Cabinets or Tile install first?

[Jefferey Scott]

Hi everyone, I'll be installing ceramic tile over a concrete slab in our kitchen during the impending remodel. Should I install the ceramic first then base cabinets on top of that, or cabinets first then tile up to and around the base cabinets. I'll most likely be using adjustable leg levelers on the base cabs if that makes a difference in your opinion. I'd like to hear both sides of this story and reasons why. I can see pros and cons to either method.

Thanks!

[scott vroom]

Hi everyone, I'll be installing ceramic tile over a concrete slab in our kitchen during the impending remodel. Should I install the ceramic first then base cabinets on top of that, or cabinets first then tile up to and around the base cabinets. I'll most likely be using adjustable leg levelers on the base cabs if that makes a difference in your opinion. I'd like to hear both sides of this story and reasons why. I can see pros and cons to either method.

Thanks!

The tile guy will always want to install the tile first...fewer precision cuts required. The cabinet guys will often want to install the cabs first....they don't have to worry about soiling freshly laid tile/grout.

Assuming you're doing both yourself, it may make sense to set the tile first, particularly since you're using leg levelers vs shims or pre-built bases.

Some will argue that tiling first makes sense in the event you should change your cabinet footprint in the future without replacing the tile.

If you do end up setting the cabs first then you'll need to consider the edge tile when designing your kick plates....you want to make sure the edge tile is covered and hidden from view when the kick plates are in place.

[joe milana]

+1 for everything Scott says, 'cept the last line. Not sure what he means. It's WAY easier to tile with the room empty. Esp. when there is an island involved. The added cost of the extra tile is insignificant vs. the extra labor to cut & fit around everything.

[David Hawxhurst]

i agree with scott. do the tile first then the cabinets. this how my house was done flooring then cabinets.

[scott vroom]

+1 for everything Scott says, 'cept the last line. Not sure what he means. It's WAY easier to tile with the room empty. Esp. when there is an island involved. The added cost of the extra tile is insignificant vs. the extra labor to cut & fit around everything.

If you set the cabs first then you'll end up with edge tile all around the perimeter of the cabs....the cut to fit pieces. What I was saying is that you need to think ahead to make sure your toe kick plates cover the cut tile edges that face up to the cab fronts/ends. Common sense stuff but one of those things that if you forget, you're screwed. Hope this clarifies it :)

[Van Huskey]

Tile is easier to do the entire floor, with hardwood the difference is very small. With ceramic the cost is also low for the extra tile. So for ceramic tile I would do the entire floor then set the cabinets.

[Jay Jolliffe]

There are a few things to think about...What tile are you using? Is it flat or a hand made tile that are not flat. Do you want debris going under the cabinet where the cabinet meets the tile. If you install the cabinet on top that's something you have to worry about unless you calk against the tile. If you set the cabinet first you don't have to worry about debris going under it. If the person doing the tile knows what he's doing there should be no problem cutting the tile against the cabinet leaving a grout line space around the cabinet.....Yes it's easier doing the whole floor first but I think it looks better installing the tile around instead of under the cabinet. I've tiled plenty of floors & I'd rather tile around the cabinets....It's a more professional looking job.....Just my .02:)

[Kevin Bourque]

Tiling first is sooooo much easier and faster.

[Ed Hazel]

Tiling first is sooooo much easier and faster.

Except now 20 years later my wife wants to rip out the tile that I installed before therefore under the cabinets.

[Frank Carnevale]

I did he cabinets first then the tile. I just figured I would replace the tile floor before I ever replace the cabinets. Then again, it probably wouldn't matter as long as the tile grout line ended just before a cabinet. In case you ever want to replace the tile, you wouldn't have to undo your floor cabinets

[Jeff Duncan]

I always prefer the floor be done before the cabinets....and I'm the cabinet guy:D I have cardboard and rosen paper to protect floors so soiling isn't an issue. My favorite is when you try to remove a dishwasher or stove that was installed directly on the subfloor with the hardwood flooring running right up to the front of it:eek: Yup that's a bunch of fun.

Anyway it's personal preference but I'd do the floor first every time.

good luck,
JeffD

[Lee Schierer]

Tile first. It's easier, it makes the installation of appliances easier. You can even out an uneven floor a bit with the tile making cabinet installation easier. It will also make the counter top the right height above the floor.

Unless the tile is highly contoured any dust that gets under the cabinets won't bee seen until the cabinets are removed years from now, no caulking is needed.

[Peter Kelly]

Set the cabinets first. Much easier to anchor islands and peninsulas to the subfloor without the tile there. Fewer square feet of tile to install as well.

[Jefferey Scott]

Thanks for all the responses guys. I think I'm leaning towards putting in the floor first at this point. I see several good reasons to. The only reason I can see not to is the extra expense, but I don't think that will be a big problem. If you have an opinion, please chime in!

Thanks!

[Peter Kelly]

Except now 20 years later my wife wants to rip out the tile that I installed before therefore under the cabinets.

If ever there was a number 1 reason to tile after installing the cabinets this would be it.

Tiling afterwards also gives you the option of shifting the grid around after the cabinets go in which would allow you to minimize the odd looking skinny tiles that could end up against the toe area.

[joe milana]

Although it's possible, depending on how the tiles were installed, and what's under them. Removing tile, working around existing cabinetry, is almost an unrealistic proposition. IMO.

Suppose they are set over cement board, that is screwed every 4-6" & mortared to the subfloor. You are going to be pulling the entire subfloor anyway.

If set over a slab, with quality thinset, your going to go at them with a chipping hammer, and what a mess you will have, and you better not slip, and you better cover every square inch of those cabinets with cardboard. Oh, then the grinding begins, to get every last bit of thinset off the slab...

At least today we have uncoupling membranes, which would make removing the tiles down the road much simpler, but you'd still have all that miserable prep work ahead of you.
All good reasons to pick a traditional tile that is appropriate to the architecture of the home, and will last as long as the rest of the kitchen.

[Peter Quinn]

I think there are good arguments for either case, some what depends on the specific situation. Make sure to consider the thickness the floor will add if running it under cabinets and check if this will affect any elevations in the plan (window trim, pot fillers, gas lines, exhaust vents, etc). Also encourage the tile guy to actually make the floor flat and not "ramp up" a bit as the tiles approach the wall. Last job I installed the sub floor was almost perfect before the tile guy got there, built up his mortar a bit around the walls, maybe he thought it was a shower stall and not a small kitchen? Made my job real fun to shim and scribe! But the home owners decided they wanted tiles under a banquette which went beneath a window, in case of future floor plan changes. Problem was the banquette back ran into a window sill seamlessly, I was told banquette was going in first and built accordingly, floor was now 5/8" higher, ramped into the corners and out of level. It was also pre finished, I had built in scribes and set it up to be leveled easily, but not to be shaved 5/8" over all or installed on a hill.

Honestly, I'd build the cabs with ladder kicks, install those first, tile up to them, buy a few boxes of extra tiles and throw them in the basement or a closet in case you ever want to rework the floor plan. Then you just have to drop in the cabs, scribe the ends, screw them to the walls. If there is an island I'd tile under that and drop it in later.

[Mike Cutler]

I am currently remodeling our kitchen and the cabinets went first, but!!!! I know all too well Jeff Duncan's position, so all of the appliances, dishwasher, and refrigerator are set to the same level as the floor will be.
I'd say either would be acceptable given different conditions. My choice was based on the cost of the bubinga flooring. That's a lot of $$$ to hide under cabinets. Some tile can also be too wickedly expensive to hide under cabints.
Whatever you do though, heed Jeff''s advice, and make sure that your appliances can be removed when you're done.

[scott vroom]

If you decide to install the cabs before the finished flooring, it's critical that you consider the vertical fit of your dishwasher!

If you make your cab bases the standard 34.5" tall, set them onto the sub floor and then install your the into the dishwasher opening you've just reduced the vertical height from 34.5" to ~34". Depending on the height of your dishwasher you may have a problem with the fit.

Whenever I do a job where the cabs are set first, I build the cabinet bases 35" tall (for tile) or 35 1/4 (for wood) to preserve the standard 34.5" finished vertical opening.

In the event you set the tile first, the poster that warned about the tile humping up at the wall was spot-on. To avoid this, use a 3' straight edge when setting the tile to ensure the tile remains planar right up to the wall.

Good luck!

[Steve Griffin]

This has got to be one one of the most common discussions I have with contractors--floors or cabinets first.

For tile, I really like setting just the toe kick bases first, as Peter suggested. Build and install separate bases with toe kicks. Tile guys tile too it and grout. Come back later and set cabinets. This gives everyone the easiest working conditions, and the only downside is splitting the cabinet installation.

[Mark Blum]

Honestly, I'd build the cabs with ladder kicks, install those first, tile up to them, buy a few boxes of extra tiles and throw them in the basement or a closet in case you ever want to rework the floor plan. Then you just have to drop in the cabs, scribe the ends, screw them to the walls.
This is how I'll be doing it in my current kitchen project.

[Mark Ashmeade]

My late father in law was a tile guy, and he reasoned that a good porcelain tile in a neutral color will outlast cabinets by a long way. He reckoned on 30-50 years for tile, 15-20 for cabinets. Makes sense to me.

[Mark W Pugh]

My favorite is when you try to remove a dishwasher or stove that was installed directly on the subfloor with the hardwood flooring running right up to the front of it:eek:
JeffD

I think this is the main reason to put the flooring down first. I can see trying to remove a broken dishwasher with the flooring installed after everything else, what a pain. How do you guys that lay the flooring after the cabinets deal with this? Do you install flooring under the dishwasher and just add this to your cabinet height calculations? Just trying to figure out what I'm going to do.

[Larry Edgerton]

Seems that my customers are the type that change their mind quite often, so I lean towards tiling first as a patch in the flooring is never invisible and getting a tile man back for a change is problematical. I have done it both ways.

Larry

[Dave Nanke]

With my current kitchen project I plan to put 1/2" plywood down where the base cabinets, islands, etc will be and tile around that. Doing this allows the cabinets to remain at the proper height relative to the finished floor, and also allows me to remain mindful of where the grout line will be relative to the toe kick. Should work fine as long as I don't forget to cut the plywood slightly smaller than the cabinet's footprint.

I might reconsider and also put tile under the island *just in case* something changes down the road. But I don't ever see not having base cabinets where those are going.

[Carl Beckett]

My kitchen did the tile as a remodel some years after the original cabinets were in.

Last year we wanted to replace the dishwasher.

Couldnt get it out.

I had to pry up the counter top (and risk breaking it) to gain the 1/2" clearance needed to get the dishwasher out and the new one in.