chicken or the egg?

[Michael Gibbons]

Before anyone gives me any slack,I want to say I'm fairly new to the woodworker thing. Watching too many episodes of Norm got me started. Now that I have quite a few machines in my basement, I've realized that I need hand tools. I'm even signed up to take some classes. But I need a bench. Does any one have an opinion on the benches from Ulmia, Deifenbach, Hoffman& Hammer and Sojberg? How about Waldmann? price is no object. I'd rather spend time building other things than a bench so it would be faster to buy.:confused:

[Dan Moening]

price is no object

Whoa now, go easy there, fella. Don't want to hurt yourself on your first post. :D

Welcome Aboard!

I haven't used any of those {nor seen them in person} but I have seen {but not used} the Lie-Nielsen benches:

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/benches.html

They are quite customizable to your requirements {within reason}.

[Jim Becker]

Welcome, Michael! And Dan is very correct...be really careful with that "money is no object" thing...there are lots of folks who will be drooling to spend your fortune!

As to the bench, all of those names are good. What you need to do is pick the bench that best fits the kind of work you do relative to size and vice style. I'm only an occasional Neander, but I know that to be true for a fact. Benches are very personal things. If you are just plain not sure of that, build a simple bench with a simple face vice to use for awhile (a weekend project if you use a double or triple layer of MDF for the field) and try to get in front of various bench styles in stores, training facilities and other woodworker's shops. You can always use the simple bench later as an auxiliary work surface!

[Alan Turner]

Shame you were not here a month ago; I was selling a custom made one.

Welcome to SMC.

[Roy Wall]

Shame you were not here a month ago; I was selling a custom made one.

Welcome to SMC.

Make another one Alan!!!:)

Micheal - good to have you aboard!!

If you or another SMC'er doesn't make the bench......I'd vote for the Dieffenbach Ultimate American for commercially made....

[Mark Stutz]

Michael,
Welcome to the Creek. These guys are good at helping one to spend money! :D :eek: Of those benches you listed, I have a Sjoberg. Agood basic bench, but if you plan to do much hand work, especially planeing, it is not heavy enough, nor are the vises substantial enough--rack to much. I have seen the Lie-Nielsen, but not used it. Looks like a VERY substantial and well made bench.
I have been struggling with the buy vs. make as well, but will probably make one, more for the experience and to practice techniques, rather than price. When all is said and done, I'm not sure there is that much differnce.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Welcome to the 'Creek Michael!

[Robert Tarr]

Michael,

I have used the LN bench(s) and find it very well suited for Neander type work. I am a tall guy (6'3") so the one very nice part of the LN bench is, you can customize it to your needs (and size.) You have your choice of vises,hardware and configuration (I am also a lefty, which throws in a few twists to "standard" benches.) One other option is the Noden "adjust-a-bench" It is a variable height bench that is suited for medium duty Neander work (remember I am a big guy and can walk most benches across the floor while scrub planing.) and can easily be adapted to use in the power shop (cheaper than the others you mention as well.)

All things considered, if you are set on buying, I would chose the LN if you are committed to Neander work, as it has the most flexability when ordering and is price competitive with the others you list. If you are not going to do a lot of neander type work (just the random smoothing and dovetailing etc.) I would seriously consider giving Jeff Noden a call.

Take care.

Robert

P.S. Welcome to the group....lots of knowledge around here.

[Alan Turner]

With regard to Robert's comment about the Noden adjustable leg set, on the two benches I am now building, I am putting on the Noden adjustable leg set. One is my bench (teacher's bench) for the new teaching studio, and the other is for a fellow creeker, and he selected this leg set as well, although I offered to build him a set of legs that will not sway (as in the bench I built that we are using to build the present benches).

I have watched Steve Latta work on his Federal inlay stuff a number of times, and he uses a bench on top of bench, with a permanant second small WW vise mounted on the top bench, for all of the close work becuase he says it hurts his back otherwise. I find that for close in work, such as cutting DT's, or routing, the bending over can get to you after a few hours, and I don't even have a bad back. The leg set is $389, which is not bad if you look at the cost of time and materials to build a strong leg set. Mine has four M&T's with captured nuts, four M&T's (through and wedged) and four large mid span bridle joints, plus all that 12/4 stock. Not hard work, but it takes a while.

It will be interesting to see what I can do in terms of building out under the bench. I don't like an under-bench cabinet, but do like a shelf for scraps, winding sticks, bench top accessories, etc. Looks like I will be getting my metal drill bits out.

If you go the L-N route, I would guess that you can order it without legs, and just add the Noden legs, and that the total price will not be at much variance, but that is only a guess as I have not discussed this with LN.

[Jim Becker]

Of those benches you listed, I have a Sjoberg. Agood basic bench, but if you plan to do much hand work, especially planeing, it is not heavy enough, nor are the vises substantial enough--rack to much.

Mark, Sjoberg also makes heavy benches that are not like the ones sold by Woodcraft and others. They are not inexpensive either!

-------

As to the Noden Adjust-A-Bench, I own it and really like the flexibilty. But the one thing I'm going to do to greatly improve it is to build a heavy cabinet to replace the simple stretchers and change/adjust the way that the top is currently fastened to the legs...a little too much movement right now.

[Mark Singer]

Michael I have the Diefenbach "Ultimate American" it is very big and solid and I like the way it is layed out...


http://www.workbenches.com/images/BenchColor/AmericanOpenDrawers.jpg

[Mike Holbrook]

I have an old worn bench, very simple, that I made long ago and a small Hoffman and Hammer. I like the HH bench a great deal considering its small size. I will eventually make a large bench and use the small HH for small stuff. My shop is in three rooms so I kinda want a bench in at least two rooms. The old bench will probably go in a building that we use in our business.

Another place to get benches and many other things as well is Lee Valley:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&cat=1&p=41637

Another way to go is to buy a bench top already made and add the exact: legs, vises, shelves drawers etc. that you want. Many places that sell benches will also sell pre made bench tops. Gluing and leveling all that hard wood can be kinda challenging for a new guy IMHO.

[Michael Gibbons]

Thanks for all the input folks. I must have come on a little strong for my first post. You see it's not that I'm rich or anything like that, it's just that I hate buying junk and I would rather have my family go without food, electricity and heat for a top notch tool:D. I contacted Michelle at Lie-Neilsen. Even though she said they are still on the learning curve on the benches, that is probably the way I'll go. I try to buy American.

[Ed Hardin]

Michael, Welcome. I too have the small Sjoberg table and it is light. However, it has a shelf under it on which I place many many clamps. It does weight it down and helps a great deal. Since I have a very small space, I had no choice. This summer I'll be adding 20 feet or so, God Willing. I agree with you. I too buy the very best I can afford even if I have to wait and save. Buy very good and cry once. Buy cheap and cry twice.