Please Vote - Forum For Casework/cabinet fabrication

[David Nelson1]

A few have asked for this forum and I for one would certainly lurk in the corner since I don't know squawt. Anyway whatcha think?

[johnny means]

I think the projects forum would already include that. I myself would like to see more activity on that particular forum. Though I myself am uncomfortable with posting projects because I'm a professional, I enjoy seeing others creative endeavors.

[Peter Quinn]

Most of what I make is done professionally, it is the intellectual property of others, I cannot legally post pictures of it, I have signed an agreement to this extent. But I love seeing the fine work of those than can post. I feel the project forum is a place to post pictures of finished work or work in progress, but most of the construction and hardware questions end up here, often lost in a sea of "which table saw blade is sharpest" type questions. It would be nice to have an area more focused on casework construction. If you go to a pro site like wood web they break out different professional subsets, like millwork, cabinet making, doors. That's probably too specific for this forum IMO, but a more focused place to share cabinetry info might make both forum areas cleaner and more specific.

[Sam Layton]

I would also like to see a casework/cabinet fabrication forum.

Johnny, you should not feel uncomfortable posting your projects. I would like to see them, and I am sure that everyone else would also.

Sam

[Jefferey Scott]

I would like to see such a forum also. Especially since I'm in the middle of my kitchen project at the moment. I've done more of this type of woodworking in the past few years than furniture building and it would be of great interest to me and I'm sure others.

[Larry Browning]

I personally feel that are too many forums now. For those of you who feel that one is needed, what advantage do you see it will bring?

[Trent Shirley]

I would like to see the new forum. Searching through a generalized project forum for specific information can be time consuming and case / cabinet work is popular and specific enough to have it's own forum.

[Jay Jolliffe]

Were all professionals Peter if we get paid for what we do..

[Julie Moriarty]

Right now there's General Woodworking and Power Tools as one big huge section where you can post just about anything that has to do with woodworking (and power tools). Let's say someone has a question about a specific aspect of woodworking. While waiting for an answer 10-20 more people have questions about woodworking and/or power tools. That person's post gets pushed down quickly and soon is off the first page. It's also a lot harder to find posts about something you're needing help with when the section is so huge.

I like the idea of a Woodworking section with sub sections related to woodworking and a separate tool section. But that's just me.

[scott vroom]

Well said Julie.


there's General Woodworking and Power Tools as one big huge section where you can post just about anything that has to do with woodworking (and power tools). Let's say someone has a question about a specific aspect of woodworking. While waiting for an answer 10-20 more people have questions about woodworking and/or power tools. That person's post gets pushed down quickly and soon is off the first page. It's also a lot harder to find posts about something you're needing help with when the section is so huge.

I like the idea of a Woodworking section with sub sections related to woodworking and a separate tool section. But that's just me.[/QUOTE]

[Sam Murdoch]

Maybe it's power tools that need its own forum.

[johnny means]

Maybe it's power tools that need its own forum.

I'm sure that would quickly take the place of this forum as the primary destination on SMC.

[Matt Meiser]

I vote no because there's already too many. Plus where do you draw the line? Table forum? Chairs? Walnut jewelery boxes with 2 drawers and brass hardware? I'm of course being ridiculous but IMHO splitting things up just reduces traffic.

[Carl Beckett]

Im sure I violate the general structure of the forums, in that I post most things in the general forum.

For example, I often post project related questions in the general forum. Same with hand tool questions, and even finishing questions.

Sometimes I post in one of the other forums, but not always.

If there was a group here interested in cabinet building, Im just wondering why they didnt naturally migrate to the 'projects' section?

(full disclosure: A good portion of my filing system is a 'piling' system..... so I might not be the most disciplined at using organizational structures)

At the same time, the great thing about the internet is that its easy to test. In some ways, I would expect groupings to come and go to adapt to what people were, or were not actually using. So in addition to creating new sections - are there any existing sections that are low enough use they should be combined?

[Peter Quinn]

Were all professionals Peter if we get paid for what we do..

I'm very much in agreement on that. I was not pointing to the fact that I get paid for what I do having much meaning, but that in my present position I get paid to make things that other people have designed, mostly, and thus I cannot post pictures of this work in the project forum. Even though my hands may have turned rough lumber into a functional and possibly aesthetically pleasing object, and I may have had a role in defining the construction details, the work is not mine. So I am left with advice as an outlet, an opportunity to share what I have learned on my own and from the veteran professional cabinet makers with which I work. And to learn from all the other crafts people that take the time to offer their experience and add to the discussion. This puts most of my posts here in general woodworking. I don't see many discussions in the project forum, though it is a great outlet that used to be contained here in general wood working not so long ago. Making projects and instruments separate forums I felt was an excellent change. Those boards benefit from a slower moving but more thorough review by participants IMHO. As the ultimate evidence of this I would point to the fact that in 2003 none other than Mark Singer posted pics of a stunning coffee table he built that quickly fell off the board for 5 YEARS, only to be rediscovered several times. Yes, the first response to his OP was in 2008. I discovered this while poking through archives trying to discover if the creek had changed and if so how.

I have long since ceased to care what saw blade, BS, TS, shop vac, dust collector, plunge router, etc a given person should buy, I don't buy tool guides, I steer away from discussions about how best to outfit a shop. This is not a judgmental statement, its just where I'm at presently. This thread sort of spun off the other thread about where all the wood workers had gone here at the creek. I'd argue that wood workers at all levels remain present here in strong numbers; a myriad of people using a wide range of techniques to MAKE things, all sorts of things, from the most humble to truly spectacular. My argument for a "cabinetmaking" forum is that at this point threads about the "craft" of woodworking have become intertwined with threads about the "tools" of wood working, and frankly in my mind the two are only vaguely related. Often IME those deeply concerned about the craft aspects almost don't care what tools they are using as long as these tools are getting the job done. I enjoy have enjoyed both but not equally at all times.

To me this large general forum is sort of like having a yoga studio/sports bar/shooting range/book club meeting all in the same place each night. I suppose they can all coexist though often one runs the risk of getting crowded out by another.

[scott vroom]

I personally feel that are too many forums now. For those of you who feel that one is needed, what advantage do you see it will bring?

Larry, how would adding a Cabinet Maker forum diminish your SMC experience?

[scott vroom]

I vote no because there's already too many. Plus where do you draw the line? Table forum? Chairs? Walnut jewelery boxes with 2 drawers and brass hardware? I'm of course being ridiculous but IMHO splitting things up just reduces traffic.

Matt, I think the reduction in traffic is a key benefit of creating a cabinet making forum. The general tool/woodworking forum is too busy; new posts get quickly moved down the list and thus don't get the attention they otherwise would in a slower paced forum. I, like a previous poster, have little interest in "what is the best blade/bandsaw/TS/orbital sander" on ad naseum posts; those discussions dominate the general forum.

I believe SMC would benefit greatly by breaking up the general wood/tool forum into "power tools" and "cabinet making" forums.

[scott vroom]

Keith, the poll is closed. What say you?

[Bill ThompsonNM]

I would like to see woodworking separated from power abd hand tools. Woodworking could subsume the projects forum snd imclude cabinetmaking and furniture forums

[Keith Outten]

I opened the poll back up so we can get more feedback. Only 92 people have responded to this question, we need more comments if we are going to start a new forum.

Lets here from you guys and gals...let us know what you think!
.

[Matt Meiser]

I like Bills idea.

[scott vroom]

Cabinet Making and Furniture Making are unique and highly popular disciplines. Each deserves a dedicated forum. I don't agree with those that want to lump these specialized disciplines into a generic "woodworking" forum...yawn. In a cabinet making forum, the pace will be slower and the responses will be higher caliber.

On the other hand, it could very well be there are an insufficient number of contributors on SMC that are focused on cabinet making. Vote now!! C'mon guys, let's shake up this site and give it a breath of fresh air.

[Kenneth Speed]

I've been following this discussion but haven't weighed in until now. I, like Bill, see the Projects Forum as essentially being the Cabinet Making and Woodworking Forum while the General Woodworking Forum should be retitled Woodworking Machinery and Power Tools. Scott asserts that cabinet making and furniture making are unique disciplines while I see them as very slightly different branches of the same tree so I don't see a need to distinguish them with two fora.

[phil harold]

I voted no, the file tree is already to fragmented and confusing

Woodworking by Hand and Specialties, Woodworking Projects, and Woodworking Articles and Reviews should be all under Woodworking Topics
I would also get rid of Woodworking by Hand and Specialties and just list them under Woodworking Topics

I would vote for a Casework topic if it was placed under Woodworking Topics

That's my 2¢ on it

[Jesse Tutterrow]

I don't see a need for a separate forum for cabinetry. Instead, we need to encourage people to post cabinet type questions in the Projects forum and we need to support that forum by reading and answering questions there (people will post wherever they think they will get the best answer).

[Carl Beckett]

Ok, some more comments (which I guess now makes $.04)

Building cabinets is a project - should go under projects.

Power tools (use, safety, etc) questions is what gets most posted in the general forum.

Less categories is more in my opinion (let the frequency of use determine whether it stays as a category) - I think its just as important to be able to take categories away that are not being used, as it is to add categories. Let it be a little dynamic (maybe an annual review of hit counts and adjust categories each year). This way it matters less because it will have to sustain itself - if it doesnt, it fades away.

[Myk Rian]

Looks like the YES votes are winning by a wide margin.

[scott vroom]

Building cabinets is a project - should go under projects.


Cabinets are a business for myself and others on this site. You could throw any aspect of woodworking under "Projects". Following your logic we should combine Neander, Turners, Carvers, Boats, Musical, Finish, and Birdfeeders under a "Projects" umbrella.





I think its just as important to be able to take categories away that are not being used, as it is to add categories. Let it be a little dynamic (maybe an annual review of hit counts and adjust categories each year). This way it matters less because it will have to sustain itself - if it doesnt, it fades away.

I agree completely. Let's see if Cabinet Making can stand on it's own 2 feet as a separate forum; if it fails, it goes. What's the downside?

[Shawn Pixley]

The points people make are good about the General Woodworking sometimes getting over crowded. However, I am resistant to something as specifc as "cabinet making". Possibly it is the title as I don't build cabinetry unless pressed. If general woodworking was subdivided into project questions (cabinetry, furniture, and other items) and power tools, that might work. I see the projects section further down as primarily a gallery of finished work rather than an an advice seeking forum.

However, too often when forums are too subdivided, there is a lack of traffic and the site suffers a slow death due to nt enough traffic.

Just one man's opinion

[Ryan Baker]

I'm with Bill. What would help the most would be to separate the tools discussion from the woodworking techniques (we already have a forum for woodworking projects). A tools forum could be merged with the workshops forum nicely. Frankly, there isn't enough volume of techniques discussion on SMC to justify splitting it up into smaller categories. As mentioned, where does that end? This debate has happened on every forum I have ever been on and more subforums never seems to work out.

If there is enough volume for a cabinetmaking forum to stand on its own, then give it a forum. That also requires moderators, forum disruption, etc. I hardly ever see cabinetmaking threads now, so it seems unlikely the traffic exists (though separation may bring in some additional new traffic).

[John Coloccia]

Were I the grand poobah of SMC, I would:

1) Split "General Woodworking and Power Tools" into two forums - "Power Tools" and "General Woodworking"
2) add a "Jigs and Techniques" forum...that would make for a nice collection that is easy to search and browse through

That takes the clutter of power tools out of the woodworking discussions, and vice versa. I don't see value in splitting cabinetry off from furniture making, box making, stair building, etc. I would see it as detrimental because you wouldn't have the cross pollination of the different disciplines collaborating. A quick scan reveals that there isn't so much actual woodworking being discussed that keeping it in one forum would be confusing. Taking the power tool discussions out, though, would really help clean it up.

I do also see some value in organizing all of the various jigs and general woodworking techniques that might apply to ANY particular discipline. For example, maybe a leg tapering jig belongs in there. Maybe a technique for making moulding with your table saw belongs there. I might put my fingerboard tapering jig in there, which is easily adaptable to any other tapering task. Years from now someone could browse through there and pick up hints and tricks for doing all sorts of things that would never have occurred to him. Sometimes it's not a matter of just searching for the answer to the question of "How do I make a jig to do THIS?" because sometimes you don't even know you want to do something until you see someone else do it...and then you think, "Hey, what a great idea!". It's practically impossible to do that now. Everything is in one, amorphous forum and the topics tend to be fairly random from day to day.

I'm not sure how the projects forum got involved in this. I see that as a place to discuss a very specific project you happen to be working on, not a general discussion about building things.

But alas, I ain't no grand poobah. :)

[Pat Barry]

I just wish people would post in the forums that are already there, ie: finishing posts really should go in the finishing forum, woodworking projects (other than turning and musical) should go in the projects forum. Keep the general woodworking for general Q&A (not finishing or projects), tools, etc. DO we need another forum for casework? I'm on the fence, but I have no objection as long as folks post things in the correct location. Also, maybe we should take a good look at the stats for each forum (number of new postings per day, number of viewers per day, activity per discussion post, ect). There may be some that aren't really worth having because of very low usage and specialty nature.

[Larry Browning]

Also, maybe we should take a good look at the stats for each forum (number of new postings per day, number of viewers per day, activity per discussion post, ect). There may be some that aren't really worth having because of very low usage and specialty nature.

Or the opposite. Ones that have so many posts that they are unmanageable. These are the ones that contain so much that the usefulness of search is diminished.
But, what a daunting task that would be to sort through all those thousands of posts to split them up properly. Any volunteers?

[Mike Cruz]

Peter, I have to say that you have a good point. People may perceive that folks have left (though some do), when actually, they migrate. Up until about 2 years ago, I was predominently in the General section...since my background was flatwork. I was also in the shop area...since I was putting together my shop. My involvement here, morphed into gloats on the deals I was getting (many people got "sick" of hearing me gloat...). I "found" turning. And that is where I've been for the last few years. Every once in a while, I poke my head into the General section, but like you, there are only so many what-x-should-I-buy posts that I can stand. I mean, many people helped me out, and in turn, I returned the favor, but after giving the same advice 10 times, you end up breezing over those posts.

Now, I find myself, in Classifieds, D&D, and Turning. At 4,325 posts, I'm alive in the forum...just not where I started because that ran its course for me. A separate forum might be good for those that have outlive the usefullness of the General section, but still want to participate.

[Alan Lightstone]

I think a separate power tools forum makes a great deal of sense.

[glenn bradley]

I voted yes as I find working with sheet goods to be a completely different animal than working with solid wood material. I would appreciate a few pointers regarding kitchen cabinets and office fixtures and all that other (often beautiful) veneered, wood trimmed, screwed and stapled stuff. Probably because I work with it so seldom but, I believe I often make things more difficult than they are when it comes to simple carcass, door and drawer work. I make more progress on a walnut hutch than I do on a plywood case and drawers for a given amount of time and I am sure it is from working outside my element. Bring on the know-how from the pros who make such beautiful pieces out of the humble ply and MDO ;-)

P.s. A better search engine and meaningful thread titles could help sift through the General forum. Titles like "Hey, check this out" and "Well, I guess I did it now" or "One more time" just hold little meaning over time.

[scott vroom]

So far it's an overwhelming "yes" to a separate cabinet/casework forum.

[Gregory King]

I could fall off of the fence on either side and I'd still be ok, but I find the the General Woodworking Forum is a bit too general. It takes a fair bit of searching at times to find a thread that you really are in a hurry for, such as cabinetry. What the heck, I vote to separate it. There, I feel better now. Greg

[Matt Meiser]

So, if there's a cabinetmaking forum, how do you define cabinetmaking? I'm pretty sure Scott means kitchen/bath type cabinets. I've seen hints in the responses here that others use the more traditional definition which would include just about any casework.

[James Conrad]

There should be a separation between kitchen/bath cabinets and true cabinet and casework.

[Larry Browning]

Shouldn't we have one just for upper kitchen cabinets with inset doors too?
Sheesh!

Sorry, I don't want to stir the pot, but, seriously???? Where do you draw the line?

[scott vroom]

Shouldn't we have one just for upper kitchen cabinets with inset doors too?
Sheesh!

Sorry, I don't want to stir the pot, but, seriously???? Where do you draw the line?

Larry, I'd title the forum "Cabinets/Built-ins/General Casework" This would include cabinetry in all forms, for all rooms in a house/office/shop/garage etc. That's a very broad category and would generate considerable interest IMO. I'd consider Fine Furniture as a separate category or include in the Projects forum.

I'd also create a separate Power Tools forum.

[Larry Browning]

Scott,
My comment was directed more at the one about splitting out kitchen/bath cabinets from other casework.

Also, even if they did split up the GWW/Power Tools, what about all that history? It really wouldn't do any good unless someone or some group went through the whole thing and redirected each post to one or the other of the new forums. How would you propose we do that?

[James Conrad]

Scott,
My comment was directed more at the one about splitting out kitchen/bath cabinets from other casework.


There is a big difference and discipline in work between kitchen cabinets and true cabinet woodwork - if the forum is created I would want to see it concentrated on the later. I could see how the average person would not understand that.

[Matt Meiser]

There is a big difference and discipline in work between kitchen cabinets and true cabinet woodwork - if the forum is created I would want to see it concentrated on the later. I could see how the average person would not understand that.

I'm pretty sure that's exactly the opposite of what Scott was thinking when he started this poll!

[scott vroom]

There is a big difference and discipline in work between kitchen cabinets and true cabinet woodwork - if the forum is created I would want to see it concentrated on the later. I could see how the average person would not understand that.

James, not sure what it is you're trying to convey. Perhaps you could expand your comments a bit for clarification; providing a bit more definition would help.

And by the way, all the woodworkers I know are above average people. ;)

[James Conrad]

Hi Scott,

I would sum up my conveyance with this - kitchen style cabinets have little concern beyond the surface, with true cabinet making every detail, in, out, over and under has care placed upon it - the back of the cabinet is just as important as the front. This moves beyond materials and construction to design, vision and the way woodworking is approached. Its a discussion all on its own.

And, my comment about "average" was not intended to be a shotgun blast.

Good luck with your decision.
James

[scott vroom]

Hi Scott,

I would sum up my conveyance with this - kitchen style cabinets have little concern beyond the surface, with true cabinet making every detail, in, out, over and under has care placed upon it - the back of the cabinet is just as important as the front. This moves beyond materials and construction to design, vision and the way woodworking is approached. Its a discussion all on its own.

And, my comment about "average" was not intended to be a shotgun blast.

Good luck with your decision.
James

James, I think you need to go back and re-read this thread. The proposal on the table is whether to create a "Casework/Cabinet forum. I think everyone here understands the distinction between fine furniture and kitchen cabinets.

[John Coloccia]

James, I think you need to go back and re-read this thread. The proposal on the table is whether to create a "Casework/Cabinet forum. I think everyone here understands the distinction between fine furniture and kitchen cabinets.

But others made other suggestions that should be considered.

[James Conrad]

James, I think you need to go back and re-read this thread. The proposal on the table is whether to create a "Casework/Cabinet forum. I think everyone here understands the distinction between fine furniture and kitchen cabinets.

I read the thread, I thought you were looking for suggestions, I put mine out there based on my view of what I would want to see in a "case and cabinet work" forum. Take it, leave it, love it, hate it - makes no difference to me.

[scott vroom]

Hi Scott,

I would sum up my conveyance with this - kitchen style cabinets have little concern beyond the surface, with true cabinet making every detail, in, out, over and under has care placed upon it - the back of the cabinet is just as important as the front. This moves beyond materials and construction to design, vision and the way woodworking is approached. Its a discussion all on its own.

And, my comment about "average" was not intended to be a shotgun blast.

Good luck with your decision.
James

James highlights an important distinction between run-of-the mill cabinets and high end cabinetry. My vision of a new Cabinet/Casework forum is inclusive of a broad range of cabinetry, including site-built cheap-o and, as James put it: "...true cabinet making every detail, in, out....”
Low and high-end cabinetry incorporate many of the same basic techniques and design elements and should be combined under the same forum banner IMO. I'd draw the line at what I refer to as "high end furniture"; I believe the majority of those projects currently reside in the "Projects" forum.

64% of respondents have expressed a preference for a casework/cabinet making forum. Perhaps it would be productive to discuss parameters; specifically what types of projects would this new forum encompass. What are your thoughts?

[Larry Browning]

Scott,
Do you envision any kind of effort to analyze the threads in the current GWW&PT forum to identify and move the ones that qualify as belonging to this new forum? To me, if that is not done, you are not gaining much. You still won't be able to search within the one forum and be confident of the results. I believe this is true anytime an existing forum is split up into multiple forums.
I really don't see the point of so many specialized forums. To me it just adds confusion as to where something should be posted. I also think it adds work to the already overworked moderators.
My issue has nothing to do with the subject/content of the forum, it has to do with continually narrowing the scope of each one, while leaving threads that belong in the new forum still in the old one. I just do not understand why this is useful. What am I missing?

[scott vroom]

Scott,
Do you envision any kind of effort to analyze the threads in the current GWW&PT forum to identify and move the ones that qualify as belonging to this new forum? To me, if that is not done, you are not gaining much. You still won't be able to search within the one forum and be confident of the results. I believe this is true anytime an existing forum is split up into multiple forums.
I really don't see the point of so many specialized forums. To me it just adds confusion as to where something should be posted. I also think it adds work to the already overworked moderators.
My issue has nothing to do with the subject/content of the forum, it has to do with continually narrowing the scope of each one, while leaving threads that belong in the new forum still in the old one. I just do not understand why this is useful. What am I missing?

Larry, when I do a search I don't limit it to one forum or the other for precisely the reason you give. I search ALL forums for the keyword or phrase I'm interested in, and I suspect most folks here do the same. Unless I'm missing something, I just don't see search as a limiting factor, nor do I see the need to migrate legacy posts to the new forum.

[Larry Browning]

Well then, why is it that you want to do this? What are the advantages of so many forums?

[Mike Cruz]

I think many of you are making this way too complicated. A seperate casework/cabinet forum would encompass all casework and cabinetry. The turning forum doesn't separate out bowls and hollow forms, art vs utilitarian, cheapo vs intricate... If there were to be a separate forum, it would be simply to have a place for those that do something fairly specific other than in a General forum. Why get panties in a bunch over what would be allowed in it? How would you/why would you exclude any kind of a piece of work in a specific forum? Should turners say that one kind is better than the other (regardless of whether or not that is true) and not allow a kind of turning into that forum? These types of distinctions and "arguing" (which is what it is sounding like is going on) is what will KEEP the forum from happening. Just my two cents, but KISS...

[scott vroom]

I think many of you are making this way too complicated. A seperate casework/cabinet forum would encompass all casework and cabinetry. The turning forum doesn't separate out bowls and hollow forms, art vs utilitarian, cheapo vs intricate... If there were to be a separate forum, it would be simply to have a place for those that do something fairly specific other than in a General forum. Why get panties in a bunch over what would be allowed in it? How would you/why would you exclude any kind of a piece of work in a specific forum? Should turners say that one kind is better than the other (regardless of whether or not that is true) and not allow a kind of turning into that forum? These types of distinctions and "arguing" (which is what it is sounding like is going on) is what will KEEP the forum from happening. Just my two cents, but KISS...

So Mike, is that Yes or No vote? lol

[Mike Cruz]

Actually, I'm neither for nor against it. It wouldn't impact me at all. Though, I can see the benefits of having it...

[Larry Edgerton]

I borrowed this from John as I am lazy.....

Were I the grand poobah of SMC, I would:

1) Split "General Woodworking and Power Tools" into two forums - "Power Tools" and "General Woodworking"
2) add a "Jigs and Techniques" forum...that would make for a nice collection that is easy to search and browse through

Thanks John!

Larry

[George Gyulatyan]

One thing that seems to be amiss in these discussions is the fact that many people post in the general woodworking section precisely because it gets the most traffic and because of this is more likely to get attention as opposed to the other sections. So, even if there was a separate forum for casework/cabinetry (which I voted "yes" for), I am sure that people will still post in General section simply because they think they might get more attention there... which will result in having our moderators constantly moving posts :)

[scott vroom]

One thing that seems to be amiss in these discussions is the fact that many people post in the general woodworking section precisely because it gets the most traffic and because of this is more likely to get attention as opposed to the other sections. So, even if there was a separate forum for casework/cabinetry (which I voted "yes" for), I am sure that people will still post in General section simply because they think they might get more attention there... which will result in having our moderators constantly moving posts :)

There are good arguments on both sides of the question of whether to launch a separate cabinet/casework forum.

As an alternative to a new cab/case forum, some have proposed creating a separate Power Tool forum. I think the idea has merit and would go along way toward improving the SMC experience. You can count me among those that would prefer not having to wade through threads about which saw blade is best, which bandsaw should I buy, etc. ad naseum.

[John Lifer]

makes no sense to add another tab. Not enough posts in several of the forums to even visit. Why add another that will only garner a few posts?

[scott vroom]

Nearly 2 of 3 voters favor a separate case/cabinet forum. In addition, a number of folks said that power tools should be a separate forum.

Keith, what are your thoughts? The poll has been open for 2 months, at what point can we draw some conclusions?

[phil harold]

I vote to get the new post link to work like it did!

[scott vroom]

I vote to get the new post link to work like it did!

Not sure how this relates to a poll on adding a case/cabinet forum?

[Larry Browning]

I vote to get the new post link to work like it did!
Phil,
Check out post #3 in this thread about the New Posts feature. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?188314-Forum-Selection
I implemented this as a bookmark so I can click on the bookmark and it takes me straight to a list of just the new posts from only the forums I am interested in. I think this method is actually better than new posts feature Arron setup for us.

[phil harold]

Phil,
Check out post #3 in this thread about the New Posts feature. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?188314-Forum-Selection
I implemented this as a bookmark so I can click on the bookmark and it takes me straight to a list of just the new posts from only the forums I am interested in. I think this method is actually better than new posts feature Arron setup for us.
Thanks!



Not sure how this relates to a poll on adding a case/cabinet forum?
Plain and simple
Easier navigation thru the forum to find the post you want
As I stated before the forum is already too fragmented (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?189724-Please-Vote-Forum-For-Casework-cabinet-fabrication&p=1966494#post1966494) adding a new section is just going to create more kaos
Renaming Categories and and rearranging Subforums is better solution
but,
If they dont have the time, or money to tweak the new posts button, T&M is going to limit changes to the forum as well...

And if it aint broke dont fixit!

[scott vroom]

I just did a quick analysis of the latest 20 pages of the general woodworking and power tool forum. I put posts into one of 3 cagtegories: case/cabinet work; power tools; general woodworking. Here are my results:

499 total posts were examined.

Case/Cabinet: 45 posts (9%)
Power Tools: 268 (54%)
General Woodworking: 186 (37%)

Only 9% of the 499 posts related to case/cabinet projects/techniques, and many of these posts were style related as opposed to technique.

There appears to be relatively little interest among the general SMC population in posting case/cabinet technique topics.

The model for SMC seems to be to segregate lower interest/lower traffic/specialty topics into separate forums (neander, turner, finishing, boat building, musical instruments, etc.). Does case/cabinet work fall into this category?

My vision of a case/cabinet forum was a space where shared methods and techniques would advance the skills/abilities of pro and hobby case/cabinet makers alike. My thinking now is that there may not be enough interest among the SMC population to warrant a separate forum. As an alternative, based on my limited analysis, we should simply rename the existing catch-all forum: "Power Tools (and Everything Else)".

[Leo Graywacz]

I'm very much in agreement on that. I was not pointing to the fact that I get paid for what I do having much meaning, but that in my present position I get paid to make things that other people have designed, mostly, and thus I cannot post pictures of this work in the project forum. Even though my hands may have turned rough lumber into a functional and possibly aesthetically pleasing object, and I may have had a role in defining the construction details, the work is not mine. So I am left with advice as an outlet, an opportunity to share what I have learned on my own and from the veteran professional cabinet makers with which I work. And to learn from all the other crafts people that take the time to offer their experience and add to the discussion. This puts most of my posts here in general woodworking. I don't see many discussions in the project forum, though it is a great outlet that used to be contained here in general wood working not so long ago. Making projects and instruments separate forums I felt was an excellent change. Those boards benefit from a slower moving but more thorough review by participants IMHO. As the ultimate evidence of this I would point to the fact that in 2003 none other than Mark Singer posted pics of a stunning coffee table he built that quickly fell off the board for 5 YEARS, only to be rediscovered several times. Yes, the first response to his OP was in 2008. I discovered this while poking through archives trying to discover if the creek had changed and if so how.

I have long since ceased to care what saw blade, BS, TS, shop vac, dust collector, plunge router, etc a given person should buy, I don't buy tool guides, I steer away from discussions about how best to outfit a shop. This is not a judgmental statement, its just where I'm at presently. This thread sort of spun off the other thread about where all the wood workers had gone here at the creek. I'd argue that wood workers at all levels remain present here in strong numbers; a myriad of people using a wide range of techniques to MAKE things, all sorts of things, from the most humble to truly spectacular. My argument for a "cabinetmaking" forum is that at this point threads about the "craft" of woodworking have become intertwined with threads about the "tools" of wood working, and frankly in my mind the two are only vaguely related. Often IME those deeply concerned about the craft aspects almost don't care what tools they are using as long as these tools are getting the job done. I enjoy have enjoyed both but not equally at all times.

To me this large general forum is sort of like having a yoga studio/sports bar/shooting range/book club meeting all in the same place each night. I suppose they can all coexist though often one runs the risk of getting crowded out by another.

Until it is paid in full it is yours and not theirs.

I'd vote yes to the forum. I do a lot of cabinet making for my clients. They almost never object to the photos being on the internet. Usually just like to have the pictures of their loved ones on the walls blurred out to keep them anonymous.

[scott vroom]

Looks like this thread is DOA.

[Keith Outten]

Scott,

I am still thinking about how breaking up this forum could be accomplished. The big problem is how it would affect people searching for information when we can't possibly move ten years of threads manually to a new forum.

[scott vroom]

Keith, could you go into a bit more detail on how/why search would be a problem if you split a forum? When I do a search I rarely target a single forum; I typically do my searches across all forums to ensure the broadest possible set of hits. How would that approach be affected by splitting forums and NOT moving legacy posts?





Scott,

I am still thinking about how breaking up this forum could be accomplished. The big problem is how it would affect people searching for information when we can't possibly move ten years of threads manually to a new forum.

[Keith Outten]

The largest percentage of people here only visit one forum. Many have never even seen our main page.
When they use the search feature they only search the forum they frequent.
.

[Mark Wooden]

.I'm with Peter in that, like him, I produce and install one of a kind millwork, casework and architectural finish work that is the intellectual property of others and as such should not be published by anyone but them without permission. I too rarely get involved in tool discussions.
That said, I feel there is a great difference between kitchen and bath cabinets and architectural finish/millwork and casework. As someone pointed out, kitchens and baths don't go much beyond the face and doors.
I'd like to see discussions on producing paneling, bolection molding, balustrades, frieze and cornice work, methods to make pilasters , layout and construction of coffered ceilings, barrel vaults, paneled jambs, stair paneling, interior doors, best way to build and install a Harmon hinged opening, methods of splitting large casework to move it from shop to site, methods to extend the tongue on raised panels to accommodate the previously mentioned bolection molding, curved and elliptical work, large area veneering, best feed rate to run a 5" QSWO crown on a shaper.....
This is all specialized work of an industrial manner, won't matter what router or chop saw you have and there's no off the shelf cutter or bit for it, most don't do this kind of work for that reason.(I said don't, not can't) But that doesn't mean they wouldn't want to read about it, ask questions about it or look in on discussions about it.
I vote for a casework/millwork/architectural finish forum, leave the kitchen and bath and the furniture making where they are