New woodworker looking for saw sharpening advice

[Duncan Ainslie]

Hi all,

Despite having no interest in high school, I now have a growing interest in woodwork. So far I've done a few basic bits and pieces under the guidance of my Grandpa using his old tools but am just starting out on what will hopefully be a nice oak box. However, the saws are starting to blunt and are really in need of a sharpening. I've had little success in finding anywhere to sharpen saws locally (in Scotland, UK) so am considering having a crack at sharpening them myself - if I'm going to get into woodwork it seems a worthwhile skill to learn.

However, I don't have any of the required tools for saw sharpening and my grandpa only has a limited knowledge (he had a colleague do his for him!) so, while I've plenty of books/articles that detail the actual process, I thought I'd seek some advice on what tools I need.

I've two saws in particular that need sharpening, a 22tpi dovetail saw and a 12tpi tenon saw. For handsaw's I'm using plastic handled 'throwaway' type saws. I've also got another handsaw that is in quite a bad state that I may use as a test subject which is about 18tpi.

The list of required tools I've got so far:

A Saw-Set - http://www.axminster.co.uk/somax-no-250-saw-setting-pliers-prod836747/ (with the blue handled, 12-26tpi version for my saws)
A file to even out the tops of the teeth - http://www.axminster.co.uk/vallorbe-vallorbe-swiss-hand-files-prod22596/ (which cut and length are recommended?)
and useful gadget to accompany it http://www.axminster.co.uk/veritas-veritas-jointer-and-edger-prod22608/
And finally files to shape the teeth themselves - These: http://www.axminster.co.uk/nicholson-nicholson-double-ended-saw-files-prod22815/ or these: http://www.axminster.co.uk/vallorbe-vallorbe-swiss-saw-files-prod22603/ (can someone translate the slim and extra slim on these?)? - One of the books I have recommend a 6" file for 18-22tpi and a 7" for 12-14tpi saws, does this sound correct?



I've already got a vice and some suitable timber to hold the saw in place.

If anyone can confirm or correct me on what I need it would be much appreciated.

Very best,
Duncan

[Jim Koepke]

Duncan,

Welcome to the Creek.

Here is a chart I use for selecting three sided saw files.

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All the files will have the same 60º corners since they are equilateral triangles. The slim and extra slim designations indicate a smaller triangle. This also determines the size of the edge where the faces of the file meet. The size of the file will determine the inside corner between the teeth.

There are a few great sites on the web to help you with your saws.

One is the Vintage saws library > http://www.vintagesaws.com/cgi-bin/frameset.cgi?left=main&right=/library/library.html <

Another good site on hand saws is the Norse Wood Smith > http://norsewoodsmith.com/content/sharpening-hand-saws <

There is a lot more on saws on both sites if you do a little navigation.

Finally, don't overlook information right here on SMC. There is a section near the top of the Neanderthal Haven, Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs that has many helpful posts including a few on saws.

Here is a link to a simple guide I made to help when sharpening crosscut teeth:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?180440-Saw-Fleam-Bevel-Gauge

Good luck and hopefully you can send us some pictures.

Who knows, maybe you can get to sharpening saws good enough to earn some extra income.

jtk

[David Posey]

I do not think that you necessarily need the jointer to use with the mill file. I usually use a smooth cut 8" as you are not removing very much metal, you are just trying to brighten the tips of all the teeth.

Jim's chart on saw files is a good one. You will find a few others around the web that vary slightly in what they reccomend. The important part is that the tooth filed to the desired depth not go more than half way up the side of the file and that the file not be overly large. Otherwise you are cutting with the middle part of the file twice, or you are not making use of all of the flat of the file. A file that is too large will also not come to as sharp a point as you would usually like in your gullets.

Make sure you have enought light to file well. Even for those with good eyes, this is essential. It's good to have two or three lights you can position how you want in order to see well. It's also nice to have the vise at an appropriate height. The vintagesaw link covers all of this, but that can be a lot of info to digest and I just wanted to point these things out.

[Michael Ray Smith]

Duncan,

Allow me to add my welcome to Jim's. I'm also relatively new to woodworking. You're off to a good start by developing some skills at sharpening saws, and Jim has given you some good ideas for finding more information. I'll just add that I also have the Somax saw set, and I've found that it's easy to use and works just fine for me. Being drawn more and more to older tools, I recently bought an old Atkins saw set, but it wasn't because I was unhappy with the Somax.

The other piece of advice I'd give you as a fellow newbie is to take advantage of your Grandpa's knowledge and guidance. My father did a little woodworking and furniture refinishing when I was a kid. I remember watching him, but I wasn't interested in doing it myself and didn't pay much attention. I didn't develop my own interest until long after he was gone, and every time I try to pick up a new skill, I wish I could ask him how to do it.

Oh, one other thing. . . Don't be reluctant to ask for advice here at the 'Creek. There are lots of folks here like Jim with years and years of experience who are happy to share their knowledge. And when they do, pay attention to it.

Enjoy!!

[Jacob Nothstine]

Here is a good web page a lot of good information and links.
http://www.badaxetoolworks.com/is-my-saw-worth-tuning-up.html

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

depending on the woods you're working and the set of the saw to begin with, you may very well not need a saw set. A lot of the vintage saws one comes across "in the wild" have too much set to begin with, although I find this more the case with handsaws than back saws. Of course, if your grandfathers saws were well taken care of, they may have just the right amount of set. That said, unless you remove a lot of the height of the teeth in the sharpening process, you still may not need to add more set. Not that a saw set is a bad thing to have, but if you're on a budget, you may very well be able to get away without one for a while. Have a go at it - I'm no saw sharpening expert, but it wasn't nearly as difficult as I feared, and I find a saw that's sharp, even if the teeth aren't the best shape afterwards, still cuts better than a dull one with perfectly formed teeth.

I found Ron Herman's saw sharpening DVD from Popular Woodworking quite helpful, and wish I had seen it earlier. I believe it's available on their streaming site, if that's easier for you than getting a physical copy.

[Mike Allen1010]

Hi Duncan, welcome to the Creek!

Good for you for giving it a go with sharpening your hand saws! Even if your first couple effort still come out exactly the way you would like, they will still cut much better than a dull saw.

You've got lots of good advice here already-- the online resources that Jim and Jacob mentioned are both excellent.

22 and 12 PPI are both very small teeth and a bit tougher to learn on than larger teeth, but not impossible. You will definitely need some magnification along with the good light that David recommended. I like to use a magnifying visor, but whatever works for you.

The other tool that would be helpful for you would be a decent caliper that will allow you to measure the width of the saw plate and the amount of set your adding (width of the outside edges of the teeth).

Be cautious with the blue and gold saw sets you indicated. Even at their finest setting they will I likely have much more set than you need, particularly for the fine tooth backsaws you mentioned. Start with setting a half an inch of teeth at the heel of the saw and then measure how much set you've added before you do all the teeth.

Ultimately you may want to consider an old saws set like a Stanley 42 X - that has a sliding anvil that will allow you to adjust your set from 0 to whatever you need.

Good luck! Learning to sharpen your saws can really go a long way towards enhancing the fun and satisfaction of hand tool woodworking so stick with it -- you'll be glad you did.

All the best, Mike

[Duncan Ainslie]

Thank you all for the warm welcome and the wealth of advice.

Plenty of reading for me to get on with, and then, fingers crossed, onto some successful saw sharpening!