Bandsaw blade tracking on flat crowned tires/wheels

[Mike Cutler]

Jim and Mark. If memory serves me, you both posted that you ran the tracking of your 1" bandsaw blades at the front of the wheels, and or even had the teeth overhanging the wheels, Is this correct, or has the winter addled my brain?
If so, what is the basis or thought process behind this setup? We've been covering a lot of bandsaw related posts this past winter, but this question just kinda stuck with me and I've been thinkin' on it, which is a bad thing in itself because most of my woodworking has been done with a splitting maul, and a Quadrafire 5700 for the last few months. :eek:.

[Jim Becker]

For the band saws that run flat tires (no crown) like the Mini Max and Agannzi it's appropriate to track the blades with the teeth just off the wheels. These machines are different in that respect from the 14" machines with crowned wheels/tires where you track (preferably) in the middle of the wheel. And it's not just a 1" bands...it's everything down to whatever can still track that way. What's really good about this is that the set of the teeth is preserved far longer, especially under the higher tension that one can do with the Euro saws. Obviously, you probably can't get away with this with the very narrow blades, such as a 1/8" or 3/16" blade since there is not enough left to support on the edge of the time. Those have to track inboard...which is the reason I wish I would have had the room to keep my 14" Jet like Mark did for use with very narrow blades. Fortunately, I don't use them very often, so I'm not going to worry about it!

[Mark Singer]

Jim pretty much said it...it is easier on the tires also. It really runs well that way and the Euro Guides are great for resawing. Mine tracks in perfect parallel to the fence...so I don't use a point fence. This is for the 20" Aggazani with a 1" Lenox Trimaster.

A lot of tracking problems can be solved by moving the blade forward or backward on tires until it tracks parallel. This is espessiallly true of crowned tires. My 14" Jet has a lenox 1/2" .025 kerf 10 TPi blade.This is a joint blade and a great compiment to the resaw in the Agg. I keep a few 1/4" blades for scrolling and thight radius work and architectural models.

[Nick Mitchell]

This is interesting. You two gentlemen are the only people I know that don't track their blades in the centre. I know people with MM's ,Agaz', Generals, Lagunas, ACM's and Centauros and they all centre track their blades.

Well, if it works, keep doing it I guess. :cool:

[Corvin Alstot]

This is interesting. You two gentlemen are the only people I know that don't track their blades in the centre. I know people with MM's ,Agaz', Generals, Lagunas, ACM's and Centauros and they all centre track their blades.
Nick/
Interesting. I was under the impression that the MM's ,Agaz', Generals, Lagunas, ACM's and Centauros all tracked with the teeth over the edge because of the flat (non-crowned) tires. At least I am doing it that way with my MM20.

[Tom Pritchard]

This is interesting. You two gentlemen are the only people I know that don't track their blades in the centre. I know people with MM's ,Agaz', Generals, Lagunas, ACM's and Centauros and they all centre track their blades.

Well, if it works, keep doing it I guess. :cool:

Nick, I have a Mini Max MM16, and I have always run the blades with the teeth just off the wheel too. The instructions that came with my saw are very clear about setting the blades up like this, and the MM rep. at the show that I bought it at showed me how to do it. It's much easier on the tires, and maintains the set of the teeth much longer.

[Nick Mitchell]

I wasn't saying it was wrong, just saying I don't know anyone who does it...until now. :) I know Laguna recommends running in the centre and so does the local ACM dealer and so does General.

[Richard Wolf]

This is interesting. You two gentlemen are the only people I know that don't track their blades in the centre. I know people with MM's ,Agaz', Generals, Lagunas, ACM's and Centauros and they all centre track their blades.

Well, if it works, keep doing it I guess. :cool:

Nick, I can't speak for everyone but most MM owners track their blades off the front of the wheel. Besides what Jim said about blade set, it also helps prolong tire life. Also it is almost impossible to set the lower blade guides porperly unless the blade is well forward of center.

Richard

[Mark Singer]

When I bought my Laguna years ago from Torben...Benjamin his brother brought it to my shop and showed me the same set-up teeth over...In Torbens' Laguna shop I ran several of the saws in the back room and he always set them that way...That was a few bandsaws ago
I wasn't saying it was wrong, just saying I don't know anyone who does it...until now. :) I know Laguna recommends running in the centre and so does the local ACM dealer and so does General.

[Bruce Branson]

I have a Laguna SEC16 and I was told to track the large blades,any thing over 1/2 inch, with the teeth off the front of the wheel.I bought it in 98.

[Norman Hitt]

I wasn't saying it was wrong, just saying I don't know anyone who does it...until now. :) I know Laguna recommends running in the centre and so does the local ACM dealer and so does General.

Nick, I can tell you for sure that if any MM owners are tracking blades wider than 1/4" in the center of the wheels, they ARE NOT following MiniMax's recommended procedure. Along with that, I attended a Seminar at MiniMax, about a year ago with Kelly Mehler and Mark Duginske doing the Seminar, and that was a point highly stressed by Mark in his part of the Program on Set Up, and in all his demonstrations there, he definitely Practiced what he Preached..

[Mike Cutler]

Jim and Mark. Thank you for the response. I kept wondering about it as I was fiddlin' with my Rikon 18". I was a little concerned that I wasn't setting the Rikon up properly and that centering the blade added to some of the tracking issues I had early on.
The relationship of the throat to the wheels on the Rikon may make running the full width of the teeth over the edge a little nervous. I'll give it a whirl and reset the tracking and see what the results are.
Thanks for the info, and I apologize if it caused a little stir.

[Jim Becker]

Mike, does your Rikon have flat tires or crowned tires?? That makes a difference....

[Mark Singer]

The typical tracking correction is if you move the blade back on the tire it will track to the left as you stand at the saw. If you move the blade forward it will track to the right. This is especially true if the tires are crowned and not flat. The blade may not be in exactly the same location on each tire...that is less important...If you try moving the blade it may change the lead or tracking. Wider blades usually track better as well.
Jim and Mark. Thank you for the response. I kept wondering about it as I was fiddlin' with my Rikon 18". I was a little concerned that I wasn't setting the Rikon up properly and that centering the blade added to some of the tracking issues I had early on.
The relationship of the throat to the wheels on the Rikon may make running the full width of the teeth over the edge a little nervous. I'll give it a whirl and reset the tracking and see what the results are.
Thanks for the info, and I apologize if it caused a little stir.

[Byron Trantham]

I don't won a saw with a flat fire ( :rolleyes: ). But it seems to me that running the teeth over the edge (having a flat tire) makes sense. About adjusting tracking with a crowned tire - I just learned aout this a few months ago and it sure works. It took me a few tries at first but now its pretty straight forward.

[Mike Cutler]

Jim, and Mark. The Rikon has flat tires. I'm going to experiment a bit, and also get ahold of Rikon. In all honesty I don't think I have an issue, or if I do it's a very minor one, it was just that tracking adjustments that you both mentioned previously piqued my curiosity. I did some internet searches and couldn't really find a lot on the tracking of "larger" bandsaws. Plenty of info on the 14" bandsaws though, so I had to ask.
Once again, thank you for the feedback.

[lou sansone]

this is an issue that seems to have different correct answers based upon the style of the tire. mm's manual states that they have flat tires and so all of you who keep your blades with the teeth over the edge are doing what should be done. the most recent manuals from laguna say that they run crowned tires and that for the most part keep the blade in the center. That is how I normally ran my laguna and I did not see any tire damage or blade kerf issues. Since all of these machines normally less than 1 1/2 " wide rims ( there are a few saws with wider rims ) , when you run wide resaw blades it is not to hard to have the teeth hang over and still have a good amount over the center of the wheel. Although I am not an expert on the older industrial 36" saws, my research showes that they all ran crowned tires and that they simply tracked the blade in the center. Bottom line from my research shows that crowned wheels track blades in the center, flat top wheels off the edge, except for less that 1/4 " blades


lou

[Mike Wilkins]

The instructions that came with my Laguna LT18 states that some blades
are supposed to run with the teeth just off the front of the wheel. This is
with the 1" and larger blades; the 1/4" blades track in the middle of the
wheel, with adjustments to the guides as needed.
Nothing wrong with running the teeth off the edge. May help with the life
of the tires as well. Always check with the manufacturer if you have
specific questions in this regard. Better safe than sorry.

[lou sansone]

The instructions that came with my Laguna LT18 states that some blades
are supposed to run with the teeth just off the front of the wheel. This is
with the 1" and larger blades; the 1/4" blades track in the middle of the
wheel, with adjustments to the guides as needed.
Nothing wrong with running the teeth off the edge. May help with the life
of the tires as well. Always check with the manufacturer if you have
specific questions in this regard. Better safe than sorry.


dear mike and others
3 years ago when I bought my laguna they did seem to indicate in the promo video that having the teeth hang off the tire was the recommended way. It seems that the most recent manuals are different. Laguna has changed its position on tracking to show that they now recommend center tracking on all blades.
please refer to page 25.
http://www.lagunatools.com/images/16hd-37_bandsaws.pdf
respectfully
lou

[Richard Wolf]

I find it odd that with all the intelligent and informed people on this site that Mike Cutler is only addressing Jim and Mark. I know they are both, very responsive and well informed individuals, but whats the matter Mike, you don't like the rest of us?

Richard

[Nick Mitchell]

I find it odd that with all the intelligent and informed people on this site that Mike Cutler is only addressing Jim and Mark. I know they are both, very responsive and well informed individuals, but whats the matter Mike, you don't like the rest of us?

Richard

But Richard, surely you know that on the internet, a mans' opinion and expertise ain't worth diddly until he has 2000 posts. ;) :D

[Mike Cutler]

Richard. I intended no slight at all, to any member of this board on this subject.
The only reason that the post was directed at Jim and Mark, was simply that they were the members that I remebered had posted this info within the bodies of one of their posts.
I was initially going to PM them, but I thought that an articulate discussion on the subject would make for a good thread, that anyone and everyone could participate in, exchange thoughts and ideas, and we would all benefit.
From the responses and info contained in the replies, I believe it was a good thread.
As far as underestimating the intelligence of the members of this board. No way bro', I've read a lot of the bios of the members, and there are some seriously intelligent and educated people on this forum, as well as creative in a lot more endeavors than just woodworking.
I understand that Nick's reply was was meant in jest and good fun, but I don't care if someone is posting to their first thread or their ten thousandth, everyone has something to contribute, to teach and learn. The interactive nature of this board allows everyone to benefit whether they post or not.
If we ever got to the point that someone was intimidated or hesitant to post, or disagree simply because someone elses post count was higher, then I would ask that the post counts be removed.
Sorry for sounding so preachy and long winded, but if you had that question so did someone else, so it is important to me that I answer it honestly.
Once again Richard I meant no slight, and I apologize if my post made you or anyone else feel excluded.

Ken. If this thread causes any animosity or I was wrong to have used that subject heading, please remove it.

[Jim Becker]

Mike, perhaps to make future searches easier, you can edit your original post's title to reflect the subject material. Only "you" can do that!

[Richard Wolf]

Mike, no slight taken.

Richard