Need some rasp help

[Dustin Keys]

I like curves. As I'm gearing up for the projects I want to tackle this fall (it's 108* here today, will be closer to 120* in my shop), it's clear to me that I'm going to need some rasps. I have a number of other tools to purchase this year, not to mention lots of wood, so I'm trying to avoid spending $350+ on Auriou rasps if possible. I haven't used rasps much, but I have always been under the impression that they are tools you use up and ultimately replace which is another reason I don't want to spend that kind of money on them.

Chris Schwarz and others recommend a basic set of a cabinet rasp, modeller's rasp, and a rat tail to get started. I see uses for all of those in the work that I want to do. I'm quite lost as to what to purchase between all the available options though because I don't have much experience to use as a guide. I'm making a list of what to purchase right now in a low cost vs. high cost format. I know the high side when it comes to rasps is the Auriou's at around $350, but I'm not sure about what I could do as a low cost alternative or what the tradeoffs might be.

After reading up on it a lot, here's what I'm considering so far:
Cabinet rasp substitute: Shinto (just the blade, I'm not a fan of the handle) $23
Modeller's rasp: Iwasaki 6" half round extreme fine cut carving file $33
Rattail: Gramercy 6" $36 (although it's currently out of stock so I may have to find a substitute if it doesn't come back soon)
Total: $92

Of course I could spend less, but I'm trying to get quality tools. I'm not sure that my list above is appropriate or there may be other solid low cost options I haven't considered. So far, I've been looking at Auriou, Gramercy, Iwasaki, and Dragon (Stewmac) options. I've spent some time looking for used rasps that are still in good condition, but came up empty.

So my question for those of you with rasp experience is: Is the list above a good low cost option for getting started with rasps or are there better choices available that I should be considering?

D

[Bob Lang]

I would start with one good quality rasp, not too coarse, not too fine, not too big, not too small. I don't have any experience with the Dragon rasps from Stew Mac, but they look like they might be a good value. I've used the others. I wouldn't worry about wearing one out unless you're rasping all day, every day. If money is a real concern, I would recommend one of Joel's, the 9 1/4", 11 tpi. It's a good value and performance is close to the Auriou and Liogier. The Iwasakis are neat tools, but I mostly use the flat ones for tweaking mortise and tenon joints. They are a bit grabby on curves, but I've been spoiled by the French rasps.

Use that one rasp for a while and most of your questions about what others you need will become apparent. You'll find yourself wishing it were bigger and coarser for this task and smaller and finer for another. Someone else's experience won't do you much good, and you don't need to buy a "set" to get started.

I think this is one of the great barriers to learning how to use hand tools, the notion that you need "the recommended basic set". Without experience, you won't be able to tell the difference between one tool and another, and having too many choices available when you start out can keep you from developing the basic skills. You won't be able to tell if you're using the wrong tool in a given situation, of if it's you.

Bob Lang

[John Coloccia]

The Dragon rasps are very nice. I have a couple, and I'm happy, however the extreme taper is not great for defining shoulders and things like that. It's a marvelous guitar rasp, but not ideal for cabinet work IMHO.

Logier makes a world class rasp and they're pretty reasonably priced, I think. Rasps are not where you want to cut corners, however. Buy the best rasps you can afford. They last a good long time and you'll never regret it. That's my opinion, anyway.

[Jim Koepke]

I have no experience ordering from Frog Tools:

http://www.frogwoodtools.com/index.htm

One small thing that bothers me at their site is there isn't a selection for previous page with the on line catalog.

Other than that I have been tempted to order some of their riffler rasps.

I have a Brazilian made Nicholson #50. It works okay, but no competition for my Auriou 15 & 13 grain rasps.

I have some Italian riffler rasps and they do come in handy at times. Most of them were bought used. Problem with used rasps is you do not know until you see them if they were abused or not.

jtk

[David Weaver]

If money matters, I would suggest one half round rasp, it doesn't even need to be a great one - one of the coarse LV hand cut rasps would be fine (I think they're about $30 or something). And I would complement that with coarse/bastard double cut files from ebay or home depot or whatever. One in half round, and a round one.

You'll lose some versatility by not having a tapered end on the files, but you'll have to find out from experience if that even matters. Cleaning up work done by the LV rasp could also be done by shaped scrap with coarse sandpaper wrapped around it.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I sent an email to TFWW asking their suggestions for getting started if using their rasps - they sent me a fairly detailed, thoughtful reply . . . and I seem to have deleted the email. Which is too bad, because I finally have some money!

I'd say start with one decent, all around rasp (and I'll leave it up to others to make a suggestion in that matter) and go from there - eventually you'll want more of course, but having one of something like this lets you kind of see where your work wants to take you. Don't be afraid to set some work down until you get the tools you need in the mail, but I find for tools like this, if spending money is an issue, it's a lot easier to figure out where my needs are first. Finer shaping tools are going to be a lot more dependent on what you're doing with them - it's pretty evident that you probably need a jack, jointer and smoother if that's how you're approaching the wood - but the rasps I want for shaping a guitar neck are very different than what a saw handle maker wants, and probably different from a guy using them on cabriole legs. And the guy using them on cabriole legs he's band-sawed away most of the waste on might want different rasps than the guy who's knocked away most of the waste with gouges.

Also on the rasps front, think about how you're getting to the step before rasps, and what shapes you're making - if I'm doing something like a decorative profile on the end of a board, if I'm using a scroll saw and can get quite close, I might skip to something finer, or even files. If I'm paring the shape out with incannel gouges, and have the right sweeps to do what I want, I might not do anything, or maybe just a light sanding/scraping.

I'd certainly like having rasps when working compound curves (like guitar necks).

But as nice as rasps are to have, don't forget about edge tools. I've seen some folks spend forever rasping away at something to shape a complex shape. Don't be afraid to remove a lot of wood quickly with a saw, and hack away with gouges, chisels, and drawknives to remove a lot of wood. Rasps are great, but they can be sloooooww if you're using them to make the shape rather than refine it.

As far as rasps being disposable - my understanding is you can get them chemically resharpened. Thing is, if you get nice rasps and take care of them, they'll last a long, long time. I'm not convinced the hobbyist is really going to "use up" a rasp in a short period of time. They aren't going to last forever, but I wouldn't make replacement be the issue that keeps me from spending a bit more. Not saying that justifies the Auriou rasps cost (you have to decide that for yourself) but I certainly wouldn't go the hardware store route on the assumption that these are tools you'll use up any time soon.

[george wilson]

I recently examined the rasps at Harbor Freight,which are just a few dollars each. Their teeth look hand cut,but are not as tall as ,say,Nicholson rasps. They are broad(about 1/16") for their height(less than 1/32"),but they look like they'd cut o.k. if you want a cheap tool. They have flat and half round,though I don't think they taper down to a point(I didn't remove them from the package,which concealed their tips).

At least,a HF file I tested was fully hardened.

[glenn bradley]

It all boils down to what works for you. I have the Shinto with the straight handle and find is surprisingly useful. I have an old Nicholson 49 and round rasp. I also have a finer rasp which is a Pferd IIRC. Like quality sandpaper, a good progression of rasps will take your shaping from start to near-finish in pretty short order.

[Dustin Keys]

Thank you all for the help. Buying one good middle-of-the-road rasp and seeing what I need from there hadn't really crossed my mind, but that sounds like a very smart way to approach it. I'm more comfortable with this knowing that I'm unlikely to wear them out.

I had not seen the hand cut rasps from Lee Valley, so thanks for throwing those into the mix as they may be just what I need. I do have a useful collection of files already that I've picked up over the last few years that I use frequently, but I don't have any rasps except for a $2 job from a cheap tool store (it's ugly, but it will hog off a lot of wood if you find yourself in a situation where you need to - DAMHIKT).

You've all given me a lot of good information to work with, thanks!
D

[Mark Wyatt]

For about $200, here is a great set from Liogier:

http://www.hand-stitched-rasp-riffler.com/tradition/woodworking/rasps/small-starter-set.html

Mark

[Prashun Patel]

I vote for the Dragon rasps that John C mentioned. For general work, they're extremely versatile. I use the coarse one way more than the fine. Apart from being well made and aggressive, the design fits me well: the tapered end gets into tight spots, the half round on one is great for concave curves; the flat back is broad enough for flats.

I've had mine sharpened by Boggs, and I have to say, they were as good out of the box as they were after his tuning.

[lowell holmes]

Some have answered with much more knowledge than I, but the following is my take on the subject.

My first rasps were my fathers and they seemed okay, but nothing to be excited about.

I decided I needed a new rasp and ordered a Nicholson #49 - still nothing to be excited about.

I had heard about the Aeriou and when they were available again I ordered one from Joel. It is a Cabinet Maker's rasp 225X8X5.5 Grain 10. It is a remarkable tool and produces a rapid smooth cut. IIRC the No 49 cost about $50 and as far as I'm concerned a total waste of money. I never use it.

I also bougt a saw handle rasp from Joel, and it performs as well as the Aeriou. Joel's rasps cost me a lot of money, but I consider them a bargain and the cheaper rasp much more expensive at alf the price.

[Jim Koepke]

I also bougt a saw handle rasp from Joel, and it performs as well as the Ariou. Joel's rasp cost me a lot of money, but I consider them a bargain and the cheaper rasp much more expensive at alf the price.

Tools that can't do the job they were made to do are always the most expensive.

jtk

[Joel Moskowitz]

Dustin,
The rattail rasps came in a few days ago. I was supposed to handle them today but I got bogged down getting some new festool stuff online. But before I left we set up the tools and tomorrow am I should get handles on the rattails and everything else that came in. Why am I doing this? Not someone else in the workshop, everyone is on summer vacation so I get to do a little of everything. Incidentally just remember if you buy anything from us and you don't like it just return it we pay return shipping.
Joel
Tfww