anywhere ! My needs are less structural than building heavy duty frames etc. $$.
I actually cut a band saw in half... . 3/8th thick cast iron, adding 12 in. clearance from the 7 in. I had, worked well.
Have made work tables benches, fixed lawnmower, and car manifolds.
One of my favored wood working tools !
Welding thin pipe is difficult with my MiG wire/flux /no gas. You want a gas welder or MiG w/gas. and more if fusing aluminum. Keep parts for aluminum and oily metal apart as aluminum needs to be very clean !!

Most likely better get a name brand welder, But I researched this one:
eBay: ... . Product: Lotos 3in1 IGBT Pilot Arc 50A plasma Cutter/200A TIG/STICK
Bad thing I found was getting repair parts [China] and only one rep. in the USA.


Things to make life easier, I recommend in time:
1. Harbor freight, cheep leather apron, gloves. [always cover up skin, where a shirt, don't ask ! where cotton and have an extinguisher handy !]
2. Harbor freight, Dimming helmet about $50.00 with coupon very nice !
3. Also thin grinding wheels 10 pack 4.5", [not the 4" ] very cheep.
4. I have several nice grinders, black and Decker is use mostly ?
5. You should get yourself a large vice while using these blades or they run out very quickly, (vibration). I Don't have chop saw, more difficult w/out, but get square results.
6. Use black and silver felt pens to mark.
6. A small squirrel fan that puts out flat stream,
I use a fan between me and the work, w/out blowing the flux gas off the metal. [I use when welding conduit w/ zinc coating, (very bad idea, not recommend, but very cheep excellent framing material )].
Also more difficult to weld because of the Zinc. (I flatten the ends w/ vice then weld, make sure you have the spliced side of tub on top or bottom before bending).
Bed frame angle iron is ideal very good, stiff metal.
Square fence pipe at Lowe's = $12.00 for a, 2" x 2" x 6'3" piece, with several bolts and Acorn nuts. Price that Separately !
7. Water based Anti-Spatter Spray [ works very nicely, much les grinding of the tags, in cleanup, well worth the price].
After grinding I sometimes Lip stick the welds by floating, Durhams water putty over the top, Sand and Seal. Hides the shameful welds Body filler is better, but Durhams is easier to work and longer shelf life.
9. You can weld pipes together end to end buy making a jig out of angle iron/bed frame. Ill have to do a right up on this very simple if you have a welder.

These are calculators for cutting pipe angles that may be printed, very good for customizing PVC parts.
1.
http://www.harderwoods.com/pipetemplate.php
2.
http://snip.awardspace.com/
3.
http://www.metalgeek.com/static/cope.pcgi

H.P. also has a decent pipe notcher that can be modifide to be more accurate, but I here it works well.

One of my favorite tools now is my dust collector with a nicely designed baffle !! Thanks for that.
Once you get a welder you'll never go back.

Phil Thien
08-26-2012, 9:22 PM
I'd like to thank everyone that responded. I have not purchased a welder yet. I was going to go look at some this weekend but got nailed with a "can you migrate our mail server this weekend" request. Soon, though. Real soon now.

ray hampton
08-26-2012, 9:46 PM
I'd like to thank everyone that responded. I have not purchased a welder yet. I was going to go look at some this weekend but got nailed with a "can you migrate our mail server this weekend" request. Soon, though. Real soon now.

Phil, your welding clothes are more important than your welder machine, I do not intend to say the wrong words but you will smell of smoke but some people are tooo polite to tell you, I never heard of smoke detectors around a welding area, what say you about smoke detectors

DO NOT WEAR white shirts, the white shirt will reflect the light from the arc straight to your eyes

Rick Lizek
08-26-2012, 10:01 PM
You really should take some classes and have things welded in different shops until you figure out how serious you want to get. Anyone can start welding dumpsters in no time with a Gas Mig set up. Having spent a number of years as a Metalsmith making hardware and such with Mig, Tig, Oxy acetylene. I'd never give up my Oxy acetylene for it's versatility to weld, silver braze, heating to bend and free frozen parts and cut steel. It's also cordless. I'd buy some smaller tanks instead of leasing.
I'm looking at the
http://www.multiplaz.com/multi-function
The Multiplaz, if it really does what it says it does, could really shake things up. Not needing tanks of shielding gas is pretty appealing.

http://www.multiplaz.com/portability

Larry Gipson
08-29-2012, 2:27 AM
I bought a Miller 211 a couple of years ago new for $1k, then added a tank and stand. Total was $1.6k with tax. The 211 will run on 110v or 220v. I talked my wife into it by promising her a cover for her chicken coop, which I made from 1 3/8 galvanized fence top rail and a little chicken wire. Recently I made her a 20ftx20ftx6ft cage with 4 10x10 compartments for various critters. She's got chickens and turkeys in it now. I still have my welder. :-)

I saw a 211 recently on Craigslist for $400 used, but that one probably lasted a day. If you stay with Miller, there's a reasonable chance you'll get a good machine. I'd probably buy a 135, 175, or 180 if I were looking and couldn't find a 211. (Note that the 175 & 180 are 240v) Don't forget the tank and the helmet.

So that takes care of the nails & glue. Now how will you cut sheet steel or sand it into shapes? I decided I needed a small saw and sander, so I bought a couple of Makita 4" grinders. One has a cut off wheel in it all the time. The other has either a grinding wheel or a flap disk in it. These are really handy tools for working metal. I've really put a lot of hours on them, hiding how bad my welds are. Galvanized may be the worst steel to weld. (The trick is to use a higher setting than normal to blow off the zinc coating, then weld quickly before you blow a hole in things.)

I also bought a 14" cut off saw, but it's not accurate enough to bother with. At least I have trouble with it. Maybe I should have bought a better one? I can cut angle iron and so forth much more accurately with an angle grinder.

I later added a plasma cutter. This is sort of the functional equivalent of a table saw or maybe a skil saw. It's amazingly fun to use. (Hypertherm 45) All I do is set up a fence out of thin wood or metal, clamp things down, and drag the torch across at a nice rate. You look down and your shoes are covered with metal filings instead of sawdust. Then a big piece falls down and hits the ground. The heat is so centralized that the metal doesn't heat much, unlike the acetylene torch I've had since I was a kid. An air compressor is used to blow (dried) air though the torch, which pushes the molten metal out of the hot zone. It makes a clean 1/8" kerf.

There are specialized tools you may find you will want at some point. For instance, when I was welding tubing, I found I needed a tubing cutter. These things cut a shape on the end of a tubing so that it can be easily welded to the side of another piece of tubing. I first bought the Harbor Freight tool, but gave it away in about a week. Now I have the Lowbuck tool - the same one that the fence companies use around here.

I mentioned I have an acetylene torch. I actually have a big one and a little one. I only use them now to bend steel. Once in awhile, I'll do some soldering on the house and find I can't get enough heat on something with a propane torch, so I'll drag out the little acetylene torch. It's possible to melt copper into a pool, so you do have to be careful when you soft solder with acetylene.

I keep thinking I need a metal lathe and a bridgeport mill, but I know my wife would never go for it. Maybe I can convince her she needs to raise ostriches or something? :-) And a forge, and a hammer, and a huge anvil, and a . . .

Larry

Larry Gipson
08-29-2012, 2:36 AM
I forgot. Don't set your foot on fire! Don't ask me how I know that . . .

:-)

Regards,
Larry

ray hampton
08-29-2012, 6:36 AM
I forgot. Don't set your foot on fire! Don't ask me how I know that . . .

:-)
LarryRegards,

do you smell something burning ? , I turn the torch off and remove my boot in 15 seconds because I got a burn on my foot

Ole Anderson
08-30-2012, 8:26 AM
As far as an angle grinder, I have a 4.5" Skil Professional and my son has a 6" Metabo. Hands down the Metabo is the better. Seems to be the choice of the job site ironworkers. Soft start and tons of power, but the big difference is the extra diameter of the wheel. The 6" lasts so much longer for cutting. Recently we got a few Dewalt 0.040" thick cutoff wheels at Lowe's and they seem to last forever. I now use the Skil mostly with a knotted wire cup brush for rust and spatter removal. I have a 3 hp Kalamazoo 10" chop saw with a thin abrasive blade for simple cutoff work.

Larry Gipson
08-30-2012, 2:24 PM
do you smell something burning ?


I was concentrating on getting a nice weld one day, welding outside. I thought "jeepers, the sun is really hot today on my foot." Then I thought "now my leg is hot too". About then I looked down and my pant leg was on fire. Nice. Stuck my foot in a bucket of water, then finished the job with wet pants and shoes. It's funny. When you have that mask on and your concentrating, the world can just go away . . . until it drags you back.

They sell leather spats and things to prevent this. I just am too darned hard headed to buy them.

I lost a little hair that day, but no real burn. I can still move pretty quickly when I have to. :-)

The most painful experience with hot metal occurred when I was soft soldering on a project when I was a kid. (high school age). Molten solder dropped down into my shoe, burned through the sock, which held it against my skin until it hardened. I still have the scar. It's probably why I weld with a bucket of water around. Not only can I temper metal, but I can put my foot out if I need to.

This is my tubing notcher: http://www.lowbucktools.com/notcher.html
These notchers are supposed to be good if you want a more precise bimetal hole saw based tool: http://www.jd2.com/t-notchercomparison.aspx

Regards,
Larry

Larry Gipson
08-30-2012, 2:32 PM
As far as an angle grinder, I have a 4.5" Skil Professional and my son has a 6" Metabo. Hands down the Metabo is the better. Seems to be the choice of the job site ironworkers. Soft start and tons of power, but the big difference is the extra diameter of the wheel. The 6" lasts so much longer for cutting. Recently we got a few Dewalt 0.040" thick cutoff wheels at Lowe's and they seem to last forever. I now use the Skil mostly with a knotted wire cup brush for rust and spatter removal. I have a 3 hp Kalamazoo 10" chop saw with a thin abrasive blade for simple cutoff work.

I never thought about angle grinders with cutoff wheels being dangerous until a guy came over a few weeks ago to buy I tool I had for sale. He couldn't move a few fingers on his right hand. Apparently a cutoff wheel exploded and pieces went deep into his hand. He almost lost those fingers, but instead lost dexterity. I usually use my welding gloves with the grinders, but not a face mask. I might have to rethink that.

The soft start idea sounds great. After a few hours with a grinder, the jerk can be really annoying.

Larry

ray hampton
08-30-2012, 3:59 PM
I never thought about angle grinders with cutoff wheels being dangerous until a guy came over a few weeks ago to buy I tool I had for sale. He couldn't move a few fingers on his right hand. Apparently a cutoff wheel exploded and pieces went deep into his hand. He almost lost those fingers, but instead lost dexterity. I usually use my welding gloves with the grinders, but not a face mask. I might have to rethink that.

The soft start idea sounds great. After a few hours with a grinder, the jerk can be really annoying.

Larry

the CUT-OFF wheels will burn right thru a welding glove or any glove except M A I L ,so keep both hands on the handle, DO YOU KNOW how far a piece of the wheel will travel when the wheel explode, the guard will not protect you unless you are in the right place

raul segura
09-03-2012, 4:57 PM
If you go to the Lincoln welder site they have plethora of info. on all welding and how too.

"Aluminum" This is considered soldering, but can be stronger than base metal... . Aluminum weld rods", 8 pack @ H.P.
Can use map torch depending on how much heat is drawn into base metal. Solder a beer can to 1/4 in. Alum. Base metal will give out before weld/solder, if worked right.
Ox / Ac. is easier more controllable on tubing or muffler pip, less burn through, but takes time to learn, my experience.
You can also get tips for a torch and switch to ox / propane for, silver brazing, heating, forging / blackening, at a quarter the cost, "no acetylene".
If keeping to a budget and no room for a hole new set of tooling Id go for the Oxy/Ac. large tanks if not having to get around.Nothing worse than getting stuck in the middle w/o fuel.
Just a last thought, Good luck !

Kent E. Matthew
09-09-2012, 7:13 PM
I have used a couple of these 110 machines at work. One runs on 110 or 220. Honestly performance on 110 is not that swift. The bottle neck that I have observed is input with these 110 machines. You need to find at least a 20 amp circuit. A 30 would be better. These machines are next to worthless running on anything less. Get a good quality heavy guage extention cord too. Or no extention cord would be better.

Mac McQuinn
09-12-2012, 4:27 PM
While a 110V machine is never going to have the capabilities of a 220V, IMO there is certainly a need due to all the 110V receptacles in a garage. I have a 20 year old SP100 Lincoln I've used quite heavily through the years. I have the optional 20amp corded plug for mine which is plugged into a dedicated 20 Amp outlet and as long as you work within the machine's potential, it performs very well. When using the flux core wire process, I have no problem welding 3/16" rusty plate with one pass with a excellent penetration weave pattern showing through from the backside while welding. Selection of wire, machine settings, new contact tip and excellent ground connection all make for a good set-up. Wear that welding respirator, welding fumes are nothing to take lightly.

Mac



I have used a couple of these 110 machines at work. One runs on 110 or 220. Honestly performance on 110 is not that swift. The bottle neck that I have observed is input with these 110 machines. You need to find at least a 20 amp circuit. A 30 would be better. These machines are next to worthless running on anything less. Get a good quality heavy guage extention cord too. Or no extention cord would be better.