Would you pay $20 for this bench plane?

[Mike Palmowski]

I am new to hand tools and woodworking in general. I have come across this hand plane in a CL ad and would like to know what you think of the asking price of $20 as well as any other information you might be able to tell me based on this one picture that I have. Thanks!




237698

[scott spencer]

Who's it made by?

[Mike Palmowski]

I emailed the seller asking and he didn't know, nor was there any markings other than a stamped #4 on the front. I could always buy myself a new plane, but like everyone else I like Deals, just don't know enough about woodworking to know a deal when it hits me in the face... LOL

[Jeff Duncan]

Without knowing who it's made by and what condition it's in I'd put a value anywhere between say nothing and $100+;) Old Stanley's are worth a lot of dough b/c guys decided they're worth collecting??? As such they can get good money. On the other hand if it's a newer Buck Bro's or equivalent it's value is much, much lower. Then if it has a warped body, broken pieces, or other damage not visible in the pic.....it's essentially worthless:(

I like used tools too....but I believe it's more important to know what your doing with used than it is new! If you don't know much about planes you may want to consider buying a decent quality new one first and learning a bit about them before starting to collect used.....or not;)

good luck,
JeffD

[Carl Beckett]

Hi Mike,

My $.02

That could be a perfectly tuned, usable plane as is. Or it could be something that someone just had lying around and never used. The problem with buying used older planes like this as a newbie is, that unless you take the time to learn how to tune them and get them really sharp - then the experience isnt going to be that great.

At least that was my experience. So I didnt fully appreciate hand tools (the same was true for card scrapers, chisels, etc etc).

So my recommendation to someone starting out is to just purchase a LV Low Angle Jack (and a good block plane also) - and a good sharpening method of your choice. This will increase the likelihood of good results early on, and then when you purchase your 5th/20th plane you can yard sale shop and know what it will take to get it usable.

Now days, I find myself doing more and more with hand tools and less and less with power equipment - primarily because Im developing more skill and knowledge, to the point that its just plain easier in many cases.

[David Nelson1]

It certainly has all the casting chararistics of a raised knob Stanley.

[Mike Palmowski]

Thanks for the advice guys, I guess new it is. I had never even thought of the negatives on buying a used tool (that I don't know how to use) in addition to the possible needed service to the tool, would probably have made for such a difficult time that I would have set it on the self to collect dust. I guess I will look into what a couple new planes will cost me and leave the relics for those who know what the heck they are doing.

[John R Hoppe]

As a tool to use I would pay between $10 and $20, depending on the condition. It looks to all be there so that is a plus. Remember that you will need to check for flatness, sharpen and learn how to set it up for use. Also since it was listed on CL, how much will it cost to drive there and drive home? Gas is very expensive.

As a collector item, if it is indeed something special, then there is no limit to the price.

[HANK METZ]

I picked up a Dunlap Smoother for $5 from a thrift store last month, just needs tuning up as it looks like the guy just bought it, and trimmed one door right out of the box and put it away and never used it again. On the way researching it I found a nifty way to tell who makes them, even if a private label like Dunlap- sold by Sears, made by Sargent.

Lateral adjusters (http://www.brasscityrecords.com/toolworks/graphics/plane%20id.html)

- Beachside Hank
Do not use remaining fingers as push sticks.

[Stephen Cherry]

Thanks for the advice guys, I guess new it is. I had never even thought of the negatives on buying a used tool (that I don't know how to use) in addition to the possible needed service to the tool, would probably have made for such a difficult time that I would have set it on the self to collect dust. I guess I will look into what a couple new planes will cost me and leave the relics for those who know what the heck they are doing.

Um, wrong answer. Even plopping down the 300 dollars for a new Lie neilson plane does not enter you into the world of hand tool use. You need to know how to sharpen it, set the blade, etc whether it is new or old. There is no escaping this.

Same goes for power tools. Say you need a table saw, and buy one new, do you really think that it will come aligned and ready for use? THis would be a big assumption and would probably not be the case. Any tool, from a simple marking gauge, to a multifunction combination machine, requires the owner to take possession of it. THere is no escaping this.

My guess is that I could get that plane in the picture to make a nice shaving in 20 minutes or less; and I am certainly not a plane guru by any means. But I have taken some time to learn to sharpen, and to set the blade. It's really not that hard, and once you learn it, it will be YOUR tool.

Just my opinions.

[Charlie Gummer]

Hi Mike,

Depending on your budget you should be prepared for a touch of sticker shock when looking at high quality new hand planes. The two most popular names thrown about are Lee Valley (makers of the brand Veritas, LV for short) and Lie-Nielsen (LN). Both manufacture very high quality planes but employ somewhat differing design philosophies. Lie-Nielsen, to my knowledge, keeps to a traditional design of bench planes based on the Stanley Bedrock design. Veritas planes embrace new design ideas while also incorporating some traditional elements.

I currently have 2 vintage Stanleys, a #7 and a #6. The #6 has a heavily cambered blade and is meant for removing a fair amount of material as the initial step in preparing stock. I replaced the original blade and chip breaker in the #7 with one from Hock Tools and I keep that one setup for a fine cut for the last steps in jointing faces and edges flat. I purchased the #6 from a fellow creeker setup and ready to go, the #7 came off of Ebay and took a fair number of hours in tuning to get it performing as well as it does.

When evaluating old planes the things to look for are:

- Damage: Cracks in the base casting can be bad but not always critical depending on depth and location. Cracks in knobs and totes (the wood bits) are more easily dealt with.

- Sole: The sole of the plane (the bottom surface) needs to be flat. This is more important in longer planes (like my #7) that are used for flattening stock. The critical areas are the toe (front), the area just in front of the mouth and the heel (back). The sole can be lapped using coarse sandpaper on a flat surface (float glass, granite and machine tops like table saws are useable)

- Frog: The frog is the movable support for the blade that is bolted to the base of the plane. The face that the blade rests on must be flat. The interface between the frog and the base must also be flat and the frog must seat evenly in the base.

- Blade/Chip breaker: The blade should have a decent amount of useable life left. Avoid any that have large pits near the cutting edge.

I have 3 planes from Lee Valley: the bevel up (BU) smoother, the large shoulder plane and the skew block plane. I've only ahd the opportunity to setup and use the smoother and it is really a joy to use.

I suggest you ask around in the Neanderthal Haven forum here, there is a wealth of information in regards to both new planes and re-habbing old iron.

Regardless of whether you choose new or old planes you will also need to invest in a system for sharpening the blades. It's very common to start with sandpaper glued to glass as this method is a small initial investment in materials. I currently use Shapton Glass stones and a Lee Valley MKII honing guide.

Charlie

[Matt McColley]

short answer....

yes

[Tom Scott]

It appears to be an older Stanley, but those would be clearly marked as such on the chipbreaker and the casting, so who knows. If an older Stanley #4, then yes I would pay $20 for it. If some off brand, then maybe $10-$15 (max). It appears to be in good shape, whatever it is. And a #4 (along with a block plane) is a great starter plane for someone new to these.
I started my journey in hand tools with older tools, and actually think that is a good way to go. Some have suggested it's easier starting with new tools, and while this may be true, I don't think you learn as much that way. By taking it apart, cleaning, fettling and getting it in good working order you will learn a lot more than by pulling it out of a box.
BUT, and this is a huge BUT, no plane will be worth anything if you can't sharpen it. And most have no idea what sharp really is until they have finally experienced it.
Check out the neanderthal section. You can read weeks on there and learn a ton.

Good luck,

[Carl Beckett]

You know what - I could recommend starting out with used tools. BUT - I would recommend you pair up with someone experienced and skilled in tuning and using it, and plan on just spending a day together going through setting it up, adjusting, sharpening, etc etc.

If you could find someone to guide you it would be hugely helpful in getting up the learning curve - and very possibly someone in this community close by that would be willing.

My experience is what Tom states: I didnt know what I didnt know. So 'thought' I had it sharp and cutting well but absolutely did not. Once I experienced it, a big new world opened up for me. (and it took several years before I had that experience).

[Lee Schierer]

If you don't have a hand plane, then $20 is a pretty good price if the castings are not broken. Sharpening and tuning will make it work better. Sharp planes are a pleasure to use dull ones are a pain. If you buy it stop over the the Neander (Dark) side and get some help on setting it up and getting it sharp.

[Van Huskey]

I am absolutely not a handtool guru but my suggestion for a new plane user is to get a plane that is ready to use (although even then it will need sharpening VERY soon). This can be a Veritas or L-N which is usable out of the box or a plane that has been fettled by someone that knows what they are doing. My reasoning is it gives you the ability to immediately see what a proper plane can do and strive to always keep your plans as good if not better. Then you have a proper benchmark to judge plane by. A block plane or a #4 bench plane will be in the lower price end and one you will get a ton of use out of.

[Pat Barry]

Yes I would based on your picture. 1st hand, if the adjuster works and there is nor damage then definitely

[rick carpenter]

$20 might be a good learning experience price, but that's easy to say since its your money not mine. :) I'd say a better choice is to look through this site for some hand plane threads to get a feel for what you might want. Depending on where you live there might be a woodworkers club or you could call the shop teacher at your high school if he's an old timer, for advice. Like on this site, tool people love to talk about tools. Then go to garage sales or flea markets and spend your $20 or less on an old plane you can inspect (I like old planes and haven't bought a new one in over 20 years).

[Gary Herrmann]

Look for cracks in the castings. Bring a square or something that will let you check the sole for flatness. See if everything moves freely. See if there is slop in the tote and the handle. $20 isn't bad, but you will have to spend time tuning it. And you can always get a new chipbreaker and iron. If you don't buy new parts, all you spend it time tuning - which is educational anyway.

You can also keep looking. I've seen similar planes go for $5, but that's been awhile.

[Carl Beckett]

Just as a reference.

Woodcraft has a clearance on #4 Groz planes for $13.59.

I bought one (actually, I bought two... this one and another one with a similar low price - figured I could use them on stuff where I didnt want to use my good ones).

Spent a couple hours with it, and never did get it to cut well. Various reasons for this I think, but Im still not experienced enough to tell you exactly why.... So its piled in a corner destined for yard sale (more likely I will try again someday when I have more time to kill - maybe 5 years from now)

Having said all that my guess is that plane in the picture is MUCH higher quality than the Groz. I would 'guess'. Its the little things that matter, and not always obvious to a new user.

Yes, find someone here that is close by and willing to spend an afternoon with you. Education is worth more than the tool... (and then you can purchase used tools with confidence and save the $$)

[David Weaver]

That doesn't look like a US-made plane. i wouldn't give $20 for it. It looks like a groz or any number of iterations that could've been sold under some rebranding at a big box store. If it says "made in usa" on it somewhere, who knows what it is. I doubt it says that on it, though, and the chrome plated adjuster wheel suggests it's new and imported.