What's the infatuation with polyurethane?

[Bill White]

I'm sure that this will start an explosion of responses, but I fail to see the need for poly on every darned thing built. Sure, table tops and high use areas, but everything?
I use a lot of wiping varnish and shellac trying to replicate the classic finishes.
Am I missing something?
Bill (who is now assuming the fetal position)

[John Coloccia]

It's quick and easy to apply. Not everyone cares about replicating classic finishes. I think most people tend to use what they have laying around as long as there's no reason not to use it.

[Jim Rimmer]

As an experienced woodworker who was finish-ignorant for a long time, let me put in my 2 cents. I have been doing woodwork for 40+ years but until a few years ago had only scratched the surface of what could be done and what was available. The internet has made a huge difference in my ww'ing knowledge. I made some lovely pieces and refinished a lot of nice pieces and finished them with poly. Until I stumbled on to SMC (and got my kids out of the house so I had more time) I didn't really get "into" fine woodworking. So, the large number of folks who dabble in ww'ing as i did and are only exposed to what is available at the BORG and do not access the wonderful help, suggestions and possibilities here at SMC, it appears that poly is the only finish available.

I'm not as negative about poly as some; I think it can be used to make some great finishes. However, now that I have a great circle of friends with knowledge and experience, I am trying different finishes and finding out how well they work. If your only advice comes from the TV make-over gurus and the "experts" at the BORG, poly is the way to go.

[Prashun Patel]

Polyurethane might be cheaper to make than other varnishes. We can debate its aesthetic shortcomings, but most people don't notice it, and it doesn't scratch quite as easily as 'harder' varnishes, which means it resists abrasion better too.

Even the finishing gurus here think poly has a place - on floors - because of its abrasion resistance.

A lot of professional woodworkers give short shrift to finishing. I'm surprised how many I've met that have a couple go-to finishes and have a misconception about its properties.

[glenn bradley]

I fail to see the need for poly on every darned thing built.

I was unaware of this requirement. I have been doing it wrong all this time :D:D:D. I do use a little rattle can poly for surfaces that will get abuse. Beyond that I pretty much avoid the stuff. You can't rub it out, it looks like a plastic candy shell but, it does survive spilled martinis. I say use it where appropriate; I just have a specific opinion about what appropriate is ;). As to the cost, once I have a few hundred dollars of materials into a piece, I am really not effected by the delta between $12 or $36 for a quart of finish.

[Jefferey Scott]

It's Norm Abram's fault...

[Dale Cruea]

I am not a finishing expert by anyone's opinion. Poly works where poly is needed. I personally don't like poly for most things. If I put many hours in a project then cover it with poly just does not seem right to me.
I like oil a lot. I dislike the rubbing but I like the look.
I will use wipe om poly for some things. It does not look so plastic.
For most projects I think if you are going to put poly on a nice project you might as well paint it. Just my opinion.

[Prashun Patel]

I'd rather apply poly well than a better finish poorly. A better product does not always a better finish make.

Ive seen poly finishes that look as nice as any other varnish. I also know that nakashima and Sam mall of both used polyurethane to good effect.

[sheldon pettit]

I use very little of what is mentioned here as "poly" most of what is meant as "oil modified" polymerized urethane, such as at the BB stores. such as mudwax or others. On the other-hand, 2K [two component] Urethane's, are a completely different story, though none are of a wipe on type of finish, spray only mainly. those can be manipulated to look like a varnish or lacquer or even other coatings, including a simulated oil affect, when severely thinned. I don't bring them up here though because of cost and many not having spray equipment of a professional type. There is a whole gamut of urethane coatings that will out perform virtually any other coating out there, but if and when mistakes are made there costly to repair or refinish as compared to lacquers or varnishes or natural resins like shellac.

[John TenEyck]

If you are able to apply it with the equipment you have, or none at all, it meets your performance and durability requirements, and it looks good to you, does it really matter what's in it?

John

[sheldon pettit]

If you are able to apply it with the equipment you have, or none at all, it meets your performance and durability requirements, and it looks good to you, does it really matter what's in it?

John

Well, if that is your decision and all you require, then "no" it doesn't matter. If on the other hand things such as longevity and ease of repair and non darking of the resin coating come into play, then "yes" it does :)

[Rich Engelhardt]

What's the infatuation with polyurethane?
Marketing - pure and simple marketing.

The word "polyurethane" became synonymous with tough, hard, nearly indestructible & easily applied to give excellent results.
It actually was (and in some cases still is) able to deliver on that promise for a good three decades - 1950's, 1960's, 1970's.
Widespread reformulations of coatings in the mid 1980's changed things somewhat & the polyurethanes of today are a much different product.
Some better, some worse, some different but still the same performance.

Products such as DuPont Imron, S&W Polane and the whole slew of aliphatic and aromatic moisture cured urethanes are legendary for their performance.
Imron and Polane used to be single component products. I believe both are two part products today.

Next time you visit a borg, try to scratch the floor. That shiny hard tough finish is a moisture cured urethane. It's harder than the concrete underneath. You can literally bust the concrete with a hammer through the finish and not damage the finish - I've seen it done in a demonstration.

Bottom line though is that through marketing, the paint and coatings industry has steered customers into asking for a can of poly instead of a can of varnish.
It really is that simple..

[David Hawxhurst]

i have spray equipment. can you recommend a 2k system that looks like varnish or lacquer?

[sheldon pettit]

i have spray equipment. can you recommend a 2k system that looks like varnish or lacquer?

No 2K system out of the can will look like lacquer, but will look like varnish if you have the supplier tint it for you to an varnish ambertone look. same if copying a lacquer look ok? My all time favorite is Delta Labs 2k, which is designed for wood both interior or exterior above the waterline. It has UVA's and Hals added to keep it from degredation from the sun. 2nd choice would be Duponts 2K's but i dont have a specific name or product number for the one i used.

[David Hawxhurst]

do you have product name for the delta lab 2k stuff?

[robert raess]

I started using oil poly in the 80's on wood floors.80-90% of my fellow floor finishers were doing the same thing.A very small % were using acid cure products,wax or lacquer.Now today,we have a choice of either H2O or oil based Ply's..and I have to say that more of us are using water-borne.Why? Smell,dry time,durablity, low VOC, water clean-up.The really good stuff, few people outside of the trade have ever handled.It's pricey $110 gal!It flows like oil poly. I have rubbed out Water-borne poly within 4 hrs. of dry.On my cabinets i use lacquer.On my turned pc's i use shellac or lacquer.When i don't want the appearance of a film build, i will use a wipe on poly from minwax with great results.Go with what you are comfortable with, and slowly expose yourself to new products and skills and you will be ready to try a new finish. Rob

[sheldon pettit]

do you have product name for the delta lab 2k stuff?

clear acrylic urethane - # 's 53Co32423, 95C000307, keep in mind you need to use their urethane reducer with it ok? Also ask for the TDS [tech data sheets] for mixing and all else. They also have a sanding sealer but i don't have the number, as others said it is expensive but depending on how you cut it [reduce it] it will give a look of varnish or lacquer as to build, used out of the can it will be way to thick, for a simulated oil look i used a reduced coating of 9 parts U reducer to 1 part mixed urethane. Urethane is toxic so use all safety when handling and spraying!!! any other questions contact me direct on pm.

[Jim Becker]

I believe the single major contributing factor to how many folks use polyurethane finishes is...availability...particularly when their source needs to be the local home centers. Some popular manufacturer names don't make anything any more that isn't based on polyurethane resin. There is nothing "wrong" about using it for woodworking projects, but it certainly isn't the most optimum choice if one is willing and able to broaden their horizons...and supply chain.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I believe the single major contributing factor to how many folks use polyurethane finishes is...availability...particularly when their source needs to be the local home centers. Some popular manufacturer names don't make anything any more that isn't based on polyurethane resin. There is nothing "wrong" about using it for woodworking projects, but it certainly isn't the most optimum choice if one is willing and able to broaden their horizons...and supply chain.

Give the man a cigar!

[sheldon pettit]

Actually there is a whole world of products out there if you take the time to research them. for instance SW carries a large range of pro finishes that are all available to you if you ask your local SW store to order them in for you. This includes acrylics, nitro's, urethanes and alkyd finishes, vinyls, and many more. go online and search SW industrial finishes and go to the sight and see what you may order in at your local store ok? Mowhawk is another good source for finishes.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Sheldon......while there may be a lot products on the market....they are not available locally for me. Thus like a lot of woodworkers, I use what is readily available locally.

[David Hawxhurst]

Sheldon......while there may be a lot products on the market....they are not available locally for me. Thus like a lot of woodworkers, I use what is readily available locally.


personally i order most of my finishing supplies.

[John TenEyck]

Actually there is a whole world of products out there if you take the time to research them. for instance SW carries a large range of pro finishes that are all available to you if you ask your local SW store to order them in for you. This includes acrylics, nitro's, urethanes and alkyd finishes, vinyls, and many more. go online and search SW industrial finishes and go to the sight and see what you may order in at your local store ok? Mowhawk is another good source for finishes.

I've really wanted to try a couple of SW's pro products, but they are available only in 5 gal or 55 gal drums. That's sort of a problem for many of us.

John

[David Hawxhurst]

I've really wanted to try a couple of SW's pro products, but they are available only in 5 gal or 55 gal drums. That's sort of a problem for many of us.

John

they have quite a few of there wood top coats in gallons. a lot of the catalyzed stuff is available in gallons.

[John TenEyck]

they have quite a few of there wood top coats in gallons. a lot of the catalyzed stuff is available in gallons.

This seems to be limited to their solvent based products, which I can't/won't use. The two Kem Aqua products I looked at are available only in 5 gal pails, or 55 gal drums. Clearly they arn't interested in selling to low volume users, even on an order only basis.


John

[sheldon pettit]

Well...... i agree, if you don't want to use solvent based finishes then you limit yourself to the many choices available. That said, i wish you best of luck with your waterbased local choices. as david states many of thier most popular clear and pigmented finishes from SW come in gallon cans, It's not that they don't want to sell gallons, it's just many owners don't want to hassle with it. look up SW industrial stores and email them tell them what you want and see if they will ship to your local store - betcha they will. Mohawk will also gladly ship you in gallons of all thier products. Glue products plus will laso ship delta products in small quantities.

[David Hawxhurst]

most sw stores will order the stuff. sometimes you have to do all the leg work because they have no idea what your getting, or how to use it. you may have to provide them with everything like part numbers. most the industrial type sw will be will to help you decide which products to order and provide all the info, they may even be will to ship to the local sw store. i'm lucky that i have a industrial sw in richmond, va that deals with the local sw store. the local store didn't even know about most the wood top coatings.

[John TenEyck]

Sheldon and Dave, I'm sure you both meant well, but the SW WB products are not made in anything less than 5 gal pails, and Mohawk only makes one WB product, a wiping poly varnish, as far as I can tell from the website. Target Coatings, on the other hand, does make a bunch of WB products in 1 gal cans, which aren't available to me locally, but at least I can order them.

John

[Scott Holmes]

I use their Kem Aqua Plus all the time I buy it by the 5 gallon pail. It is NOT sold through the Sherwin Williams retail paint stores. Don't ask me why; cause I don't know.

I was told with my commercial account, I could buy it through SW Chemical Coatings. They usually ship it, no charge, to my shop; 5 gallons at a time. FYI it retails for $105 gallon.