Putting a shop vac on a 3-way (or 4-way) switch

[Dave Zellers]

I'm thinking of running some simple 2 1/2" piping between 2 rooms in my shop (and possibly 2 corners in one room also) to extend the reach of my shop vac and was wondering about wiring for the ability to turn on and off the vac in 2 and possibly 3 locations. I've wired 3 and 4 way lighting before but this involves a motor of course.

I actually have 2 vacs, my first ever shop vac, a 35 year old Sears Craftsman still going strong and a Fein Turbo II. The Craftsman I abuse, The Fein I am very protective of.

Is this doable? Will it damage the motor? The piping would be open ended so I would have the ability to connect whichever vac I wanted and I really don't want to do anything to harm my precious Fein.

[Mike Henderson]

You should be able to use the standard 3 way or 4 way circuit design to run an outlet - just like you can use them for a light. It's just an electrical load.

Mike

[Dave Zellers]

But I read something here about motors being different.

Maybe that was higher end motors.

[Greg R Bradley]

If the vacuum has a simple on/off switch like the old Craftsman or like my 20 year-old Fein, it will be fine to wire it with an x-way switch. It would be easier to use a remote control switch.

I would not suggest using that with a modern sophisticated electronic soft start or speed control unit like a current Fein.

[Dave Zellers]

It's just a guess but I imagine my Fein is maybe 15 years old. (MAN, time flies!) It could be more.

What is an X-way switch? Is that where the switch cuts off both the hot and neutral wires at the same time? That's what I read recently is best for motors.

[Dave Zellers]

It would be easier to use a remote control switch.
I have a plug box that activates the vac when a sander is turned on. You're saying I can buy a RC device for the vac like I use for my DC?

Certainly makes sense but I don't think I've ever come across one. That would definitely be the way to go. Any pointers appreciated.

[Greg R Bradley]

Dave,

A 15 year old Fein probably matches my older one. If so, it does not have variable speed and doesn't have the ability to plug a tool into the vac and have the vac start with the tool, right? If that is correct, it is just a shop vac even if it is a NICE shop vac. I would be comfortable plugging that in to a switched outlet and my girlfriend the electrical engineer agrees.

X-way is just one word to include 2-way, 3-way, 4-way switches.

Rockler and Woodcraft, along with many others sell remote control boxes with transmitters. Here is one:
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=31252&rrt=1

Hope that helps.

[Alan Schaffter]

Just look at the current rating of the VAC and the wireless remote- any one of the small Lone Rangers or similar remotes (even some of the XMAS tree remotes) should work if properly rated. The universal motor in a Shopvac does not require as heavy duty of switch as a typical induction motor. The only problem with a 3-way or 4-way 120V switch circuit, is you must run the 120V wiring to every location. A 24V low voltage 3 wire control circuit wired with inexpensive bell wire and a small contactor will work too. It will allow you to easily put control buttons anywhere.

Oh, I use a low voltage circuit to control my fixed shopvac setup:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/1404/medium/PB050004.JPG

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/1404/medium/PB050006.JPG

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/1404/medium/PB050005.JPG

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/1404/medium/PB0500161.JPG

[Mike Henderson]

But I read something here about motors being different.

Maybe that was higher end motors.
I can't think of any reason a motor would be any different, including whether the motor was controlled by an electronic variable control system. Turning it off and on would be the same as if you lost power to your house for a while and the power came back on. So if you had a magnetic starter on the unit, it would not work - but that's not what you'd have on a shop vac type unit.

Mike

[Dave Zellers]

Dave,

A 15 year old Fein probably matches my older one. If so, it does not have variable speed and doesn't have the ability to plug a tool into the vac and have the vac start with the tool.
No VS but yes to plugging in a tool and have the vac start with the tool.

I think I get it. Thanks all.

[Keith Hankins]

I have a 2hp dc and a chop station that is a long way away so I knew that distance would not work. I dedicated an old crapsman wet/dry vac with an isocket so that when I cut on the chopsaw it comes on automatically. For the big DC I have a remote from woodcraft that has a rf transmitter with a small keyfob sice on off that I clip to my belt that way no matter what station i am at, a tap on the remote and dc is on. I would caution about expecting much from a small DC that you put a very long run on especially 2.5" hose. Good luck and let us know how it works out.

[Alan Schaffter]

To expand on what Keith said, a long 2"-2.5" DC duct run will be severely limited in what it can do since a DC has very poor static pressure (<12" water) so won't move much air and can't overcome the static pressure resistance in a small pipe. The high static pressure generated by a shopvac (80"+) will do a better job carrying the collected dust to the vac, but like a DC whose CFM is limited by a 2-2.5" duct, a shopvac won't "collect" dust at the source very well either. In effect what you will have is a shop version of a whole-house vac. Like those and even portable vacs, they are designed to pick up stationary dust which is within an inch or so of the nozzle. They will pick up almost no airborne dust once it gets farther away. In my earlier pictures, my longest vac duct runs to my mitersaw- but it just draws from the blade shroud port. Not visible, behind/below the saw, is my main DC 6" pickup which collects the airborne dust.

[Dave Zellers]

Yes, I'm talking about a shop vac not a DC.

I have a new question about a vac auto switch that I have. I was testing it to see if a light when turned on would activate the vac. I found that a 100 watt bulb did not but a 150 watt bulb did. Is there any problem to activating the vac this way instead of a tool motor? IOW run an extension cord into the other room and when I want to run the vac, turn on the light.

I do have a Long Ranger for my DC and that works for the vac but I'd have to unplug the DC and plug in the vac and then reverse it to use the DC.