First set of clamps: pipe or heavy-duty F?

[Kesh Ikuma]

Now I have power tool decisions made with the help from the SMC community (thank you so much for those of you posted advices on my other thread!) I've moved on to determine my first set of clamps (other than a few small C clamps that I already own) :D but quickly became :confused::confused::confused:

One of the first things I want (or rather need) to build is a workbench. I'm planning on building my first one out of 2x4's, including laminating bunch of them for its benchtop. So, I figure I need to have long and strong clamps to do this. Obviously, the first thought was to pick up a few of pipe clamp fixtures and 10' 3/4" pipes.

But, I quickly figured out that pipe clamps aren't exactly cheap (for my budget, mind you :)) if you get quality clamp fixtures (~$20 total with 3' pipe). Then, today I saw in the promo email from Rockler that they have Jet clamps on sale ("Save up to 40%" sign got me to click that link lol). They got heavy-duty F clamps: 3'x5" for $23 and 4'x3" for $13 (and many others). They seem to be good clamps to get.

So, I'd like to have options on the following to make up my mind:

1. Is there any distinctive advantages of pipe vs. heavy-duty F? (Other than pipe's length flexibility)
2. What is a general rule of thumb for clamp spacing for tabletop lamination? (To figure out how many I need at first)
3. F clamp jaw depth: is it wider the better for the same clamping force spec?

Thanks!!
Kesh

[John Bunday]

For the what it's worth department, I have used Jorgenson 3/4" pipe clamps for the last 40 years or so. 3/4" pipe is readily available and frankly, most of the pipe I use in various lengths I salvaged from job sites so my cost is zero except for the clamp fixtures which seem to last forever. I keep an inventory of various lengths from 12" to 72" and swap the fixtures around as needed.
As far as the number of clamps needed. Well, you can never have too many clamps. Well machined and jointed lumber will need fewer per foot of glue up than off the shelf yard lumber with it's inherent twists, bows, and curls.
Stay away from the Cheops sold at hoar freight and walk away from the fixtures that use 1/2" pipe.
John B.......

[Carl Beckett]

My favorite clamps are the Jorgenson I beam type. Have preferred these over pipe clamps.

A long time ago I got some aluminum channel type on sale and these have worked great but a little lightweight duty for some things. then I picked up some Rockler aluminum channel ones that seemed the same, but dont work nearly as good (they bind)

I have one set of Irwin parallel face clamps. Mine dont work so well (they seem to bind before they clamp tight).

The I beams are a little heavy for some things, but still my preferred go to clamp. You cant have too many clamps, and to build a workbench might need more than you would want to invest all up front (I have always wondered why you couldnt put threaded rod through workbench pieces, and just pull it all tight this way?) Another option is to set it up so you can wedge a 2x4 or something between the stack of pieces and an overhead beam - or something like this - you can get some high clamping forces this way). Point being you might not need as many clamps up front if you can find a way to get the workbench built with other clamping methods.

(it seems that you are going down the learning curve that you will spend as much, or more on all the 'little things', as you will on big obvious machinery...... welcome to woodworking!)

[Chad Bender]

As you've discovered, clamps are expensive. However, I take a bit of issue with the 'never have enough clamps' concept that is frequently bandied about. You need enough clamps to keep them from being the bottleneck on your workflow, and no more than that.

For me, the bottleneck is the length of time I make it into my shop in a single go - typically not more than a couple of hours at a time. Therefore, the fairly small number of large clamps that I have is sufficient because I'm rarely in a position to glue up multiple panels, sides, carcasses, etc at once. With that working model, I can afford to glue something up, call it a night, and come back to the project the next day. That obviously doesn't work in a commercial shop.

Here is my clamp inventory:
6 3/4" pipe clamp fixtures (4 rockler, 2 noname) with 8 2.5' lengths of pipe and some couplers
4 30" F clamps
4 12" F clamps
2 wood screw clamps (these are what I turn to first)
4 small C clamps

That's a fairly small number, but enough to keep me working. I don't have any of the fancy I-beam variety - they look nice, but my entire collection of other clamps would only buy 2 of the I-beam ones.

If you're buying pipe clamps, buy 10' lengths of pipe from the Borg for ~$15. The Orange one will cut them into however many pieces you want and thread the ends for no charge.

[John Coloccia]

re: advantages and disadvantages

It's difficult to compare the two because they're two different style clamps. Pipe clamps (and parallel clamps) are great for gluing up flat panels. F clamps are great for gluing smaller things to each other. F clamps have drastically greater reach. The work better on oddly shaped items, clamping things to the workbench, etc. Good luck clamping something down to your bench with a pipe clamp.

If I could ONLY have one style, I would have F clamps. I can do panel glueups with F clamps, but I can't do everything else with pipe clamps. The great advantage to the pipe clamp is that the pipe serves as a surface to rest the panels on while you're doing the glue up. Gluing up panels with F clamps requires significantly more care to get the glue-up straight and to keep it from squirming around. With the pipe clamp it's trivial...lay half on your surface, install the panel, and lay the other half on top. No bowing and generally no shifting if you're half awake.

I couldn't function without both, but F clamps for sure if you can only have one style...in my opinion.

[John Coloccia]

(I have always wondered why you couldnt put threaded rod through workbench pieces, and just pull it all tight this way?)

Well, you can. It works especially well if you put a slightly bowed clamping caul on either end. It's just not convenient and you end up with a bunch of holes through your bench.

Generally, I suggest buying clamps used if you can. Don't know about your area, but everyone around here is going broke or going out of business, and lots of folks are liquidating their whole shops. Shops have clamps :)

[johnny means]

IME the most used clamps in most shops are the 2" f-clamps. My first set of clamps was a 30 peice set of Bessey Tradesmans fire like $350. I have a lot more clamps now including another set of 30 Tradesmans. 90% of the time I reach for these first.

[johnny means]

I have always wondered why you couldnt put threaded rod through workbench pieces, and just pull it all tight this way?

Actually, many older benchs and bowling lanes were made this way. It allows for shrinkage to be account for as it happens. Ends start to check, turn a nut, no more check.

[Ryan Baker]

The only thing I have found pipe clamps to be useful for is when you need a really long clamp, 5-6 feet or more, which would be prohibitive in other types. Pipe clamps are heavy and awkward to use. They have little reach (depth), and the crank is always running into something. They can provide a lot of clamping force. The last time I used mine was about 15 years ago when I needed some long clamps for a bench assembly.

I use F clamps more than anything. They are light weight, versatile, less expensive, and can provide plenty of force for most jobs. For something longer than about 3 feet, something heavier would do better though.

I'd suggest picking up a couple pipe clamps to have around for the times you need long clamps, and focus on something else for the majority of your clamps.

[Mike Heidrick]

I use parallels and F clamps the most. I would get a pair of 48 and a pair of 24 parallels to start your journey (Jorgy Cabinet Master, or Bessie K-bodies/revos, or Jet Parallels w/trigger) clamps and a few sizies of F's (the German made Bessie F clamps) . I would see the Jet F clamps in person before buying them (try HD or Lowes). I don't much care for the Chinese Bessie F clamps either at Lowes.

[glenn bradley]

Except for the Bessey "Mighty Minis" I would trade every f-style clamp I have 4 to 1 for parallel jaw clamps BUT, that is because I do what I do. You do what you do and what works for me may not work for you. That being said, your satisfaction with your clamps will depend on what you are asking them to do. I do have a dozen 3/4" Jorgie pipe clamps that I bought many years ago. The last time I used them was . . . many years ago. Parallel clamps will do just about anything any f-style or pipe clamp will do but, they can be a parallel clamp too ;-). If you are doing a lot of sheetgoods work, you will favor one type of clamp, coffee tables and chairs, you may favor another. We would be able to make much better decisions early on IF we knew what sort of woodworking we were going to end up drawn to the most, Since we can't know that, we ask on here and take all the opinions of all the nice folks here and try to render them down to what applies to us. I would have less clamps (but not more money) if I had been able to see the future. Good luck and enjoy.

[Mike Heidrick]

Another good thing you could try - Get some bow clamps (or make some) and use them with your F clamps. With the right glue-ups you could save some on clamps.

[Jim Andrew]

I find I have trouble getting enough clamps. My shop time lately has been about 6 hours. And when I do glue-ups, never have too many, and lots of times wish I had a few more. I found pipe clamps to be lacking, except for length, Have a couple 8' to use when nothig else reaches, been buying the Jorgy Cabinet Masters, and find them to be great. Use the Jorgys first, and fill in with the pipe clamps.

[Bob Lasley]

Kesh,

I have many different kinds of clamps, but not many of any one type. I use my parallel clamps alot on edge glueups and love them for that, but I find them too heavy for alot of other work. The Bessey minature parallel clamps are great for small box work and such. F clamps have their place and hand screws theirs and so on. The best advice I could give you is don't buy anymore of a particular style of clamp at one time than you need to get a project done. As you try different types of clamps for things you will learn what works best for you to accomplish a particular task. You will also learn which types are your favorites. Then buy more of your favorites as you find them on sale or otherwise need them. Good Luck!

[Mike Heidrick]

I find I have trouble getting enough clamps. My shop time lately has been about 6 hours. And when I do glue-ups, never have too many, and lots of times wish I had a few more. I found pipe clamps to be lacking, except for length, Have a couple 8' to use when nothig else reaches, been buying the Jorgy Cabinet Masters, and find them to be great. Use the Jorgys first, and fill in with the pipe clamps.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/BloomingtonMike/panelclamp.jpg

[Mike Cutler]

If you're on a budget, pipe clamps are hard to beat. It's just a matter of buying, or scrounging pipe when you can.

I have the following clamps
2-10' 3/4'pipe clamps.
4 -1/2" pipe clamps 5' long.
At least 20 F-style clamps of various lengths.
4 sets of Bow Clamps, cauls.

A tip for the pipe clamps for panel glue up.
Use a 3/4" dowel run along the length of both edges. Apply the clamp pressure to the dowel and it transmits the force to the material in a more centered manner.

[Kesh Ikuma]

Wow guys, thanks for all the replies!

And yes from all the readings & watching I've done, I get that parallel clamps are the kings (and that's well supported here it appears), but I've gotta start somewhere a little bit more modest to my wallet :D I will definitely keep this thread as my guide on future clamp purchases though.

Meanwhile, I just could not pass up the 40% off + free shipping double deals (the latter of which ends today) at Rockler on those Jet F clamps, so I ordered a several 36" ones. I saw them at my local woodworking store just recently and vaguely remember thinking that they looked pretty well built (but what do I know as I've never used an F clamp in my life...). Since there were no reviews on any of Jet F clamps on Rockler website, I suspect they are fairly new products???

What do you guys look for for the quality of clamps? Just try clamping something as hard as you can? If anyone's interested, I can post my impressions when I get them and use them.

[Kesh Ikuma]

johnny,


My first set of clamps was a 30 peice set of Bessey Tradesmans fire like $350. I have a lot more clamps now including another set of 30 Tradesmans.

Good to hear this. I've been considering getting this exact set.

[John Coloccia]

What do you guys look for for the quality of clamps? Just try clamping something as hard as you can? If anyone's interested, I can post my impressions when I get them and use them.

There's really not anything to look for. Stick to Jorgenson and Bessey, and you'll probably end up with good clamps. Just about the only place that you can skimp is maybe with C clamps. Even a factory in China that's never seen a clamp before seems capable of making a decent C clamp out of whatever metal happens to fall into the furnace. For everything else, I stick to those two if I can.

[Van Huskey]

Stick to Jorgenson and Bessey, .

Don't forget Jet as well, I prefer the Jet parallels with Jorgenson right behind them. I find the trigger extremely useful.

[Paul McGaha]

Kesh,

I'm the same as John, I like Jorgensen and Bessey. In my case probably not a coincidence that's what my local Woodcraft was selling back when I was buying my clamps.

Maybe try a few different clamps to figure out which ones you like and work well for you and then buy a lot of that type.

Try to buy them on sale if you can, or maybe used.

Good luck with it.

PHM

[Mike Cutler]

I've also got pretty much all Tradesman and Jorgie's.
Keep an eye on your Home Depot. The one near me sells Jorgies and Bessey tradesman's and has a habit of marking them wrong. I've picked up more than a few with the wrong SKU. They also yellow tag them every so often.
Flea Markets, garage sales and antique stores are good sources of clamps. I have some pretty cool looking F-Clamps from an antique store. They have a retro Steam Punk look to them. Cheap too!
You will need those pipe clamps if you start to do large case work, or big projects. Being able to pull across the diagonal to set square is necessary sometimes.

You're going to spend a good amount on clamps. It's just part of woodworking. Cheap, crappy clamps can bring a project to a halt quickly, or ruin a lot of prep work hours in minutes. Get good ones whenever possible.

[Carl Beckett]

The other type that get a LOT of use in y shop are the quick grip type.

And recently I picked up a couple Irwin quick grips that had higher clamping forces. Have become my go to when wanting to hold something on the bench, etc.

And spring clamps are useful ( and cheap... Maybe harbor freight for these? )

[John Coloccia]

Don't forget Jet as well, I prefer the Jet parallels with Jorgenson right behind them. I find the trigger extremely useful.

Ja ja....I have a set of Jet parallel clamps and they work very well.

[Kesh Ikuma]

Don't forget Jet as well, I prefer the Jet parallels with Jorgenson right behind them. I find the trigger extremely useful.

Yeah, I've been reading good things about Jet's parallels. So, I'm optimistic on their F's.

[Van Huskey]

Yeah, I've been reading good things about Jet's parallels. So, I'm optimistic on their F's.

I bought 20 or so of the 40" versions for $9 each free shipping from WC a couple of years ago on closeout. They are heavier than Bessey med duty Trademan and just a little lighter than the HD Tradesman. I haven't use mine much at all since my plan was to cut most of them down since I rarely use longer F-clamps (parallel for longer than 24" most of the time). They seem to be very good and again they also have the trigger which I like BUT for some reason my brain forgets the F clamps have a trigger and I try to close them the normal way since I have always used the standard type.

[art pfenn]

I build my workbench out of laminated 2x3" and needed more clamps then I had so I went to Harbor Freight. Their F clamps are very good and very reasonable at least 1/2 the cost of brand name ones. With their 20% off coupons that are in the paper every week you can get them for under $10 dollars. Add the discount to when they go on sale and the savings are even greater. TYhey also have pipe clamps and ratchet ones. I just got a 12" ratchet clamp for about $1.60 cents!

[Prashun Patel]

IMHO, you should start investing in cabinet clamps. They are stronger, clamp deeper, and don't flex. F clamps are good under 18". Longer than that, even quality ones can flex.

Rockler has Irwin 24" cabinet clamps on sale right now. It's a good buy.
Woodcraft has a jorgensen 4 pack on sale now too.

This being said, I think you should have a bunch of f-style clamps as supplements and for jigs and small clamping. I'd get a 6-8 pack from ebay (noname). Even if a couple don't clamp properly - which is a risk with no-name - you will be way ahead on price. Also, look out for clearance sales on branded (like Jet) 6-12" f style clamps; they happen often.

I would not buy no-name cabinet clamps.

[Stew Hagerty]

OK, I am the first to admit that I have a lot of clamps... For what I do at least. I just don't want to run one clamp short when I'm working I guess.

Anyway, I have Bessey K-Body Revo's 4-24", 4-30", 4-40", 4-50", 4-60", 2-82", and 2-98". I love and use them all the time. Plus, I also have a dozen of the Bessey Mighty Mini's (everyone should have some these versatile little clamps), several wooden handscrew clamps, spring clamps, etc.

All of those aside, I have to say that my "go-to" clamps are f-body style. And I got mine cheep! Harbor Freight... That's right, Harbor freight. They may be inexpensive, but for the price, they work just fine. Compared to Bessey Tradesman to Jorgensen, no they don't have acme threads, no they don't have as much clamping pressure, yes they do flex more, and no they aren't a "pretty", but they work. They get the job done. I have about a dozen each of their 6", 12", 18", and 24" "Quick Release Bar Clamps".

http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=quick+release+bar+clamps

For $2.99 to $4.99 each you just can't beat them. Just my humble opinion of course.

[jim gossage]

I too have many clamps and like my jet parallels the best . +1 on harbor freight for small f-clamps. You need to sort through them to find the good ones. I also rec getting a couple of large wooden clamps which have many unique uses - also available at HF, but u really have to search for ones with square jaws.

[Rick Fisher]

I have pretty much all Bessey clamps.. 16 x Tradesman clamps and about 30 K-Bodies..

No complaints but never used the Jorgie's.. I really dislike pipe clamps but they work ..

[phil harold]

I think you will need a variety of clamps
But
If I could only pick one kind it it would be a Wetzler quick action clamp no.7
That and my Long Island Clamps are the first ones I grab
these can do more than any other clamp

http://www.enter.net/~wetzler/style.htm

[Rod Sheridan]

It's tough to spend money on clamps when you're starting out, so you usually make the mistake of not buying what you really need.

This causes you to replace them later.

I have a lot of Bessey K body clamps, and they are far superior to pipe clamps, well worth buying a couple here and there until you have a good collection.

They are great for panel glue up, drawers, carcasses etc.

Some F types also for different applications.

Do yourself a favour, buy some good Bessey K body equivalents, you won't regret it...................Regards, Rod.

[Alan Bienlein]

Personally for me I prefer the pipe clamps and the F clamps. About a year ago I was all set to buy some of the bessy k bodies until I ended up actually using them and never like how they worked.