Badly rusted table saw top

[rick carpenter]

I have a badly rusted '50s(?) Craftsman 103 table saw. "Badly" is bad, the underneath is rusted too. I can clean off the top surface just fine, and I could get the bottom sandblasted, but the miter gauge slots are rusted too. How do I derustify them and keep from wallowing them out?

[Gary Herrmann]

Show some pics of both sides of the table please. Pitting may not be a problem, if it isn't deep. You can use electrolysis, scraping or abrasives to remove the rust.

Do you have a miter gauge to check for smoothness or slop in use? Care is required for anything that can affect movement in use. 3/4" MDF and high grit sandpaper (400 is what I use) will let you get the slots smooth. This assume the slots are 3/4. I've never used a Cman TS. Don't use ply, it won't be exact.

[Kevin W Johnson]

I scraped the top of the PM66 I restored, and used a wire wheel to clean the miter slots.

[rick carpenter]

Here are some pics. To do any work on the bottom, I'll first insert some bolts in the bosses. The right slot on the top is in much better shape than the left slot.


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[Kevin W Johnson]

Rick,

Spray that top down in WD-40, and scrape it with a scraper that uses utility knife blades. The difference will be huge. You can follow that up with a sanding block and 320 grit sandpaper. The slots will clean up a good wire wheel.

[Carl Babel]

I used WD-40 and fine grit (maybe 400) wet dry sandpaper on wood blocks that just fit in the slots on an old Grizz. I even made a T-shaped block, to get every corner.

Then a lot of sweat.

[Van Huskey]

First I agree with the others about WD-40 and elbow grease.

Second, the miter gauge outline is too funny!

Third, Kevin the 66 looks awesome! The juxtaposition of the old vs new tech is crazy cool. I would have been hard pressed not to paint the box evergreen and run the "racing stripe" across it as well.

[Myk Rian]

Why does everyone keep using WD-40? It does nothing to cut rust. It helps PREVENT it.

Electrolysis will get the rust out of any pitting in the table. Visit OWWM.org for info.

[Carl Beckett]

From my perspective the WD-40 is more of a lubricant than for rust prevention (could use water I guess, but non water based seems like a better idea)

Electrolysis better - but not sure that is readily available to everyone (and may cost some $$ ??). Showing my ignorance on that - maybe tell us whats involved and if its simple, not messy, and something I can do easily in my own shop, I can think of a couple things I will want to try it on....

My assumption is that you just want to make this back into something useable. If so, wire brush the bottom a little then coat it with something (I use the Boeshield product) and forget about it. Scrape and sand (scotchbrite or 400 wet/dry) the top and wire brush the miter slot and you should have something pretty reasonable. The more you use it, the shinier it will get.

[Richard Coers]

It's a Craftsman, the miter gauge slots are probably already too wide. I agree with the lubricate and scrape method, red Scotchbrite works wonders too.

[Joseph Tarantino]

after and before:

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pretty simple process, but lots of elbow grease.

1. carbide scraper to remove any really gummy or "chunky" dirt, clean with mineral spirits
2. 100 grit dry sandpaper with a flat wooden block, clean with mineral spirits
3. 150 grit dry sandpaper with a flat wooden block, clean with mineral spirits
4. 220 grit dry sandpaper with a flat wooden block, clean with mineral spirits
5. 400 grit wet/dry paper with mineral spirits as a lubricant, clean with mineral spirits
6. buff with dry scotch brite fine pad, clean with mineral spirits
7. paste wax and buff with clean towel

still dead flat and really, really smooth.

regarding the miter slots on my unisaw (which are plain slots like on the OP's c-man saw, i used a piece of 3/4" plywood to conform each grit of paper to the side walls and floor of the miter slots. spendig any manual time cleaning the underside of the table is a complete waste of time, from a functional perspective.

here's how steve shanesy restored the CI top of a unisaw:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSJjN8jvdp4&feature=relmfu

hope this helps.

[Sam Layton]

My vote is for electrolysis. You just need a plastic container large enough to hold your saw top. Or, make your tank. Use a 1x6 or 2x6, and cut it into four lengths to make a square box large enough to hole the top. Lay it on the ground outside. Get some heavy mill plastic, and drape inside to make a tank. Arm and Hammer washing soap, a couple short lengths of re-bar, 12 gage wire, a manual small battery charger, and you are in business. The good thing about electrolysis is it does not remove any metal.

Kevin, your saw turned out great. Do you have any photo's of your restore you could post?

Joseph, I can not believe the difference in your top. Do you have photo's of your restore?

Sam

[Stephen Cherry]

WD40 then scrape. The wd40 seems to soften things up for scraping, and keeps the dust down.

Then make a paste with Barkeepers Friend (walmart or grocery store near the abrasive cleaners) and water and use a scotchbrite pad. Barkeepers friend is a mild acid with abrasive and eats the rust faster than the metal. It needs to be kept moist with a spray bottle of water while on the top, but it can give great results without taking away the metal.

[Carl Beckett]

My vote is for electrolysis. You just need a plastic container large enough to hold your saw top. Or, make your tank. Use a 1x6 or 2x6, and cut it into four lengths to make a square box large enough to hole the top. Lay it on the ground outside. Get some heavy mill plastic, and drape inside to make a tank. Arm and Hammer washing soap, a couple short lengths of re-bar, 12 gage wire, a manual small battery charger, and you are in business. The good thing about electrolysis is it does not remove any metal.

Kevin, your saw turned out great. Do you have any photo's of your restore you could post?

Joseph, I can not believe the difference in your top. Do you have photo's of your restore?

Sam

Thanks Sam. So the rebar just gets put into the solution? (or does one end need attached to the tabletop?)

Any idea how long? (or is it one of those, 'until its clear of rust' things? A day? an hour?)

Any before/after pics?

[Andrew Pitonyak]

From my perspective the WD-40 is more of a lubricant than for rust prevention (could use water I guess, but non water based seems like a better idea)

I would have said that WD-40 is a penetrating oil, it is very good at "getting in there". Of course, now that I have disagreed with you, on that point, I do agree with your point that I never considered it a rust remover per say. It will certainly help lube while removing, penetrate into those rusted spots, and then act as a medium to move the rust out when you are using your elbow grease (so to speak).



Electrolysis better - but not sure that is readily available to everyone (and may cost some $$ ??). Showing my ignorance on that - maybe tell us whats involved and if its simple, not messy, and something I can do easily in my own shop, I can think of a couple things I will want to try it on....

My assumption is that you just want to make this back into something useable. If so, wire brush the bottom a little then coat it with something (I use the Boeshield product) and forget about it. Scrape and sand (scotchbrite or 400 wet/dry) the top and wire brush the miter slot and you should have something pretty reasonable. The more you use it, the shinier it will get.

I was also thinking about the electrolysis, but it would take a pretty big tub to contain the top. I would be inclined hit it with a product meant to remove rust, and there are many whose job it is to do exactly that. I have only tried a few of them, however. I restored a rusty table saw top using an environmentally friendly rust remover, but it still required some elbow grease. I think that I used steel wool. Had not thought to use scotch bright pads.

[Kevin W Johnson]

My vote is for electrolysis. You just need a plastic container large enough to hold your saw top. Or, make your tank. Use a 1x6 or 2x6, and cut it into four lengths to make a square box large enough to hole the top. Lay it on the ground outside. Get some heavy mill plastic, and drape inside to make a tank. Arm and Hammer washing soap, a couple short lengths of re-bar, 12 gage wire, a manual small battery charger, and you are in business. The good thing about electrolysis is it does not remove any metal.

Kevin, your saw turned out great. Do you have any photo's of your restore you could post?

Joseph, I can not believe the difference in your top. Do you have photo's of your restore?

Sam

Sam,

Here's my thread on the restoration.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?182051-Powermatic-66-Restoration

[Kevin W Johnson]

First I agree with the others about WD-40 and elbow grease.

Second, the miter gauge outline is too funny!

Third, Kevin the 66 looks awesome! The juxtaposition of the old vs new tech is crazy cool. I would have been hard pressed not to paint the box evergreen and run the "racing stripe" across it as well.


Thanks Van. I used white vinyl (think sign making) to put the stripe back on.

[rick carpenter]

Joseph T said: "spendig any manual time cleaning the underside of the table is a complete waste of time, from a functional perspective."

Hmmm, I never would have thought to leave the bottom as is once I get it functional. But, I've had it for a couple of years now all apart and it certainly hasn't gotten worse. You may have something there. Thanks.

And thanks to all for the good slot cleaning suggestions!

[Joseph Tarantino]

......Joseph, I can not believe the difference in your top. Do you have photo's of your restore?

Sam


here are some pics of the work i did on the unisaw which are displayed in no particular order as i'm not very good yet managing pictures on this forum. first pic is motor data plate. next is the innards when i got it home memorial day weekend 2012. third is returning the motor to the cabinet after the bearings were replaced (75 lbs is a lot of motor). fourth is the magnetic switch once i replaced the power cord to the motor. fifth is the cleaing of the cabinet a' la the steve shanesy videos. sixth is the motor power cord that i replaced. it actually started and ran with that cord but once i opened the motor's junction box, it's insulation fell apart in my hands. seventh is the innards with the arbor bracket removed. eigth is the saw on the day it came home. that's the top with the rails and the fence stuck to it in the background.

i wasn't after a full restoration. to be honest, i'm not sure i'm going to keep the saw. i got it for free (seller asked $100 for the unisaw and a c-man rebate eligible decrepit RAS. turned in the RAS so OOP = $0). with nothng at risk but ~ $40 in gas money, i thought i'd see what all the "old arn" unisaw hoopla was about. guess i'll continue in a second post as there's apparently a pic limit per post?.

[Joseph Tarantino]

oops. accidental duplicate post.

[Joseph Tarantino]

here are a few more pics. first and second are moving the saw off the movers dolly and onto the mobile base. three is the fence rails restored as shanesy lays out in his unisaw restoration videos. four is a floor a made in pieces for the bottom of the base. five is the 4" DC port (with the fan on the TEFC motor installed along with the motor cover, DC is pretty good). six is the fence, which i disassembled, cleaned and reassembled (it works just like the OEM fence on my ridgid 2412). seventh is the rebuilt arbor bracket, fresh from the sawcenter in springfield, mass. my first attempt at replacing the bearings worked, but it turned out the arbor had been worn down in the middle. replacement appeared to be the only option. they aren't cheap but they are very good and extremely helpful. a last post will put up a couple of finished product pics.

[Myk Rian]

Thanks Sam. So the rebar just gets put into the solution? (or does one end need attached to the tabletop?)

Any idea how long? (or is it one of those, 'until its clear of rust' things? A day? an hour?)

Any before/after pics?
Electrolysis explained.
Look up electrolysis or spooging on owwm.org

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[Joseph Tarantino]

lastly a few finished pics. i made the motor cover out of 1/2" mdf as i had some lying around. surprisingly, the top took a considerable amount of effort to align. but once i filed the 4 holes in the cabinet a little larger, it all fell into place. the blade is now within +/- .001" relative to the miter slot and the fence and cuts wonderfully. i've added oak faces to both sides of the fence and have fabricated some ZCIs. next is a delta splitter from the sawcenter for safety. if anyone knows where i can find one, outside of searching ebay daily for less than the $50 they want, i'd appreciate a link. if i keep the saw for a while, i'll follow up this post with a better review. my appologies to the OP for these posts. i've no intention of hijacking his thread but only attempted to reply to sam's question.
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[Sam Layton]

Thanks Sam. So the rebar just gets put into the solution? (or does one end need attached to the tabletop?)

Any idea how long? (or is it one of those, 'until its clear of rust' things? A day? an hour?)

Any before/after pics?


Carl,

I have used the electrolysis only a couple of times, and I was impressed how well it worked. I have a old bandsaw top that is rusted, and I am going to be using the electrolysis to clean it up. Using the electrolysis not only takes the rust off, it removes any paint as well. Use the smallest plastic container you can. For my bandsaw top, and/or tablesaw top, I am going to cut a 1x6 into four pieces about 28" long. Nail them together into a square. Place it on the ground outside, and drape heavy mill plastic over the 1x6 to make a tub. I am going to use the plastic painters pyramids to hold the top off the bottom of the tub. Fill with enough water to cover the top a couple of inches. Now place about two pieces of rebar about 5/8" x 12" or so in the bottom of the tub. I use 12 gage electrical wire, and connect the wire to one of the rebars on one side of the tub, then to the other piece of rebar, bring the wire above the water. Next connect another 12 gage wire to the saw top. Make sure all connections are solid.

Now you need a small manual battery charger. I think mine is like 10 amps or so. The battery charger has to be manual, not an automatic one. Connect the red lead to the rebar, and connect the black lead to the saw top. Use Arm and Hammer washing soda. Use about 1/2 cup to 5 gal of water or so. Plug the charger in, and you will see bubbles start to appear. In time the rust transferses from the saw top to the rebar. The process is not fast. You need to check it every now and then. I think the saw top with my setup will take all day, and maybe all night. However, the results are very good.

After the process is finished, remove the part, scrub it down with a brush and water. Dry it off as fast as you can. If you get a little flash rusting before you get it dried off, it is easy to remove. Treat the top ASAP with wax or what ever you treat your cast iron with. I don't have any photo's.

Kevin, Thanks for the link. I remember now seeing it. You sure did an outstanding job.

Joseph, Thanks for the photo's. Good job as well

Sam

[Sam Layton]

Joseph,

If you do decide to keep the saw, be sure to post your results.

Sam

[Andrew Howe]

Another step I do to minimize flash fust is to make a mix of alcohol and water in an old spay bottle. Spray it on to remove crude and hit it with a blast of air . The alcohol allows the water to flash off quicker than plan water:)