Raw aluminum shaper fence plates staining maple door parts

[Peter Quinn]

I added a used shaper to my shop last month and I'm working it into my process with a small door job. It came with 3/4" thick solid aluminum fence plates the previous owner had made by a machine shop. These I like very much, but they are leaving stains on the hard maple I am presently using. Anyone have any tricks to seal raw aluminum to keep this from happening? I've used other aluminum fences that didn't do this but I believe they were anodized?

[Mike Heidrick]

Tings I would consider:

Send them to get anodized.
Cover the face with wood.
Try waxing them.
Change the faces out.

[Stephen Cherry]

maybe formica?

[Ole Anderson]

Add a layer of slick tape available at most woodworker supply places.

[pat warner]

"Anyone have any tricks to seal raw aluminum "
***********************
Work needs some sanding after routing & milling.
A very light sanding will remove aluminum smear too.

[Peter Quinn]

"Anyone have any tricks to seal raw aluminum "
***********************
Work needs some sanding after routing & milling.
A very light sanding will remove aluminum smear too.

Agreed, but it doesn't always get it! On a set of doors I'll sand every part prior to assembly and several more times prior to finish. But the last job (done on different shaper) was almost 1000LF of base molding for a contractor, i sure wouldn't want to hand sand that, and they really don't do it in the field prior to install.

Im going to look into getting them anodized, if that's too expensive I might try a 2K urathane sealer, or maybe the Formica, that's a real slick and tough solution I hadn't thought of. I have some 3M 88 adhesive that might hold it in use but let me peel it of when it needs changing. I love the solid aluminum plates, they are rigid and easy to use, perfect except for the smudging

[Sam Layton]

Peter,

I think I would try an auto rubbing compound to clean all of the oxidation off, and then a good wax job.

Sam

[Joe Calhoon]

Peter,
I made a bead removal fixture for the shaper out of aluminum and it marked like you describe. It is painfull to sand those marks off. I think Formica might be a good solution. I tried waxing and coating with lacquer but that did not work. Anodizing would be best but don't know what is involved with that.
Joe

[Erik Loza]

Peter, we don't use anodization on our fence plates. The fresh, newly machined ones don't seem to create this issue but I have had older/somewhat abused Alu plates leave the grey marks on wood, so understand your issue. I would try Sam L's suggetion of polishing the plates with some rubbing compound (the best I have found is an auto industry paste by "Mother's", for polishing billet wheels, with a microfiber towel...) and then waxing them thoroughly. If that didn't work, then I might just make some wood plates. Anodization, of course, would be perfect but I am just thinking of stuff which could be done on the cheap.

Best of luck with it,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Peter Quinn]

So the consensus is clean them well and wax first. I'll try that. I did wax them pretty well but really didn't clean them particularly well first, so maybe I just created a slurry that is now rubbing off little by little. I wonder if I can run these through the wide belt then polish them with my micro-mesh kit? I've never tried wet sanding aluminum, don't really want to ruin that micro mesh either. They aren't giving those disks away. We also have a wire brush machine at work, used mostly for grain distressing, but I'm told they are actually designed to produce a brushed finish on metal parts and sheets? We have a super tough 2K urethane at work used to coat flooring (rated for commercial use), not sure if that will really handle the wear of a shaper fence or even key to the aluminum? Its water based, some of those can't be sprayed through aluminum guns due to corrosion, not sure how the plates will react.

I used to just double stick tape some waxed MDF to the aluminum fences on my delta shaper. I think those were anodized, but they had these annoying reliefs every1/2" which I suppose were meant to reduce friction but always seemed to cause some part of a molded edge to dive in there a bit when using a split fence set up. The MDF didn't wear particularly well either. This hood has a 13.5" opening between the fence plate supports, so when using 4"-5" tooling that leaves a lot of fence plate unsupported. I've found that even on a little PM 27 if the fence plates aren't rigid enough a feeder can introduce a bit of pesky snipe by flexing the unsupported edge of the indeed plate closest the cutter. These 3/4" aluminum plates don't flex at all, I think I'd have to have almost 1 1/4" thick hard wood or better fences to get the same rigidity, and that starts to cause problems with the hood's front to back placement. So my intention is to make these go until that kidney I placed on Ebay sells and I can buy the Aigner fences!:)

I appreciate all the suggestions guys, start with a good cleaning and see where that takes me. I might look into some phenolic cover plates, I could tap the aluminum and screw these on, maybe a 1/4"-3/8" thickness would work?

[Carl Beckett]

Add a layer of slick tape available at most woodworker supply places.

I have had this problem on a number of machines, and use this stick on sliippery tape (really about .030" thick UHMW, or Teflon, or something... not quite sure. But its slick.

Have never had problems with Anodize (until you get something that damages the anodized layer - hard anodize certainly is better than the standard anodize.

or a phenolic, or formica both sound good.

Wax inevitably wears off after a while, and the marking comes from abrading the Al in use.

[Jeff Duncan]

Try waxing first, but I wouldn't bother with sanding them. I was told by an old timer years ago that aluminum is a 'dirty' metal. Meaning that you could keep cleaning it but it'll never really come clean! It just keeps giving off that "dirt" or whatever you call it that colors wood black. Now there are a lot of types of aluminum and obviously the stuff they use on machinery these days doesn't have that property....but yours obviously does;) The stuff I've worked with for machining little parts here and there always has too, and only way I've gotten around it is with spraying a finish on it. FWIW I wouldn't recommend that as it'll just wear away over time:(

I use 1-1/2" hard maple for one of my machines but I don't have the same space constraints you do. My other machine may have a better solution for you though. It has a 1-3/8" face of baltic birch plywood made from gluing up 2 sheets laid perpendicular to each other. You could do the same with 1/2" baltic sheet to get a nice firm 1" face. Sand the face a little and put a coat of wax on it and your good to go! If you don't want to deal with waxing the laminate is certainly a good way to go also, and will surely wear better over the long run! I'm not sure I'd like the UHMV though....that may be a little more slippery than I want on the face when hand feeding??? Haven't tried it yet though so.....???

good luck,
jeffD

[Peter Kelly]

Could always get them powder coated. Fusion bonded epoxy finishes are certainly more durable than anodizing. Wouldn't cost all that much either.

[Joe Jensen]

I have an old SCMI jointer that I refurbed and I had the same issue with the raw aluminum fence. I tried polishing it but with my infrequent use it oxidized again. I ended up having it hard anodized, cost me like $50.

[Peter Quinn]

I have an old SCMI jointer that I refurbed and I had the same issue with the raw aluminum fence. I tried polishing it but with my infrequent use it oxidized again. I ended up having it hard anodized, cost me like $50.


This is a serious consideration for me. I noticed the fence plates have actually developed a wear line at around 1" above the table, probably the thickness of the previous owners average door thickness? I guess hard anodizing would solve both problems. I'm going to inquire with a machine shop in the complex where I work about a local plating source, maybe they handle that. I may run the plates through the wide belt sander and polish the faces prior to anodizing. I'm also considering machining some t-slots into the square ends to accept something like the aluminum bridges of the sort that Aigner sells as retrofits for older fences. Have you found the hard anodized fence wears well?

[Ken Grant]

sorry to bring this thread back from the dead, but I am having some similar issues with aluminum on a shaper fence as well as a couple router plates I made. Peter did you ever get your fence faces anodized? Anyone else have any suggestions?

[Ole Anderson]

sorry to bring this thread back from the dead, but I am having some similar issues with aluminum on a shaper fence as well as a couple router plates I made. Peter did you ever get your fence faces anodized? Anyone else have any suggestions?
Not trying to be smart, but do you mean some suggestions different from the 8 ones already offered in this thread? Aluminum oxidizes rapidly and what you see is the aluminum oxide rubbing off on the wood. If you clean all of the oxide off first, usually the problem resurfaces only after you let it sit for a while. Best solution is hard coat anodizing, easiest solution is to add a layer of "slick tape" something like this: http://www.rockler.com/nylo-tape-friction-free-drawer-slide-tape-choose-thickness

[Larry Edgerton]

Peter, the best stuff I have ever found was what came on my Uni originally. Its a wood product, EXTREMELY dense, man made lamination. There is no visible wear showing and although I have no idea how much stock it ran before I bought it I have run thousands of feet across it. I have been trying to find the same stuff with no luck. If you would like I can send you a sample and see if you have better luck.

I have tried 3/4"UHMW, too flexible except for use on one piece fences. I tried a split fence out of it and it was like a spring at the cutter. Tried backing it with aluminum and I could not get a good bond and it was getting too thick for small diameter cutters. Have been going to try Formica on aluminum, but have not gotten to it. Would like to try brass as well. Just because it is cool.:D

I keep looking at the Aigners but I use offset fences as much as not and they have no advantage in that case.

If you want a sample of the old fence, they cut one up before I bought it, PM me an address.

Larry

[ian maybury]

Standard decorative anodising isn't a big deal Peter, at least not over here - typically $50 for an item like a fence. Just be aware that whatever finish you have before anodising will remain. I typically block sand or lap my stuff on a surface table with maybe 600 wet and dry first, and then give it a quick rub with fine steel wool.

It doesn't seem to have any tendency to introduce distortion, and is easily drilled or tapped through if needed. There's fancier varieties of hard and electroless anodising which are probably a lot more expensive and chemically different, i've never used them.

I've had several items done locally (a planer thicknesser fence that was cuppped as supplied, and needed lapping flat which cut off the original anodising, and saw and drill press fences), and they have been 100% trouble free. e.g. the planer and low profile sub rip fence for an Incra TS LS positioner below:

320367 320368

[Martin Wasner]

Add a UHMW plastic layer to it. My main shaper I cover the whole deck in it. My old shaper went four or five years with out being lubed up once.

[glenn bradley]

Add a UHMW plastic layer to it. My main shaper I cover the whole deck in it. My old shaper went four or five years with out being lubed up once.

My experience with UHMW tape was similar.

[John TenEyck]

My Inca J/P has hard anodized tables but a plain machined aluminum fence. The tables have never left a mark on the wood, but that fence would drag against the wood and leave black marks on it when done. I added a thin sheet of peel and stick UHMW plastic to it. Problem solved. It's been on there for 20 years now.

John

[J.R. Rutter]

Add a UHMW plastic layer to it. My main shaper I cover the whole deck in it. My old shaper went four or five years with out being lubed up once.

Did you use the self adhesive thin stuff, or a thicker layer bonded some other way? I'm thinking of doing this for my sticking shaper.

[Larry Edgerton]

I always wondered if that tape would stay stuck. Guess so.

[Peter Quinn]

Well, I looked into anodizing, I forget the quotes but it gave me pause, for a couple of little fence plates, no way. So I double stick taped some Formica to the plates and moved on with life. I have this vision of maybe using contact cement and doing both sides some day. But frankly the aluminum doesn't move like single sided wood. The last year I've been working so much in other peoples shops that I've barely used my own and all but forgotten about the problem! I may have ordered some thin UHMW sheets to glue on, I'll remember when they fall on my head from a shelf looking for something else! I just sprayed a book case I made for my son 3 years ago to start school....things been moving slow in my shop as all focus is on making cash.

[Martin Wasner]

For some reason I can't edit my post. I'll try and get a picture after lunch for you JR

[Martin Wasner]

Did you use the self adhesive thin stuff, or a thicker layer bonded some other way? I'm thinking of doing this for my sticking shaper.


Neither really. I used 1/4", but it's not bonded or fixed to the shaper.

The shop next door to me uses a fair amount of Plyboo. Some of that stuff is ridiculously expensive, like $900 a sheet, and a lot of times it comes with a 4x8 sheet of 1/4" UHMW as a dunnage sheet. I poach these whenever I can. The 4x4 out feed table on the widebelt is plastic, and one of sawhorses for the table saw has the deck of it skinned with it as well. I've got a bunch of sheets in the rack I've been saving to skin all the tablesaw out feed tables with. The out feed on the widebelt, I just marked it out maybe 16" on center in a grid, and put a small screw that is countersunk. It's worked well. Slippery, and it doesn't mar anything coming out of the sander. The sawhorse, I used contact cement to stick it to a piece of 1/2" Baltic Birch, and it has held up far better than I thought. I figured one change of the seasons and it would start peeling, but so far so good. I did run the bonded face of the plastic through the widebelt with an 80 grit belt, just enough to get a scratch on it. I figured giving the contact cement some tooth wouldn't hurt. Might be why it has held up so well too.

On the shaper, I just ran it long on the sides and ran a few screws through the face into a small piece of solid scrap. That holds it in place side to side. Fore and aft, it's pinched in between the normal shaper fence, and an outboard fence. It doesn't move anything that causes me concern. Eventually, I want to get rid of my complicated and season dependent system of plywood spacers and mount a set of linear bearings on the sides of this shaper with a piece of aluminum between them. I figure with a digital readout on it, it will be plenty accurate for my needs, fast to set up, and consistent.

http://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/11887934_10206247270651922_6367616807250417771_n.j pg?oh=f73f75ad219ebc8243c52052df1f8c75&oe=56635D4B

http://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/11917736_10206247269771900_4108200814364185703_n.j pg?oh=947f3978fb290943de3feb0a1b60456c&oe=56679C7D

http://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11201809_10206247270331914_8669217825076477587_n.j pg?oh=fc26a4e5090e93768e8ca496ca08e08d&oe=567B2462

The other crap clamped to the fence is just there for chip management. My new insert heads haven't shown up yet, (Monday hopefully), so with my current mix of odd ball heads, I can't keep the fence as tight as I would like to the material for all the heads. If you are using the regular shaper fence as your reference point for the cut, I'd suggest removing the whole hood, cutting the bottom off of the fences whatever the thickness of your plastic is and attaching the plastic to the fence. I did something similar on my SAC shaper that I use for panel raising, but on that one, the wood rides on the iron, and the plastic is just there as a guide under the fence. I ran it through the spindle to make the fence continuous, so I didn't have to use a bearing. Panels fed very smoothly through it, until I lowered the cutter like an idiot into the plastic with the machine off, then started it up. SAC:1 UHMW:0.... I just made the new one from waxed up 1/4" Baltic Birch for the time being. I would've had to move a pile of miscellaneous sheets to get at a sheet of plastic, and didn't have time to do so. But, if you attach it to the fence bottom, then it will move with the fence if that's what you require. That is likely the path I will be taking when I finally get my fancy outboard adjustable fence. Another option would be to just drill and tap a couple of small holes to hold it in place. It's not really under that much load. There's a lot of pressure being put on it, but I don't really think it would take that much in sheer to hole it in place. I've got a few small hinge plate screws holding mine in place.

This setup is fairly new to me and hasn't had that much material ran across it, a few miles tops, but I did something similar on the predecessor to this shaper, and that thing had zillions of feet of lumber ran across it with no substantial wear, and I lubed it once but had no improvement. Plastic is cheap, just have to find the right source. I probably wouldn't do as much as I had if it weren't literally leaned up against a dumpster twenty feet from my back door. I have found a few places locally that were pretty reasonable price wise.

[J.R. Rutter]

^^ Thanks - that is helpful. Just seeing it helped me figure out how to do mine.

Nice to have a ready source of plastic close by. I would cover everything with it, too!

[Larry Edgerton]

I mount a one piece panel raising fence as well, made out of uhmw or whatever initials it is, has worked good for years. I screwed a 1/8" piece of aluminum on the bottom to stiffen up the little bridge of plastic.

A good source for absolutely any plastic is Norva Plastics out of the Carolina's I believe. I have their card here somewhere if anyone should need it, but a google search usually brings it up quicker than I can find the card. They do fabricated parts as well if the need should arise. I told them to send me $200 worth of scrap just for whatever, and they set me about 250 pounds of large pieces, much of it the high molecular weight stuff. They make the curved Lexan I use for sneeze guards to order and service is good.

[Martin Wasner]

^^ Thanks - that is helpful. Just seeing it helped me figure out how to do mine.

Nice to have a ready source of plastic close by. I would cover everything with it, too!

I thought you were running all your sticking through a moulder?

[Lee Schierer]

"Anyone have any tricks to seal raw aluminum "
***********************
Work needs some sanding after routing & milling.
A very light sanding will remove aluminum smear too.

Aluminum is a fairly soft metal and the oxide layer forms to stop corrosion. However, the oxide layer is as soft as the base metal so it rubs off. Only Anodize will make this layer hard enough not to rub off on your wood. The slick tape is also an option. Most paints won't be hard enough to last long and you'll be back to the gray marks before you know it. Anodizing is done a low temperatures so distortion is generally not a problem. Anodizing will not remove surface imperfections like scratches or dings. I would go with hard anodize.

[J.R. Rutter]

I thought you were running all your sticking through a moulder?

Only the miter door styles at the moment. S4S only lets us flip faces and edges to get the best looking parts out of each stick. We also put crown up on every piece, which helps avoid twist after glue-up, and some long sticks have opposing crowns along the length. It adds about 1/2 hour per kitchen to just run sticking on the individual parts, so not too bad. Same with copes - if there is a blow out, it can often be spun to remove it in the sticking profile.