Design Considerations - Hollow Forms and Finials

[Glen Blanchard]

Hollow forms come in two flavors it seems - those with finials on top and those without. I find both beautiful, but am wondering what others consider when deciding whether or not to add a finial.

[Alan Trout]

I do not do many finials but have done a few. For me its starts at the design faze of the piece. I personally like to make forms without finials and that goes into the design criteria as I create the piece. Most of my pieces start with a sketch of the idea that then translates to the wood. It really boils down to personal taste. I have seen some forms that do not look finished without a finial and I have seen others that look like a finial was stuck on to say it had a finial, and it does not fit the form well.

If you notice I did not say that I do not like finials I do like them. On the right piece they are fantastic. It is just not my thing to make them even though I am capable. It really boils down to personal style. Some peoples pieces are finial centric such as Cindy Drozda etc. Others are not such as a Andy DiPietro which he really concentrates on the form. That is their style which has brought them success.

Alan

[neil mackay]

To large extent the shape of the blank effects my choice followed by what I would like to to turn. I often have something in mind then go looking for a suitable blank, with difficult or odd shape blanks these I leave till something is figured out.

[Jeff Myroup]

I think Alan summed it up very well.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Alan pretty much said it. It depends on the piece. I will look at them with and without a finial in a drawing.

[Scott Hackler]

I go through phases. In fact I have 2-3 HF that are almost done that won't get a finial. Usually I turn a HF with the idea that I will stick my sorta finial on it. My hollow forms aren't anything special. A lot of turners can make a properly shaped and proportioned HF. So I spent a conciderable amount of time (and wood!) creating that "signature" finial shape. I wanted something that could be recognized as "mine", even if it is only because of the finial. That being said, I will not "lock" myself into that particular design and find myself constantly experimenting. (that goes with forms too!).

[Steve Kubien]

It's really simple for me... If the piece will be an urn, it will have a lid and a finial, based on the taste and desires of my customer. If it won't be an urn, it won't have a finial because I think they are silly. Just my opinion.

[Paul Gallian]

I totally agree with Steve Kubien ---- Finials had their time which is now past! Most look silly and out of place and time... I have been afraid to say so but, Steve broke the ice for me..

Paul

[Steve bellinger]

Well if i'm making a HF my first thought is to make it to accomodate a finial. Don't always end up putting one on, but to ME most look unfinished with out one. Ofcorse like has been said, there's a bunch of folks that don't need them on there's. There just that good. Also i see a lot of carved pieces that there's no way i would even think of putting one on, as it would just take a way from there work.

[Mike Cruz]

I put my ear up to the wood and listen. Whatever the wood says, I obey.

[Glen Blanchard]

I put my ear up to the wood and listen. Whatever the wood says, I obey.

Hate to break this to you Mike, but there already IS a wood whisperer. :D

[Mike Cruz]

Oh, I don't talk to the wood...I just do what it says "or else"...:eek:

[Roger Chandler]

Well, Steve K. and Paul G. in their above posts may feel like finials are silly.............I do not, and I certainly do not think they are past their time either. A well designed finial adds artistic form to a piece and is an embellishment most people find attractive.

If a person is going for functional in a turning.........there are much more suited forms than a hollow form for most functional purposes. If display is the functional purpose..........then it is kinda like the peacock.........all that spread on the fan in the tail feathers is a lot of show for sure, but it is beautiful! That is the way a finial is as well!

[Mike Cruz]

Well, Steve K. and Paul G. in their above posts may feel like finials are silly.............I do not, and I certainly do not think they are past their time either. A well designed finial adds artistic form to a piece and is an embellishment most people find attractive.

If a person is going for functional in a turning.........there are much more suited forms than a hollow form for most functional purposes. If display is the functional purpose..........then it is kinda like the peacock.........all that spread on the fan in the tail feathers is a lot of show for sure, but it is beautiful! That is the way a finial is as well!

I have to admit, Roger, I couldn't have said it better, myself...

[Paul Gallian]

adds artistic form to a piece and is an embellishment most people find attractive.


Who did you survey to get say "most people find them attractive." anecdotal at best. My "Most' anecdotal evidence say most do not like them -- glad we are not the same and room for all but saying most is just wrong. If you only ask turners you may be correct but the public are not all turners nor are they all wood art lovers .

I am truly glad you like them and think they are an art form I just do not the things.

Paul

[Roger Chandler]

My comment was based on feedback I have gotten over the years. When it comes to display items, which in most cases a hollow form is a display piece.........the artistic value is a lot of times enhanced with a beautiful finial. Now, most people who are interested in wood items, seem to like utilitarian items like a bowl......that seems to be what I have observed as I interact with other turners who sell at craft fairs, etc............to each his own, and your mileage may indeed vary.

[Rick Markham]

Finials are like tuck no tuck, to each his own. Some forms look better with a finial (purely subjective) some don't. Sometimes I like them, sometimes I don't. The best things about finials is that they can be removed, and or replaced. All of my forms are made to stand alone without the finial should the new owner choose they don't like it. With the finial removed there is no evidence that there is something missing. I agree, they probably aren't the latest biggest fad. Art is art, I practice this art because it satisfies something in my soul, if the byproduct of that is that someone thinks my work is beautiful and loves it, then that is the icing on the cake.

Often times I think we focus too much on what other turners like or do, when turners aren't our customers. Point blank.

[Scott Hackler]

I think it also has a lot to do with the audience/customer of the turnings. Your less likely to see hollow forms with finials at craft shows because unless your craft fair is in Vale, CO..... the consumer attending the "show" (craft fair/show) are not the generally consumers of "art". Most craft fair attendees are budget and utilitarian minded. They want to buy things they can use, not just sit on a shelf for display.

Now on the opposite side, a gallery (expecially a higher end one)...is more likely to be populated with a greater percentage of finial topped, non utilitarian items. Why? Because the consumer of gallery items are generally shopping for "art" and not a utilitarian piece. The price point is also vastly different between the two venues.

Around here if you showed up at a craft fair with a fancy HF with finial and priced it properly (see $500 and up), you will likely be taking it home with you. One because of the price point, but I propose that the main reason is the consumer of that event. I know lots of turners that repeatably sell $1000+ pieces and a lot of them have finials. Those pieces sell because of the eye appeal of the WHOLE piece, including the finial.

I do agree, however, that some people place a finial on forms that just don't match. They actually detract from the piece. But a properly made and assembled piece can look a whole lot better WITH a finial, in my opinion. It all boils down to personal preference and WHO is being surveyed about whether they like finials or not.

Seems like the last AAW Symposium I attended (St Paul, last year) there were quite a few finials. Shoot, ask Cindy Drozda if she thinks she could still get $2500 for a piece if it didn't have a finial on it!!

[Rick Markham]

Scott, I think that is the absolute bottom line of the issue. It all comes down to the consumer and the market.

[Bill Wyko]

I think it really comes down to the look of the piece. If the finial lends to the look of the piece w/o making it look like an urn and it really compliments the piece, then by all means go for it. But if it makes it look like an urn and it's not an urn, I say stay away from it. I especially like the spiral finials but I've omly had time to make one so far. That really sucks too because I bought a bunch of tools to make them go easier. Now no time to do them.

[David DeCristoforo]

You might as well ask which is the better color, green or violet. All this discussion about whether it's art or utilitarian and what the "consumer" wants or will pay for is pointless. There is nothing "utilitarian" about 99% of hollow forms. They are, for the most part, not useful for anything except looking at. If you put a tight fitting lid on one, you can call it an urn and then it serves a purpose beyond simply being an attractive object. A finial neither adds or subtracts from it's "usefulness". The decision to add a finial has to be based solely on the design intent of the maker. The decision to buy it or not will be based solely on the ascetic sensibilities of the "consumer".

[neil mackay]

I agree with the last three comments all three offer good sound reasoning here.

The idea that one thing has come and gone or this is the new shape is somewhat limiting to the artist. Personal choice will always intervene in the artist and the consumer and at the end of the day what the public wants is a yard for all of us.


My comment was based on feedback I have gotten over the years.

And at least with the finial we can remove it with no great hassle and this is important. Sometimes I have made several finials while trying get one that 'works' and on occasion ended up with no finial


Finials are like tuck no tuck, to each his own. Some forms look better with a finial (purely subjective) some don't. Sometimes I like them, sometimes I don't. The best things about finials is that they can be removed, and or replaced.





This is pretty well where its at for me too.
I try not to be tied down certain shapes and forms, nor hold one over the other as perferred or favourite. Like em all when there done and move onto the next one.


The decision to add a finial has to be based solely on the design intent of the maker. The decision to buy it or not will be based solely on the ascetic sensibilities of the "consumer