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Julie Moriarty
07-27-2012, 2:30 PM
I've been tossing around making an entry door. The existing one was kicked down when we were out of town. And it's 26 years old. I was able to fix the door but the break in took its toll on it.

I've read a number of articles but none had step-by-step instructions nor did they have any information about do's and dont's. I know the joints need to be perfect, the wood grain has to be very straight and long tenons are needed.

I've seen solid wood doors made from mahogany, oak, alder and Douglas fir. I was thinking mahogany. I have a nice piece of African mahogany that I could use for the stiles and some smaller pieces. I found a door I really like. But can I make it so it will last?

What I'm thinking is using Freud's entry door router bits. They have pretty good instructions and the bits come with a DVD, so maybe that will be better than the PDF instructions. They recommend 2-1/2" tenons on three rails. The door I have in mind has no middle rail but this door is being sold as an entry door so it must work.

I've made dozens of cabinet doors and Freud's entry door bits work on the same principle. The curve on the top would be made with two pieces in order to minimize short grain runs. The tenons look pretty straightforward. The mortises would require either using a mortiser or making a jig to rout them out then clean up the corners with a chisel. The bit set cuts 5/8" wide dados. I'd have to buy a 5/8" hollow chisel bit for my mortiser if I went that route. (adds $90 to the cost)

For the panels, I'd make two pieces 3/4" thick, inside and outside, separated by 1/4" solid insulation. That would leave me a 3/16" edge on each panel to fit into the dado. I have two styles of panel bits (CMT) that I could use for the panels. They have back cutters that leaves 1/4" edge so I don't think cutting another 1/16" off would be an issue. They can cut a profile up to 5/8" deep (I'd use 9/16" of that) but I'm not sure how that would look, considering their profile. I'd have to check that out on a piece of scrap.

I'm thinking I'd make the short rails with tenons. Either that or use 1/2" dowels. I'm unsure how structurally sound it would be having tenons only on the top and bottom rails.

I took the image of the door and used AutoCAD to blow it up to size then drew the rails and stiles over that. Then I took Freud's router bit profile and created 3D parts and pieces out of the whole thing to see what I'd be in store for. I know I can make it. What I don't know is is the design structurally sound enough to hold up to the rigors an entry door endures?

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab233/jules42651/Entry%20door/EntryDoor-explode01-1.jpg
http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab233/jules42651/Entry%20door/EntryDoor-dim01-1.jpg

Peter Kelly
07-27-2012, 3:04 PM
If you're going to make the rails and stiles on that door out of solid wood (instead of staved cores or Timberstrand) I'd check the moisture content of your materials, estimate the anticipated moisture content in your area and plug the species and size and species into the Shrinkolator (http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/calculators/calc.pl?calculator=shrinkage) at Woodweb. You'll be amazed at how much certain woods can move seasonally, especially with exterior entry doors.

Julie Moriarty
07-27-2012, 3:32 PM
Thanks Peter! I ran the different woods I mentioned through the Shrinkolator and was surprised to find African mahogany had the least shrinkage. That's good news for me if I decide to do this because I have a couple of pieces in my shop that I could use in this project.

Peter Quinn
07-27-2012, 5:34 PM
IMO that door design is plenty strong enough with all the middle architecture involved. You could use either exterior rated dowels or tenons, or loose tenons for that matter. I'd like to see tenons at least 2/3 the width of the stiles at the top and bottom rail intersections. The jamb and threshold are actually more complicated IME than making the door (I work in a door shop, though I don't make many doors these days.....economy....ugghhh...). When people ask "will it last" my first response is "is it protected?" Porch, roof, portico, pediment, something between the direct sun, driving rain, freezing snow, and the hardwood door? Hardwood exterior doors require regular maintenance, and those without the aid of protection require more frequent maintenance, and those hanging out in the breeze may need semi-annual maintenance.

On that design I'd pay particular attention to the curved rail above the glass portion. As shown, that short grain is a major source of weakness, the first thing that will break, check and rot. Better IME to make up a segmented glue up with at least three sections. Worth considering. Solid may look more seamless at first, but it doesn't age well on a curve like that. At least int night be better to run the grain parallel to the rails if using a single board or edge grain glue up so you don't create a weak spot at the top of the curve, right where the door transfers load down to the bottom rail.

Julie Moriarty
07-28-2012, 12:08 AM
The door will be pretty well shielded from the elements. Besides sitting behind a storm door, it's sheltered by a roof overhanging the porch. It's about 28" above grade so there is virtually no problem with moisture seeping up from soil dampness. It has a westerly exposure, which is where most of the weather comes from, but it takes a hard blowing wind to actually drive rain and snow into it. The door only sees direct sunlight around sunset.

The curved rail as shown in the photo was a concern for me too. I saw the short grain at the bottom, where it met the inner stiles, and felt that should be a no-no for the manufacturer. Maybe I could bend laminates to solve weakness issues. I'm not sure how conducive African mahogany is to bending though. I don't have a steamer.

If you made the rail tenons through tenons and secured them with wedges would that solve the structural issues? It might add a bit of old world style to it.

Peter Quinn
07-28-2012, 8:40 AM
The door will be pretty well shielded from the elements. Besides sitting behind a storm door, it's sheltered by a roof overhanging the porch. It's about 28" above grade so there is virtually no problem with moisture seeping up from soil dampness. It has a westerly exposure, which is where most of the weather comes from, but it takes a hard blowing wind to actually drive rain and snow into it. The door only sees direct sunlight around sunset.

The curved rail as shown in the photo was a concern for me too. I saw the short grain at the bottom, where it met the inner stiles, and felt that should be a no-no for the manufacturer. Maybe I could bend laminates to solve weakness issues. I'm not sure how conducive African mahogany is to bending though. I don't have a steamer.

If you made the rail tenons through tenons and secured them with wedges would that solve the structural issues? It might add a bit of old world style to it.


Good protection is a good thing . Glad to hear that. For the curved rail, occasionally you might find piece of African mahogany whose grain takes a wild turn, and you cold use that turn to your advantage. But that type of stock may not be the easiest thing to shape in a tight curve. Tends to have a lot of tension. African mahogany bends well enough if sliced thin enough, but the visual effect of all those edge grain strips at what is essentially the focal point of that door may be distracting. I'm thinking the easiest approach is still to run the grain on the curved rail in the horizontal direction. This gives you a better strength than running a solid piece with grain horizontal, and while you do have short grain at the curved rail/mid stile intersections, the stress there is mostly in the vertical plane, and short grain still has good compression strength. Ideally though IME the curved head would be stronger if made either of three segments joined with sep half laps or bridal joints (either could be pegged as well) or made as a three layer lamination. You could also do both, or what is essentially a three layer brick laid lamination. Or you could may it like plywood, say a multi layer lamination (odd number of layers) glued up with perpendicular grain at each layer.

Looks like a great project and a beautiful door. Is that center panel going to be carved or glass? Its hard to tell in the picture but it looks carved. Beautiful either way. I see a fee of the old victorians in my neighborhood with doors similar, some have twin curves in the upper field, most have etched glass with some sort of design in the glass, a few simply have bevel edged glass. They look great to my eye either way. Of course a solid carved panel is more secure if break in is an issue, and a multi point lock system might keep out the invaders too. You could also go with the 2 1/4" thickness if the set you are using will accommodate that. I look forward to seeing pics of the progress!

Frank Drew
07-28-2012, 9:53 AM
Julie,

I agree with Peter that the curved rail shouldn't be a single piece if you're using solid; I think you could get away with a two-part construction to make up the full arch, with the grain of both parts running in the major direction of the pieces. Or do a lamination as Peter also suggests.

And speaking of grain direction, the pictures you've provided seem to show the grain of all the rails running vertically, across the width of the rails; that might just be a quirk in the art software, or to match visually the grain direction of the stiles, but the grain of the rails has to run in the direction of the length of the rails.

This is an ambitious first door project; get help for the glue-up, which is going to be an exercise in controlled chaos (as many glue-ups are).

Personally, I like through, wedged tenons for maximum strength door construction, but the method isn't used much anymore since it's so much more time consuming.

Mike Goetzke
07-28-2012, 10:10 AM
About 3-years ago I made an entrance door for our home. It's still standing and no warpage. I tried to document it somewhat here:

Mike's Entrance Door (http://woodworkerszone.com/igits/showthread.php?t=9227)

...but, the biggest help to me was Joe Grout a door maker on another forum - WN. We passed many e-mails to each other during the process. I could not have done this project w/o help from the forums.



Good Luck,

Mike

Mel Fulks
07-28-2012, 10:49 AM
"African mahogany" is not mahogany .It looks much like Swetenia mahogani ,but is much more difficult to work.Coloqial(spellcheck )names for wood species cause problems.It is in constant movement while being worked,and has caused much mischief in the form of "adjusting" jointers.I would use ,if at all , only for the rails.The stiles need to be true mahogany or with a core or something else.Good luck.

Mel Fulks
07-28-2012, 10:55 AM
Oops.Meant to say Swetenia macrofyla

Mike Heidrick
07-28-2012, 3:19 PM
Amazing write up Mike!

Peter Quinn
07-28-2012, 9:15 PM
"African mahogany" is not mahogany .It looks much like Swetenia mahogani ,but is much more difficult to work.Coloqial(spellcheck )names for wood species cause problems.It is in constant movement while being worked,and has caused much mischief in the form of "adjusting" jointers.I would use ,if at all , only for the rails.The stiles need to be true mahogany or with a core or something else.Good luck.

I'd agree that not every piece of African mahogany is suitable for door making, some is fraught with tension and movement. But some is quite close to true Mahogany in terms of stability and working properties. It took me a long time to learn to select it properly. Khaya, as its called, is a marketing term for a number of sub species lumped together into one group. This makes it easier to sell, but not easier to purchase the right stuff. Even in a yard well stocked with "pattern grade" you have to be selective, but good African Mahogany does exist. These days they are harvesting a lot of really bad SA mahogany that isn't suitable for door making either, so that is no sure thing either IME.

Mel Fulks
07-29-2012, 2:57 PM
I essentially agree with you in cases where one has some inventory or an unusually patient lumber dealer.But for her project which,which is fairly ambitious,and with a small amount of stock.I think it is a risky bet.Time is precious to talented amateurs and no one wants to her good work spoiled by bad material.

Paul B. Cresti
08-03-2012, 1:10 PM
I recently completed my own exterior front entry so I will share some of my insight/experiences with you.

If you are going to build a solid wood exterior door it MUST be of staved construction or it will eventually warp on you. I suppose you might get lucky if you find weathered wood like 100 years old but not sure even then. In my project I was lucky enough to find 1950's Honduras Mahogany, 8/4 with boards 27 to 30" wide x 12 to 14' long !!(incredibly tight grain) and I still did not take a chance. All parts were created with staves about 1"x1-1/2" by 10 to 11" long then glued and finger jointed together end to end. The faces were then "skinned" with 1/2" pieces to obtain the grain patterns/coloration I wanted, all "edges" were also "skinned". All joints were loose M&T then pegged....glue used was West Systems epoxy....another option I considered vs M&T was threaded rods & bolts...but I liked the pegged look. Key here is to use BOTH mechanical and chemical joint. I would also suggest using the same species of wood for the staves and skins.

You must be sure you have the wood seasoned well and mill it and then let it sit. This takes many steps and waiting... The same goes for the stave construction...glue then wait, etc.... Over size everything in your glue ups then size it down to what you need after.

Finish...use a high quality exterior finish that can handle UV. I used Setol door & Window. You must be prepared to refinish the door avery other year or so. Wood must be maintained it is not like a steel door that you install and walk away.

Site location...where is the door going to be installed? North side, south, etc...as the amount of sun and element exposure will also affect the finish you choose (pigmented stain, paint, clear), how often you must maintain and if you should consider putting a roof over it (portico, in a porch)

Panels....my panels were a bit smaller than yours but I had of course an inside and outside panel. I put weather stripping in the dados to center the panel and allow expansion/contraction plus the panels have a piece of Tyvek between them.

I would be concerned with your main styles. I do not feel 5" is wide enough to maintain rigidity. Remember you still have to bore it for locks, and add hinges. You need to design the door hinges based upon weight and size. 3-1/2 of 4 pairs, 3-1/2" or 4" hinges, ball bearing or pinned, etc.....

Need to think about your saddle....interlocking with metal or wood. How about weather stripping? are you going to "add" later/have it as part of the stop or perhaps use an interlocking metal type.

I know lots of stuff here but you need to consider it all together as all the pieces will inform each other in the final design.

Paul B. Cresti
08-03-2012, 2:34 PM
Rob...since you PM'd me.....
Stave Construction (see pic above) - solid stock was ripped into very long strips about 1" x 1.5". Then I crosscut them all to about the 10-11" length. All of these short blanks were glued together depending on how wide a part I needed (one could also alternate grain and glue the long strips together, then crosscut & finger join togehter, but I opted for the never going to warp on me more time consuming method) After all these blanks were made I then finger jointed them back together to create long blanks. I rough dressed these blanks and then added a edge strip at the appropriate "exposed finished" side so one did not see all the finger jointed blanks, re-dressed....then applied the "skins" 1/2"+/- thick on either side....then final dressing performed. Final product is one very straight, stable member & really heavy !!

On the curved members I used the same staved method but the blanks were made very wide and then joined at angles and skinned. Pieces were over sized then I simply cut on the bandsaw and smoothed out with templates and jog on the shaper....

As an FYI I do not have the "normal" shop equipment :D This profiling was all done on a shaper...

My method is very time consuming but it is tried and trued and I know it will never warp on me. I am no longer doing ww'g professionally but I have been asked to make front entries. If their first question is how much? I reply then I am not the guy for you.

Carl Beckett
08-03-2012, 2:46 PM
Some great work here! Thank you everyone! I have toyed with the idea of an entrance door, and didnt have a clue all the factors to consider......

Very educational.

scott vroom
08-03-2012, 2:53 PM
Paul, excellent post....very informative.

Peter Quinn
08-03-2012, 6:25 PM
I essentially agree with you in cases where one has some inventory or an unusually patient lumber dealer.

If your lumber dealer won't let you sort packs for the proper wood to make a door, you have the wrong lumber dealer. I don't find it unusually patient at all. I've heard of local yards that don't let you pull your own wood or sort, I don't buy there. I'd expect to have to take plywood from the top of a lift at a quality yard and not be sorting that, but lumber is a completely different story.

Frank Drew
08-04-2012, 10:07 AM
If you are going to build a solid wood exterior door it MUST be of staved construction or it will eventually warp on you.

If you mean warp to the extent it becomes a problem (either cosmetically or functionally), then I don't agree with this, based on my experience with doors I've made (and still have occasion to see 15 and 20 years later), and the track record all those countless traditionally made doors out in the world.

For a door placed in an appropriate site (gotta give the thing some protection from the elements), careful stock selection, careful -- and patient -- sizing and joinery, and an appropriate finish, with renewal schedule as you note, are key.

Peter Quinn
08-04-2012, 12:04 PM
If you mean warp to the extent it becomes a problem (either cosmetically or functionally), then I don't agree with this, based on my experience with doors I've made (and still have occasion to see 15 and 20 years later), and the track record all those countless traditionally made doors out in the world.

For a door placed in an appropriate site (gotta give the thing some protection from the elements), careful stock selection, careful -- and patient -- sizing and joinery, and an appropriate finish, with renewal schedule as you note, are key.


Paul, thats a beautiful entry way, and I'm most interested in the stave core construction. But I have to agree with Frank on the point that there is still a place for solid hard wood doors in this world. The place I work for has been making entryways for over 30 years, no failures to date, and the construction is very traditional solid wood. The occasional doors may warp a bit, but the 3/8" thick weatherstrip and a large set of 3-4 4X4 hinges keep that in check. I guess with interlocking zinc a little warp could be more problematic, but generally speaking otherwise its not a show stopper, and a solid stile with pegged mortises is hard to beat. The stave core worries me because its relying 100% on adhesive. Each year the core and skins are in a perineal tug of war, eventually one may lose. Forget the pegged tenons, if the core falls apart the tenons are holding nothing. I was recently called out to look at a door manufactured with stave core. It was living in a hard place, not enough coverage, not enough maintenance, but neither steel nor fiberglass was the right look for this old victorian. I'll tell you that when stave core fails, it fails big. This beautiful French pair was SHOT, I could see no meaningful way to repair the damage, and I declined to make a replacement due to a variety of factors. I actually recommended a fiberglass unit for this application. This is the second stave core door I have been called to replace. The other was also in a hard spot, no maintenance, full exposure. That one I did replace with a solid wood unit. Very simple door, I felt solid wood would outlast other construction methods given that the owners will probably not install a storm door (as I suggested), build a pediment, or maintain the finish in any meaningful way.

On a technical note I don't understand the purpose of finger jointed shorts in the stave construction? Seems to me solid strips the length of the would offer more resistance to bending than finger joints, and given they are all moving in the face to face direction they could be stabilized with a small V glue joint cutter relative to each other. I have seen finger jointed trim creep and fail on every occasion before anything else on a building, so I wonder what the advantage is in a door core?

Peter Quinn
08-04-2012, 2:15 PM
Julie, You amy find this link helpful or interesting.

http://americanwoodworker.com/blogs/projects/archive/2011/04/22/aw-extra-build-your-own-french-doors.aspx

Larry Edgerton
08-04-2012, 2:44 PM
If you are going to build a solid wood exterior door it MUST be of staved construction or it will eventually warp on you.
.

I gotta call bologna on that statement. You may voice that as your opinion, but it is certianly not a fact.

Larry

Paul B. Cresti
08-04-2012, 5:54 PM
everything is my opinion....as I stated many moons ago on this site I am an expert of myself :D. No matter what construction option you so chose, if you do go with a wood door, maintenance & protection should go hand in hand. In my case that door never gets sun on it (no worries with UV destroying that epoxy glue which is used in marine applications) and it is protected completely from rain and snow unless of course it goes sideways. The old SOLID wood door it replaced was beat....and yes it had NO protection over it.

Again my opinion...if you do use wood to make the door use both mechanical and chemical joint system.

Mel Fulks
08-05-2012, 12:22 PM
Some door stiles are being made now with exterior MDF cores,that came to my attention in an ad for a large mfg.I tried it and it and liked it.Technique specifics offered to anyone interested. AWI approved them years ago .I don't like them much but what they say rules in commercial work.Engineered stiles are always more work but at times nessesary.A successful local company handled the decision by telling the customer . Not by asking them.If you ordered a paint grade to be used under cover you had some choice of appropriate species.If you wanted a flat sawn red oak door (even for interior)you got cored stiles or you got it somewhere else.The trade can only control it's reputation by controlling its work.In the time of the guilds it was illegal to use flat sawn oak,but none of the politicians are even talking about bringing it back......!

Peter Quinn
08-05-2012, 5:39 PM
Some door stiles are being made now with exterior MDF cores,that came to my attention in an ad for a large mfg.I tried it and it and liked it.Technique specifics offered to anyone interested. AWI approved them years ago .I don't like them much but what they say rules in commercial work.Engineered stiles are always more work but at times nessesary.A successful local company handled the decision by telling the customer . Not by asking them.If you ordered a paint grade to be used under cover you had some choice of appropriate species.If you wanted a flat sawn red oak door (even for interior)you got cored stiles or you got it somewhere else.The trade can only control it's reputation by controlling its work.In the time of the guilds it was illegal to use flat sawn oak,but none of the politicians are even talking about bringing it back......!


The MDF core they can keep. The stuff can barely support its own weight. I've used exterior MDF panels in a bathroom for wainscot, I soaked it in a bucket for several days outside before installing, left it there during the entire install, water never affected it. But it was still heavy, saggy, flabby old MDF. AWI can approve what they want, I won't ever trust it for quality work. You mentioned "telling" the customer how the doors were to be made. That makes me smile, because in the market I work we get lots of customers (designers, architects, contractors, home owners, some combination of the afore mentioned) that don't like being "told" anything. The only thing they occasionally get "told" these days is that we will make it exactly as they have asked, but there will be NO warranty whatever for the construction they have specified. It would be nice to have the power of a good old fashioned mid evil guild, but alas those days are largely over, at least for the small custom shop in my area.

As part of the discussion it should be mentioned that stave core is hardly a "new" idea. In the door section of "Modern Practical Joinery, George Ellis, pub 1902., he details several different "compound core" methods of making "veneered" doors already in regular practice at that time, whose purpose he indicates was to eliminate warping in large doors. I think the construction goes back further though how far I'm not sure exactly. I've worked on some large interior doors (42X96) that were stave core and still dead flat after nearly 100 years. Still in great shape too in a commercial building, but not exterior in this case. Definitely a proven method at this point.

Larry Edgerton
08-05-2012, 7:14 PM
I have that book in my collection as well Peter. I learned more from all of those old books than I ever did anywhere else. I am a bit in the middle of nowhere here so it was my only option when I needed help.

My market is just as you discribe yours, I do what they want. I will save my arguments for battles that I really need to win. My new motto since this depression started is "Yes we can!"

I make doors all kinds of ways, whatever the market will bear, and will stand the test of time. I would not make a door for a bar the same way that I would make one for a residence for example. I made one door for a bar that weighed 450#'s, and that one was a sort of cored construction. I used Appleply as a core, and basically built two one sided doors that were laminated to the core with West System. It worked, has been opened probably a million times by drunks and is still taking all the abuse they can dish out after 20 years.

I made a sliding door for an airplane that had a composite honeycomb core in both the styles and rails as well as the center of the panels. That was interesting. Seemed strainge to have a door that appeared to be solid but was light as a cabinet door. I made the cabinets with the same methods. Fun!

And then I have a slew of solid wood doors as specified by owners/architects that are still fine to this day. I have had two failures, one was my fault, and one was the shop owners.

I guess my point is that there are many ways to achieve the same goal with equal success, and there is never only one way to do anything. As Peter has said, in this market we have to give them what they want, even if we don't like it. I am doing things now that I never thought I would have to do again. But such is life.

Larry

PS. I agree on the MDF core. Guys got to draw a line somewhere......

Mel Fulks
08-05-2012, 8:16 PM
I,m getting a little confused ,if you can't tell the customer what to do how can you refuse to use mdf cores when they bring in drawings calling for them? I don't like AWI anyway ,but their specs are hard to avoid .When they spec something that works I accept it. Not trying to preach to the choir,my door comments are made because we have a member who wants to build a door and has the the enviable freedom to choose how to do it .

Peter Quinn
08-05-2012, 9:06 PM
I,m getting a little confused ,if you can't tell the customer what to do how can you refuse to use mdf cores when they bring in drawings calling for them? I don't like AWI anyway ,but their specs are hard to avoid .When they spec something that works I accept it. Not trying to preach to the choir,my door comments are made because we have a member who wants to build a door and has the the enviable freedom to choose how to do it .

I don't think you can "tell" a client intent on having a certain thing how to do it. But you can always try to steer them away from the worst things out there. Doesn't always work. Then you have to decide where you stand, if you want or need the work. I work for a millwork shop, there I do what I'm told. Last job I did I was scratching my head the entire time. Complete POS door in a beautiful mahogany jamb with side lites. The hardware cost more than the door! Every wood working professional involved asked "Is this thing for real"? Sadly, yes. Client loved it. 7 years ago I doubt the estimator would have called them back. So tomorrow morning if a set of plans shows up on my bench to make an MDF core door, I'll start gluing up MDF, or MedEx, or toilet paper if that is the spec. Now in my home shop where my name is on the door, and its supplemental income, I will refuse work. Generally I'll go pocket veto on that, because you never know where work might come from in the future. Don't want to offend. My comments regarding MDF were largely aimed at the op, or that segment of the group that might be in the position to choose their construction method freely. DONT DO IT. MDF has its place, your front door is not that place. If for no other reason, I hate working with MDF. I love the smell white oak adds to a room as its being milled, MDF, not so much.

Larry Edgerton
08-06-2012, 6:37 AM
I usually comment that that is how something is made in housetrailors, or mention that they can get one like that at WallMart, and that usually does the trick.

I am lucky really, my customer list has evolved in to people that pay attention, and know quality. By getting rid of the crews I can pick and choose, but having gone from 18 guys to just one and myself I am working myself to death. With the current political instability shop work is way off, most of my work is on site. People just are not buying that expensive luxury kind of stuff. Hopefully after the election it will pick up, but I am afraid that the ride is over.

Low overhead is my solution. If I am wrong and it picks back up so much the better, but I got rid of the commercial building, diesel trucks, etc. I now drive a Ford Ranger, that gets 29mpg by the way. Everything I buy I equate to how many hrs I have to work to pay for it, and usually I find I don't need it. We were hit here in Michigan first and don't seem to be on the way to recovery yet. Its been about seven bad years so far.

Gotta get to work, have a great day.

Larry

Mel Fulks
08-06-2012, 10:27 AM
Waffle cores are coming in and have been given good reviews on this site .The "carved" applied ornaments on many old mantels are made of composition.The long leaf old pine so expensive and proudly displayed today was once just cheap stuff.Faux finishes were once mostly done because it was cheaper than the real thing ,now they can easily cost more than the real thing.We made some doors a couple of years back out of mahogany .They were faux finished at a hefty price by a highly skilled artist .The finish chosen? Mahogany.I have never seen real figured mahogany that looked as ....real.Materials and where to use them have always been under constant review.

Larry Edgerton
08-06-2012, 5:33 PM
The cores I was talking about for the plane were carbon fiber. Not a cost saving measure, all about weight.

Larry

Peter Quinn
08-06-2012, 6:00 PM
Waffle cores are coming in and have been given good reviews on this site .The "carved" applied ornaments on many old mantels are made of composition.The long leaf old pine so expensive and proudly displayed today was once just cheap stuff.Faux finishes were once mostly done because it was cheaper than the real thing ,now they can easily cost more than the real thing.We made some doors a couple of years back out of mahogany .They were faux finished at a hefty price by a highly skilled artist .The finish chosen? Mahogany.I have never seen real figured mahogany that looked as ....real.Materials and where to use them have always been under constant review.

Agreed, but MDF is still MDF. I use polyurethane trim as replacement on all the non hand contact surfaces I con, and it performes better than most wood in most cases as 'non-structural' ornamentation. But where I need strength or where regular hand contact occurs, I prefer wood. Handrails? Wood. Porch floor? Wood. Columns? Painted plastic. MDF is for non structural applications in my book. A door is not a non structural item given how the weight cantilevers off one edge or pivot point. I have actually recommended fiberglass doors to clients where I didn't think wood was appropriate. Heck if they make boats out of it why not. But I have never heard of anyone making an MDF strip boat.

Frank Drew
08-09-2012, 8:28 AM
"Modern Practical Joinery, George Ellis, pub 1902.

Great book, a genuine treasure trove of woodworking knowledge.