Which Lenox Trimaster Blade to buy

[Ellery Coffman]

I have a used 18" Bridgewood PBS 440 bandsaw I just bought (made by ACM in Italy).

I'd like to do resawing, ripping, and even cut metal so I was looking at getting a trimaster blade. I only have this one bandsaw, so I'm looking for a great all purpose blade that will last. Great finish quality would be awesome too. I'll probably be doing resawing the most.

It seems there are several widths to choose from: 1/2", 3/4" and 1"

With several teeth options: 3/4 variable tpi, 2/3 variable tpi, 3 skip, etc...

I was thinking about getting a 3/4" blade, but then found that only the skip tooth option is available in that size. The 1" size has a variety of teeth options.

Any ideas? It would also be helpful to hear advice on the various teeth options with respect to resharpening costs too. Can a 3/4 variable tooth blade be resharpened as easy as a normal 3 TPI blade?

[David Kumm]

I had a Laguna LT 18 that is similar to your saw although the Bridgewood had a little different frame build- better actually. If you feel comfortable with a resaw king the 3/4" would be the size to go with. In the Trimaster I had best luck with the 1/2" 2/3 or 3/4 depending on how wide the boards you resaw most will be. Others have disagreed with me but I did not feel the LT 18 tensioned a 3/4 Lenox well enough to get the best finish. You might be fine but assuming you can get a good RK and a 1/4 bimetal for scrolling type cuts, that would be my first choice. Second would be a 1/2" trimaster and see how it works. Will serve many purposes until you are sure what the saw will handle. With proper tension the smaller blade will resaw just as well until 10" or so. Dave

[Ellery Coffman]

Thanks David.

Is there a way to determine the correct tension? The saw came with a tension gauge built in that is based on the width of the blade in mm. Using the scale 3/4" ~ 19 mm, so I would set the gauge window to 19. Obviously, the saw's scale is assuming a certain thickness of blade, type of steel etc, so this may not be the most accurate tension. I'm an engineer so if there's some neat mod I can do to better measure tension, I may be interested! I've read about a 1/4" test using a square, is that the preferred method?

PS: I'm really liking this site better over some other lumberj&*$ site... I just posted my question and already have a useful response and not an advertisement. I now see why this site has a moderator verify each member account after reading on that "other" site :)

[Mike Heidrick]

Also maybe think about a Laguna resaw king or Lenox Woodmaster CT as potential other blades. 3/4 or 1" will be fine for sure. You have a meaty saw!

Those blades are great resaw blades. Laguna has a host of other general purpose blades too that work well.

What size blades do you use?

As too tensioning, on the small blades do a search on flutter test (I think that is what it is called). I have neevr used a gauge on mine.

I called Sam Blasco at minimax (ow was) and he told me on my trimaster on my mm20 to go way past what the gauge on the saw said. I did and it works great. I have no science to back it up though.

[Jay Rasmussen]

Ellery,
I have a Laguna LT18 3000, not as good as the LT18 but still a very nice saw. I also wanted to do some metal cutting. I cut some 1 inch thick aluminum , several 4 inch wide pieces, worked great but I spent over an hour cleaning the aluminum out of the rubber on the wheels. No more metal cutting on that saw. I wish I had looked after the first cut.

[Ellery Coffman]

@Jay Thanks for the heads up! I may not cut steel on it then. I can see how a bunch of metal on the tires could potentially cause blade tracking issues.

@Mike, I haven't looks at the Woodmaster CT yet. How does it compare to the Trimaster CT in terms of life? I don't use any blade size yet as this is my first band saw and I just purchased it from craigslist. So far, I tested it with what I think is a 3/4" Lenox flex back blade as a few of these flex back blades came with the craigslist deal. The saw did a nice job, but the resaw wasn't as pretty as what's talked about online with the resaw king and the trimaster. The issue could be the blade is dull. It feels kind of sharp with my hand, but I'm not sure if it's sharp enough.

[David Kumm]

Ellery, I use a tension gauge. Absent that, turn the wheel until it takes two hands and turn it another 1/2 turn of so. Try to resaw a 6-8" board and if the blade pushes back against the bearing, take another 1/2 turn. Always check that the spring isn't bottomed out. The gauge on the saw will probably read off the charts but if you can get a reading it will give you a reference for the future. I like high tension and have saws that tolerate it. You should not be able to overtension with the stock spring so just don't bottom it out. The CT is a good lower cost resaw blade but not as all purpose as the RK or Trimaster. Dave

[Mike Heidrick]

Laguna will sharpen them too if you send them in.

Sam recommended the woodmaster ct to me. I bought it from him but after putting on a resaw king I have not taken that off. It really is amazing.

[David Hawxhurst]

the math behind it is fairly easy:

if the blade was observed to stretch by .002" over a 4" span, that makes for a relative stretch of:


0.002"/4.000"
= 0.0005








Now multiplying that by Young's modulus:
0.0005 * 29,000,000 PSI = 14500 PSI

more can be found here http://woodgears.ca/bandsaw/tension.html

my m.k. morse blades say to tension the carbon steel one to 29,000 and the carbide to 30,000. for each size blade i have i do the measuring once and mark on the scale where the indicator is pointing (i also put a note to which blade width it is). i cover the factory scale up with painters tape or a 3x5 card and mark on the blades i have.

[Ellery Coffman]

Thanks David. This is very useful as it led me to several great websites.

Here's a neat DIY tension guide I might build: http://woodgears.ca/bandsaw/tension.html

It's not possible to see inside my saw to know if the spring is completely compressed (e.g. bottoming out) or not due to sheet metal that is in the way. The ACM band saws seem to rely on the gauge as it has a cable that must connect near the end of the spring so as to correlate to the actual spring position, I think? It seems by using hooks law the saws scale is correlating the spring force to some unitless number which should be the mm width of the blade. I could be wrong on how this thing works as I haven't took it apart. I'm also not a mechanical engineer, but an electrical one!

This correlated scale goes all the way 75. If you remember my example earlier I was using 20, so yeah I think that might explain my good, but not great cutting attempt?!?

If another newbie like me is reading this the article here is great too: http://www.finewoodworking.com/pages/w00013.asp

[Van Huskey]

If you are looking at the Trimaster or Woodmaster CT then I would not go over 3/4" with that saw, which rules out the WM CT and leaves no variable pitch option with the Trimaster. You can measure the tension or strain with a purpose built gauge like Lenox and Starrett make or use a set of calipers to measure the stretch of the band as mentioned above.

The Laguna Resaw King has the benefit of being variable pitch in all sizes and having a thin gauge (.025" in all sizes vs .035" in the 1" TM for example) this means the RK will need a significant amount less pressure to get to the same tension.

I find all the carbide tipped blades I have used need 28,000 psi (+/- 1,000 psi) to cut at their best, they will cut with less tension BUT at a lower finish quality. The problem with built in tension gauges as they can not be right for all blades of a specific width, some blades will need significantly different tension since the gauge is thicker and some will need different tension because they are of a different blade composition.

I would NOT suggest cross contamination of metal on a woodcutting saw but some do it. You will be very limited as to the type and thickness of metal you can cut anyway due to the speed of your saw.

Some of my basic ideas about BS blades, which I think starts with the point there isn't a all purpose BS blade: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?149862-Lets-talk-bandsaw-blades!&highlight=lets+talk+bandsaw

BTW nice saw, you should post some pictures, we love pictures!

[David Hawxhurst]

my saw is labeled with blade widths. my questions is when the figured this out what blade thickness and tension were they using? i have two 1/2" blades of different thickness and are totally different marks on the scale for the same tension.

i just clamp a 6" caliper to the blade to measure my stretch. the measurements don't care about blade width or thickness, you just tension the blade to the number your looking mark it and done.

[Van Huskey]

my saw is labeled with blade widths. my questions is when the figured this out what blade thickness and tension were they using? i have two 1/2" blades of different thickness and are totally different marks on the scale for the same tension.



We posted at almost the same time but that is my exact point. It is like buying pants just by length, if you do they are only going to fit some people correctly.

[Van Huskey]

Thanks David. This is very useful as it led me to several great websites.

Here's a neat DIY tension guide I might build: http://woodgears.ca/bandsaw/tension.html

It's not possible to see inside my saw to know if the spring is completely compressed (e.g. bottoming out) or not due to sheet metal that is in the way. The ACM band saws seem to rely on the gauge as it has a cable that must connect near the end of the spring so as to correlate to the actual spring position, I think? It seems by using hooks law the saws scale is correlating the spring force to some unitless number which should be the mm width of the blade. I could be wrong on how this thing works as I haven't took it apart. I'm also not a mechanical engineer, but an electrical one!

This correlated scale goes all the way 75. If you remember my example earlier I was using 20, so yeah I think that might explain my good, but not great cutting attempt?!?

If another newbie like me is reading this the article here is great too: http://www.finewoodworking.com/pages/w00013.asp


If you can not see the spring use the top graduation on the gauge and do not go past it. Almost all bandsaw springs are designed for nominally linear progression rates and the gauges are direct readings of the compression in distance so you will normally see the scale associated with them (if graduated in band widths) to NOT be linear to take into account the fact that wider blades usually have thicker bands, but again this can only be used as a very rough indicator.

You linked to a Lonnie Bird article, be aware that there is a fairly heated debate about tension on our hobby saws. Bird, Fortune, Duginski and Iturra all have varying takes on how to measure and what tension should be used. Point being the more articles you read the more likely you are to get very different opinions about how to approach the subject!

[Ellery Coffman]

Thanks. It looks like a bunch of us were posting at the same time, huh? This does rule out variable teeth unless I go with the resaw king. Is variable teeth a must for the smoothest cut?

[Van Huskey]

Thanks. It looks like a bunch of us were posting at the same time, huh? This does rule out variable teeth unless I go with the resaw king. Is variable teeth a must for the smoothest cut?

The smoothest cut is going to come from a VP (variable pitch) blade when all other things are equal since it reduces harmonic vibrations. The difference between a CP (constant pitch) and a VP blade of the exact same design is visible but not a deal killer by any means, just a little more clean up. The Resaw King gives the best finish but even a CP Trimaster is very very good.

[David Kumm]

Thanks. It looks like a bunch of us were posting at the same time, huh? This does rule out variable teeth unless I go with the resaw king. Is variable teeth a must for the smoothest cut?

Variable teeth will give a better cut but a good saw with correct tension means more. I got a deal on a bunch of 3T trimasters and while I would prefer 2/3 my cut is equivalent to a planed board with the knives a little out of whack. I'm surprised you can't see the spring. I could always see mine. Might be more difference in design than I thought. I would not buy the 3/4 Trimaster as the first blade for that saw. Start with something you are sure you can tension enough to experiment with. The 3/4 Trimaster will at best put the saw on the edge of it's capability. The RK and the 1/2 Trimaster will fully tension so you can get a better feel and ultimately at least as good if not better cut with less risk. Knowledge is power and experience with the .025 thick blades will help you with the next blade decision, and there will be more decisions. Dave

[Ellery Coffman]

Thanks again David.

Any suggestions on where to buy an affordable blade tension gauge? The Starrett gauge is $395?!?

Since I have a bunch of steel blades that came with my craigslist band saw (1", 3/4", 1/4"), it sounds like it would be very beneficial to establish my saws capability by making a tension chart for each blade width versus what the saw's on-board gauge reads.

Kind of like what they are doing in these two youtube videos:
Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-hr75tmeow&feature=plcp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-hr75tmeow&feature=plcp)

Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HN8xrkPR9Us&feature=plcp

PS: The saw in the video looks identical to what the 18" Bridgewood PBS440 looks like.

[Van Huskey]

I think Dave picked his Starretts up on eBay.

If you have a set of calipers and a couple of C-clamps you have everything you need to measure the strain, it just want read direct like a strain gauge will.

[Mike OMelia]

I think at this point it is worth pointing out that Laguna offers excellent deals to creekers for their RK blades. Contact Tim Lory at Laguna. Go to Deals forum to find his posts.

Mike

[Ellery Coffman]

I haven't ruled out Laguna. Any idea of what typical "deals" they offer to sawmillcreek members? I'd be interested in a resaw king along with the ceramic guides, but only if the price was right. Feel free to PM.

I'm sure Laguna's stuff is top notch, but the prices on their website are a little high. Even with 10% off and free shipping, the price on the guides and resaw king seem like a deal killer.


I think at this point it is worth pointing out that Laguna offers excellent deals to creekers for their RK blades. Contact Tim Lory at Laguna. Go to Deals forum to find his posts.

Mike

[Van Huskey]

I haven't ruled out Laguna. Any idea of what typical "deals" they offer to sawmillcreek members? I'd be interested in a resaw king along with the ceramic guides, but only if the price was right. Feel free to PM.

I'm sure Laguna's stuff is top notch, but the prices on their website are a little high. Even with 10% off and free shipping, the price on the guides and resaw king seem like a deal killer.

Although I love the guides if the saw is primarily used as a resaw then guides become somewhat of a non-issue. A wide blade with lots of tension won't spnd much if any time touching the guides, the air between even the worst guides and the blade is just as high quality as the air between the blade and the best guides... :D


The RK does offer the best finish of any blade in the class, but is priced a little more than the Trimaster. I "think" the current deal is 50% off the second blade.

[Mike OMelia]

Really? I recall getting 137" Resaw Kings for like $100 or so. Perhaps those deals are gone. Is Tim still working there? Normally, these deals happen when some big order falls apart and they have extra spools (or returned spools), or orphaned spools...

Mike

[Van Huskey]

Really? I recall getting 137" Resaw Kings for like $100 or so. Perhaps those deals are gone. Is Tim still working there? Normally, these deals happen when some big order falls apart and they have extra spools (or returned spools), or orphaned spools...

Mike

The best deals were when they were selling off the old version of the RK. Very good blade but the new version is incrementally better.

[Ellery Coffman]

Van, that is a good and cheap way to measure tension. I ran across this page that details the calculation a while back:
http://woodgears.ca/bandsaw/tension.html

I just need to find some cheap calipers to clamp up. iGaging looks like they import a lot of measurement devices that are plenty accurate for woodworking: http://www.igaging.com/ (http://www.igaging.com/page19.html) I ordered one of their 12" digital scales for my planer; it was $32 with shipping through an amazon store. I tested it against my nice calipers (the ones I don't want to clamp on ;) ) and it was within .000" - .002". Plenty accurate for a planer, now I just need to make installation brackets.

[Van Huskey]

Van, that is a good and cheap way to measure tension. I ran across this page that details the calculation a while back:
http://woodgears.ca/bandsaw/tension.html

I just need to find some cheap calipers to clamp up. iGaging looks like they import a lot of measurement devices that are plenty accurate for woodworking: http://www.igaging.com/ (http://www.igaging.com/page19.html) I ordered one of their 12" digital scales for my planer; it was $32 with shipping through an amazon store. I tested it against my nice calipers (the ones I don't want to clamp on ;) ) and it was within .000" - .002". Plenty accurate for a planer, now I just need to make installation brackets.

I actually use my best calipers (Starrett analog) since even a .001 error can mean a 10-25% error depending on how much distance your use. I suggest doing the math and using the longest distance you can to measure the strain since it reduces the amount of error you get. You should only have to measure the exact same blade type once, record the measurement on the BS scale and you can repeat it without measuering again. I keep a tag wire tied (bread bag/trash bag type tie) to my blades when not in use with the Brand, type, width TPI and tension reading from the BS on it so all the info is handy.