Getting a used table saw dialed in

[Jerry Cummins]

I recently purchased a Craftsman 22114 table saw and trying to get it dialed in. Need some help as to what is going on with it. When I bought, I cut a couple of boards and it wasn’t great but felt it could be dialed in. Now I’m not so sure what the issue is.

The arbor feels tight. I’ve checked the blade for square against the miter slots and fence. I'm using a fixed and adjustable miter gauges with feeler gauges. I've check the heel and adjusted it very slightly…it was off just a bit. That adjustment actually seems to have made the cut worse. I’ve used two different blades. One a brand new cross cut blade, and the other a 20 tooth carbide blade that was recently sharpened. I’ve put both blades on a 40 year old Craftsman radial arm saw I have, and the cuts are good using those blades with the radial arm saw. I rip a board and had the same issues, so it’s not the miter gauge or fence since it happens with both.

Here’s the cut with a new cross cut blade on the table saw.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g27/jcummins42/Mobile%20Uploads/downsized_0721121823.jpg

Here’s the cut with the same blade on the radial arm saw.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g27/jcummins42/Mobile%20Uploads/downsized_0721121822.jpg

Here’s a cut with the 20 tooth blade after I adjusted the heel.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g27/jcummins42/Mobile%20Uploads/downsized_0722120934.jpg

[Bill White]

What's the tooth count on the CC blade, and is the cut a true 90 degree?
Bill

[Jerry Cummins]

The CC is a 60 tooth. It was a new blade the former owner had installed on this saw. Neither blades are anything special….but both cut decent on the radial arm saw. As mentioned to the 20 tooth one was recently sharpen. Once I figure this out, I’ll be buying a much better blade for the table saw. I used the same type of squares etc to align the radial arm saw as I have on the table saw, and it cuts good, but do I need to get a dial gauge of some kind to put more precision on the saw alignment?

Picture of the blades I’m using.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g27/jcummins42/Mobile%20Uploads/downsized_0722121233.jpg

Picture of another cut I made with the 20 tooth on the table saw, with the blade raised so it was cutting halfway through the piece of wood. It tears out where the saw exits the wood.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g27/jcummins42/Mobile%20Uploads/0722121227.jpg

[Jerry Thompson]

Put a backer board behind it and see what happens.

[phil harold]

As with all table saw problems is first make sure to align it completely !


here is a good guide for you:
http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/Main/Articles/Table_Saw_Maintenance_Skill_Builder_Power_Tool_Tun _8197.aspx

Make sure you are holding the wood tight to the miter gauge , it helps to screw another board to the miter gauge
237393
make a sled for your table saw
237394

make sure you have a good blade
ebay # 320943845481
decent blade for 20 bucks delivered

I do most my cross cutting off the table saw, It just is harder to mitre a 4' piece of wood on the table saw...
good luck

[Cary Falk]

Ia there excessive runout in the arbor?

[Jerry Cummins]

The arbor seems tight. By runout...what are you referring to?

This is not just crosscutting but ripping as well, so it's not a miter gauge or fence or how tight I hold the wood to the miter gauge.

I've gone through the adjustments best I can. I've successfully aligned the radial arm saw a few times over the years, and done everything I know of as to adjustments on the table saw. Obviously I'm missing something. I even read on another thread about the tightness of the nut holding the blade. I've tried it TIGHT..and also hand tight. No change.

[Cary Falk]

Think of runout as the blade not sitting perpendicular to the shaft. As the blade spins it will wobble making the kerf wider than the blade itself. Like those old wobble dado blades you used to be able to buy. A quick way to test would check if your kerf is much wider than your blade. The very acurate way to check it is to put a dial guage on the arbor flange and rotate the arbor and see if the needle moves in and out. Movement of around .001" is good. The runout is magnified as you move out to the tip of the blade.

[Sean Walker]

Perfect timing. I JUST finished tuning my 22124 saw today using the A-Line-It dial indicator. The biggest issue with mine was the blade not being parallel to the miter slot and neither was the fence. Once I got those issues fixed, I used a triangle to check that the miter gauge was lined up perfectly to the blade. My tolerance on the blade to miter slot was less than 2 thousandths. Same with the fence, but went counter clockwise on the dial (per the instructions).

[phil harold]

The arbor seems tight. By runout...what are you referring to?

This is not just crosscutting but ripping as well, so it's not a miter gauge or fence or how tight I hold the wood to the miter gauge.

I've gone through the adjustments best I can. I've successfully aligned the radial arm saw a few times over the years, and done everything I know of as to adjustments on the table saw. Obviously I'm missing something. I even read on another thread about the tightness of the nut holding the blade. I've tried it TIGHT..and also hand tight. No change.

you said it got worse when you adjusted it,
Go back and start over with the alignment follow the guide do each step
Some saws the washers cup and and take the saw out of adjustment when tightened
Your first and third picture also look like your feed rate was a little fast
how many amps is the saw?
could be under powered to cut 2x material

[Jerry Cummins]

It's set to 110 volt. My feed rate was quite slow. I feel it's way underpowered and intend to go to 220v. I did that with my radial arm saw, and it was a huge difference. I'm hoping that will be the case with the table saw. But having said that, I was trying to get it dialed in before doing that.

It's the heat of the day, this evening I'll recheck everything. It's obvious something in the alignment OR...the ardbor/blade is doing something when the cutting starts that I can't see.

Cary, I visually watched the blade and arbor from start up to end, and I don't detect anything but what visually appears perfect.

Guys, should I get a run out dial of some sort? Any suggestions?

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Is your arbor flange washers clean and free from rust/debris on it? That could cause your blade to wobble, and get that much tear out. Assuming that your blade is parallel to your miter slot.
Does your wood burn on a rip? That would also indicate your blade is not parallel to the miter slot and/or fence. Looking at your pics, I would think that your slot is not parallel to your blade.

[scott spencer]

Take a good look at the belt, pulleys, pulley alignment, etc....something's not right, and it goes beyond the blades. Does the arbor nut snug firmly against the washer so that the blade doesn't wobble?

[Jerry Cummins]

[QUOTE=Kyle Iwamoto Looking at your pics, I would think that your slot is not parallel to your blade.[/QUOTE]

I agree. It certainly looks that way to me too. I'm going back over and recheck all the alignments. I think my tools lack precision and perhaps I do to. This time I will clamp my square in some manner to the slot, then use the feeler gauges I have. I'll report back tomorrow or the next day.

[Lee Schierer]

The scorch marks on your 2 x 4 indicate that your saw is not aligned. Also don't use a 20 tooth blade and expect to get smooth crosscuts. You need 40 or more teeth to get a smooth cross cut. I'm an advocate of Freud Blades as they give superior cuts with a minimal price.

Do yourself a favor and go to your local Harbor Freight store and pick up a dial indicator for $20. Mount it to a block of wood with a wood screw. Clamp that block to your miter gauge so the dial indicator touches your blade. Mark a point on the blade near where the gullets become solid blade. Check the blade to insure it is perpendicular to your table top. Set the blade as high as you can go then back off about 1/2 turn. Set the dial indicator to zero on your mark on the blade. Rotate the blade so the marked area is at the rear of the opening while sliding the miter gauge to the rear and see what the indicator reads. Adjust the saw until the indicator reads zero. Once the blade is parallel to the miter slot use that same miter slot to adjust the fence. I can tell you from personal experience that setting a stock Craftsman fence to be parallel is a challenge and you have no assurance that it will stay that way the next time you move it.

[Jacob Reverb]

You should probably start with putting a good sharp blade on the saw. Otherwise, you'll be chasing your tail and will only confuse, confound and frustrate yourself.

I've seen wood cut by sledge hammers that was less ragged than that mess.

You said you adjusted the "heel." What is that? I have never heard that term.

[Jerry Cummins]

Problem found.

Everyone looking at the pictures I posted and I as well, assumed the blade wasn’t parallel to the slot. That’s what the cut was showing. It’s not…but that was not the real issue. The serpentine belt had pulled off the motor pulley and was running on the shaft of the motor. With saw on, and no cutting, you could not detect that. Make a cut and everything was going wrong.

On this saw, a terrible design for access, the belt and pulleys are out of view. In my younger years I could tip this saw over…but at my age now, righting it is near impossible….so by feel then using a mirror, the problem is obvious. I put back on track and the cut was much improved. I also found the adjustment to make the slot parallel to the blade was hindered with the belt that way. Once I put the belt right, the ability to adjust that was completely different in a better way. It is still off, and I will get a dial gauge and get it right. I ALSO found the reason this happened, the pulley on the motor is not aligned properly. The pulley is tight on the shaft, but too far out, and belt is angled. I’ll have to mess with that too.

If they had only put an access door on the left side of this saw, none of this would have occurred. The problem would have been easily seen. Now…get a gauge get it ‘fine’ adjusted, and a new decent blade, and I think this saw is going to be pretty decent.

[scott spencer]

Gotta love a happy ending....

[phil harold]

good to hear ya found the problem!

[Ryan Brucks]

very cool.... so i wonder was the belt not riding on the pulley actually brining down the RPMs way too low??? then maybe actually slipping, which caused it to feel underpowered, and also explains the splintering?