Warning: Avanti saw blade danger from Home Depot

[Kevin Gregoire]

i got this email from lumberjocks this morning warning of a saw blade so please check it out.


I joined this web so that I can voice my recent experience with a 10" 24 tooth Avanti (no other name) ripping blade purchased at Home Depot in the yellow plastic package. After using it only on fresh lumber 2x4's and such, I noticed there were 2 teeth missing. I showed this to my co worker, and mentioned that I thought the teeth were comming off. Shortly after that I was ripping a 2x4 and felt something hit my arm and it left a big welt. Inspection revealed that now there are 3 teeth missing. I removed the blade and did not use it again. This blade is extremely dangerous, and I think that other people should be aware of the dangers involved in this brand.

[Richard Wolf]

Thanks for passing that on.

[Rick Lizek]

Isn't it a bit presumptuous to assume all blades from that series or manufacturer are defective????

[johnny means]

Of course non of us saw this guy drop the b:rolleyes:lade while installing it:rolleyes: Really, IMO this post should be deleted. It goes beyond a statement of his experience to an indictment of an entire brand.

[scott spencer]

Isn't it a bit presumptuous to assume all blades from that series or manufacturer are defective????

I'd agree that it is presumptuous Rick, but I'm still glad to see a post against a cheap imitation product that's marketed in a way that I find disturbing. The knock off Avanti and Avanti Pro blades showed up in HD shortly after Freud discontinued their well regarded Avanti series in June 2009. The imitation blades are no longer made in Italy, have nothing in common with the original Freud Avanti designs, and no longer have any association with Freud, yet they retain a logo and font that's very similar to the former Freud version, and could easily mislead unsuspecting consumers into thinking that they're buying a reputable Freud Avanti blade. Aside from profiting on Freud's efforts, the blades are really poorly made, and I don't consider them suitable for fine woodworking.

Here's the original Freud Avanti 60T blade made in Italy:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/hewood/sawparts/Saw%20Blades/tk306-1.jpg


Here's the non-Freud Avanti 60T knock off made in China:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/hewood/sawparts/Saw%20Blades/avantichina.jpg

[Tony Joyce]

Thanks, Scott
Now that's information you can use. I for one didn't know this.

Thanks, Tony

[Peter Quinn]

My guess, Freud sold them the Avanti name, may not be a knock off. They may own it. Or maybe they are that unscrupulous. I've heard of carbide braise failures even on the best tooling, very scary but not a reason to pan an entire line. I remember an older post about the transition from Freud Avanti blades to Borg Avanti Blades. I'm thinking the only real value of this post is the side effect that it may make people aware that the Avanti line is no longer associated with Freud so they may make an informed decision about what they are buying.

[scott spencer]

There's never been any doubt in my mind that it's legal, but I don't believe it's ethical to make their new junk blades look like the higher quality Freuds.

[Rick Fisher]

I think that's pretty sleazy .. Borgs stoops a bit lower ..

[Van Huskey]

It is a caveat emptor world and we just live in it... The sad thing is the majority of people that probably use this blade don't wear eye protection...

[John Lanciani]

"After using it only on fresh lumber 2x4's and such, I noticed there were 2 teeth missing. I showed this to my co worker, and mentioned that I thought the teeth were comming off. Shortly after that I was ripping a 2x4 and felt something hit my arm and it left a big welt. Inspection revealed that now there are 3 teeth missing."

So this guy continued to use a damaged blade and he thinks that the brand is extremely dangerous. I think his decision making skills are the real issue here. I've had blades that everyone here would consider "premium" lose teeth for no apparent reason. Stuff happens. This is just one of the reasons that there is an overhead guard (I use a Brett Guard) on my saw for EVERY cut.

[Jacob Reverb]

Sounds like another good reason not stand behind the saw with ANY blade. http://d26ya5yqg8yyvs.cloudfront.net/nod.gif

[John Coloccia]

As far as I know, Freud still uses the Avanti name to sell biscuit joiners and a handful of other tools. I find it impossible to believe that they would license the name for use by anyone else if they're still using it themselves. Even if they did sell/license the name, clearly it's still dishonest to use it on a completely different product of much lower quality.

Well, one more reason not to shop at HD....as if I needed any more reasons. I tell you, the number of retailers I allow myself to shop at has shrunk dramatically in the last year, yet it feels like my selection of products AND quality has gone up as I seek out better suppliers.

[scott vroom]

Chinese knock-off products are nothing new and anyone that spots a top of the line blade selling for $25 should be immediately suspicious of the quality; anyone with any sense should consider the phrases "You get what you pay for" and "caveat emptor" before hitting the checkout stand.

The knucklehead that continued using the blade after suspecting teeth were coming loose must have a few loose screws himself.

[jason thigpen]

I think the bigger issue is not how it lost those first two teeth, but why he continued to use the blade after noticing they were missing. I'm sure just those two teeth threw the blade off balance, probably helping the third tooth come free.

[Brian Kent]

Chinese knock-off products are nothing new and anyone that spots a top of the line blade selling for $25 should be immediately suspicious of the quality; anyone with any sense should consider the phrases "You get what you pay for" and "caveat emptor" before hitting the checkout stand.

The knucklehead that continued using the blade after suspecting teeth were coming loose must have a few loose screws himself.

Correction: $13.95. The 5 star rating on the Home Depot website comes from one person, who says, "Sorry - don't have much to say about this - bought it for my brother while I was paying for some other supplies for a project he is doing for me - I have no clue how good it is."
Best Review EVER!

[Myk Rian]

Isn't it a bit presumptuous to assume all blades from that series or manufacturer are defective????

+1 Being Henny Penny due to one bad blade is a little rough.

[glenn bradley]

This has been causing confusion for the last 3 years or so. As Scott points out, back in mid-2009 Freud discontinued using the Avanti name for those particular thin kerf blades. I was all excited when I saw a 2-pack special of the Avanti blades (which I had used with great results) at a very low sale price. A quick inspection revealed that these were not the Freud blades I had experience with and so they stayed behind. I do inwardly scowl every time I walk by them at the BORG though ;).

As to ripping "fresh" 2x4's (that's kinda like "fresh" wine :D) on a tablesaw . . . I won't go into the "how do I cause kickback on purpose?" discussion but, running an untrue reference surface, like the face of a 2x4, across a talbesaw while trapping the other untrue edge between the blade and the fence has got to be right up there on the list. The teeth weren't the only thing missing for this gentleman. Basic safety prevents frivolous lawsuits. :rolleyes:

[phil harold]

I remember when harbor freight was in it infancy and I bought some skill-saw carbide blades first time I used the blade the tip on one came of and hit me in the forehead. The sales man called me afterwards asking how I like the inexpensive blade. I told him about it losing a tooth and his response was well they are cheap enough you can replace the whole blade, I responded by telling them I have two eyeballs and they are expensive to replace...

I dont understand why after losing two teeth you would still use the damaged sawblade

[James Baker SD]

I agree with the others about the dangers (and senselessness) of using a known damaged blade. I dropped a good Forrest blade on a concrete floor and popped two teeth off. I wouldn't have dreamed of putting that blade back on the saw. I sent it to Forrest and they replaced the missing teeth, checked all the others for damage and sharpened it as well. When it came back I felt safe putting it on the saw again (while wearing a full face shield that I always wear).

James

[Matt Meiser]

Even if they did sell/license the name, clearly it's still dishonest to use it on a completely different product of much lower quality.

There's a long list of people to indict if that's the issue.

Craftsman...
Maytag...
Cub Cadet...
Any number of electronics brands...

[Andrew Joiner]

. I do inwardly scowl every time I walk by them at the BORG though ;).



Glenn,I inwardly scowl a lot there as well. Nice to know I'm not alone.

[scott vroom]

C'mon now guys, wipe those scowls from your face...lol. HD sells LOTS of junk to be sure, but they've saved my arse many a time when I've run out of construction mat'ls on the job site.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Rich's Rule - if it's a circular blade and it's from Home Depot, don't buy it unless it's red.

[Andrew Joiner]

Scott, That's when I outwardly smile at HD. I related to Glenn's inward scowl comment with a laugh. I used to walk into "home centers" when they first started in the 70's with a slight inward attitude of " I'm a pro, you guys are all amateurs". I got over it.

[dennis thompson]

I can't believe the criticism of the OP, he's just pointing out what could be a safety issue. To my mind he's doing the right thing. Scott's comments about Avanti are news to me & most helpful, without the original OP comment I'd never have known.
Dennis

[Clarence Miller]

thanks for the heads up Scott, I hadn't heard this.

[Tom Walz]

Why not use a blade with only 2 teeth missing?

Happens all the time.

As far as an indictment of the entire brand, maybe it is valid. One reason for tip, loss is improperly prepared carbide. If they are using carbide that is no processed properly then they may be doing it over the whole brand.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Welp - if anybody should know about carbide it would be Tom..
If anybody should know about different saw blades, it would be Scott..
(http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?61724-As-The-Saw-Blade-Turns-(chart-update)

[Mike OMelia]

Hmmm. I did not know about the Avanti name thing. That item has been logged into my memory. As for the teeth, I did not know they could come off. Chuck that up to never seeing it, or never hearing about it. I will pay more attention to that in the future. All in all, I found this to be a useful thread... no sense in knocking the messanger.

[Matt McColley]

well I learned something usefull today..... Avanti = NOT

too many other brands out there with competitive prices to bother with these guys.

I have a blade with a missing tooth.... I use it on my SCMS when I'm cutting 2x for construction jobs...

[Myk Rian]

I can't believe the criticism of the OP, he's just pointing out what could be a safety issue.

The issue being the OP suspected it was losing teeth, and continued to use it.

[Trinna Langdon]

The issue being the OP suspected it was losing teeth, and continued to use it.

I have this 60 tooth blade I have been trying to cut with and could not figure out what I was doing wrong with ripping wood. The wood kept pulling away from the fence. I thought it was me, then yesterday I was ripping some Hard Maple and by the time I got to the back end of the 4' length of board it was not even toughing the fence anywhere! So the problem was getting worse. Months ago wood was moving away from the fence at the back of the blade. So I realized yesterday this is not me. I put on an older blade and wow! What a difference. The maple sailed right through the blade hug the fence, no problem. Now I see this discussion. These blades are dangerous!

[George Gyulatyan]

I have this 60 tooth blade I have been trying to cut with and could not figure out what I was doing wrong with ripping wood.
My question is, why would you be ripping wood with a 60 tooth blade? :eek:

[Alan Green]

When at KMS Tools today I grabbed an "in-store special": a 2-pack of 10" 60T Avanti Pro blades for $25. I haven't tried them yet cuz when I got home and started doing some research I found a ton of mostly negative and some conflicting comments on these blades. So I sent Freud Canada an email asking for clarification. Following is my email and their response.

Hello I am hoping you can clear up something that is confusing me regarding your 10" saw blades. Today I purchased a 2 pack of Avanti Pro saw blades from KMS Tools. It would appear they are manufactured by Freud. I also found Home Depot sells the same package, also apparently from Freud. However after doing some research it seems that these are NOT manufactured by Freud- you discontinued this line in 2009. Additionally these blades are made in China, not Italy. Can you tell me the real story? If you don't make these blades then Home Depot and KMS have no business misleading consumers and selling them as a Freud product.

Good day. I do understand your confusion, but here is the explanation to this Avanti. The Avanti brand was creates in 2002- 2003 days for the Lowes company in the USA, it was to be their high price point blade in a chrome finish and yes it was manufactured in Italy. In 2009 we pulled the Avanti brand from Lowes US and Canada, the USA does not sell any Freud Product to Lowes any longer, but in Canada we still sell them blades under the Freud TK brand in a chrome finish and still made in Italy. Since we still own the brand name Avanti we have assigned it to our entry level blades Avanti that are sold at Home Depot, and our mid price point blades that are labeled Avanti Pro these blades have a blue rim on them, and yes both KMS and Home Depot sell them. The Avanti and the Avanti Pro blades are made in a Bosch owned factory in China with Bosch quality control, and yes they are not manufactured by Freud. Bosch is our parent company that’s how we got the blades. All Freud, Diablo, Freud TK, and all Freud Industrial blades are all and will continue to be made in Italy. I hope this explains it for you and if you have any other questions .....

[Rick Fisher]

Doesn't take long to wreck a brand name ..

[Curt Harms]

Alan, thank you for posting that. It clears away murk and confusion.

[Alan Lightstone]

Hmm. Didn't know Bosch owned Freud.

[Matt Meiser]

That was fairly recently.

[Dan Hahr]

I hope the folks running the Freud company are not the same as the guy that replied to the email question.

That looks like a lot of the Chinese product instructions I've seen.

Hate to see decent companies going down the drain...
Dan